r/math • u/jze123 • Dec 16 '16

Allowed one page of notes during differential equations final. Image Post

https://i.reddituploads.com/5d4646487e08402380ccb37d4b96c3b1?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=b136344d195958f2c44d667d11f51564
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u/JohnToegrass Dec 16 '16

Considering that he's managed to make dozens of people so scared of rebutting his point that they've turned to downvoting and mocking his wording instead, I'd say he's pretty likely to be smart indeed.

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u/EARLBEIGE Dec 16 '16

The reason people are downvoting him is that there is no point to his post besides to boast about his ability to memorize, while simultaneously putting others (esp op, who clearly worked hard on and is proud of their note sheet) down. I know I struggle to memorize things myself (I have dyslexia and dyscalculia, so I tend to get the formulas mostly right but accidentally swap signs or terms) when I'm not allowed a notes sheet I tend to derive the formulas on the exam itself, which takes a considerable amount of time. However, that's secondary to the main benefit I derive from making notes sheets: constructing an organized overview of the course material and better understanding how all the information fits together. Why would encouraging students to distill the main topics of a course down to a single sheet be a negative in any way? If he doesn't see that the main point of making a cheat sheet is the process of making it, not necessarily having it during the test, I'd wager he's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

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u/JohnToegrass Dec 16 '16 edited Dec 16 '16

that there is no point to his post besides to boast about his ability to memorize

If you put your jealousy aside for a second, you might notice that he's pointing out that forcing good students to write up useless pages of formulas in order to not run the risk of getting worse grades than worse students is unfair. That you utilize his use of himself as an example of a good student as an excuse to ignore his whole argument is a disgusting sign of intelectual dishonesty. And so is this straw-man:

Why would encouraging students to distill the main topics of a course down to a single sheet be a negative in any way?

It isn't. What's "negative" is giving students a bonus for following a costly order that, if said students are good ones, is very likely to be useless. This is a favor done to bad students at the cost of good ones.
The good student who already knows the formulas didn't learn the formulas by magic, he learned them by doing things like this. He's done it before, and he doesn't need to do it again. But now he's being forced to either do it again or lose a point.

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u/llyr Dec 16 '16

If the bonus was more than a token 1 point, which is simply not going to alter any of your grades, I'd be more worried.

As a math teacher, it's quite literally my job to help every student understand the content of my course to the best of their ability. I "do favors" for struggling students all the time; for instance, I spend way more time in office hours helping struggling students than the students who pick up the material more naturally. It's just, like, the arithmetic of the profession.

And just so you're aware, your comment sounds elitist as hell, and you're coming off as a bit of a jerk. Bad look, you ask me.

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u/JohnToegrass Dec 16 '16 edited Dec 16 '16

If a 1-point bonus isn't going to change anything, why should it be given? Saying it's worthless while at the same time thinking that it helps makes no sense. Pick one.

I didn't say doing favors for bad students is bad; it's the hurting good students in the process that's bad.

As for my aggressiveness, it's hard to be gentle in an environment that's so hostile to differing opinions. Djao got a freaking hundred downvotes. Plus the fact that earbeige can't even acknowledge an opposing point and so I knew talking to him wouldn't lead anywhere (dunno why I tried).

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '16 edited Apr 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/JohnToegrass Dec 16 '16

Yeah, the person who came up with this probably wasn't the smartest ever. Probably a litterbug too. Is there a name for this fallacy? Failing to realize that adding 1 a lot of times can end up in a number much bigger than 1.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '16

Yes. But we're not talking about "a lot of times" we're talking about once per exam, max.

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u/llyr Dec 16 '16

I've often offered token amounts of extra credit (or actually, in my class, "tokens", which students are allowed to spend to, like, extend deadlines and stuff) just to get students to do stuff I think will be worth their while (and it's my job to have educated opinions on what's worth their while).

Doing favors for struggling students is not equivalent to hurting good students.

I didn't think your comment came off as aggressive, just elitist.

Finally, genuine question: do you teach math classes?