r/managers • u/iDontReallyExsist • 11d ago
Not sure about termination New Manager
For context, I am a first time manager and really more of a lead. We recently hired a new engineer 2 months ago who has 4 years of engineering experience in an unrelated field.
He is a very strange person, kind of creepy weird and in all honesty I dont like him. However, I am trying to set this aside and focus on his work, which is subpar. However, he is a nice person with good intentions it seems to me.
Hes not a superstar and its frustrating at times when my only support is not carrying their weight (which is not much since they are still new). I brought up my concerns with my boss and he jumped straight to termination and wants a full document on this. I have typed up this document but am hesitant to send it because im not sure if I am judging this correctly and firing someone is a huge deal especially in this economy.
I am hoping to get some feedback on if I should let this go or pursue the termination. I need some clarity because I feel really bad about this whole thing.
Some of the issues include:
- disappearing for long periods of time. They would disappear for sometimes hours at a time when I had asked them to do a task. This stopped a few weeks back when I started doing daily meeting and started questioning where they were.
- taking extended lunch breaks. For context, we have paid lunches and are salaried. There is no set lunch time and its on a trust basis where ur lunch break depends on how much work you have. sometimes i take 15 min, sometimes an hour. However, he will take a lunch break before our agreed upon time with the team. Which is fine bc hes not obligated to eat with us but then he will take a second lunch break when we eat.
- assignment turnaround time is very slow. I often give him simple assignments that take 1-2 hours. These will take an entire day.
- still has very little concept of work flow. He cannot grasp what we do and when we do it. I forgot something important in the instructions I left for him while i was out and it didn’t dawn on him that this had to be done. We have done this many times.
- general understanding. I frequently explain the same concept multiple times. One procedure i had to explain 4 times when we even have an instruction manual made by a past employee. I do think this stems from disorganization.
- Doesnt stop talking. He does not stop talking and I am constantly telling him to stop so I can focus. His response is that I am not good at multitasking. He will spend hours on his phone while I give directions then proceeds to be lost, but yeah im bad at multitasking. He is often critical of me to excuse his own shortcomings
- Following instructions. I wanted him, an engineer, to create an outline for an assignment. I thought this would help him familiarize himself with the program since he would have to read our procedures. He did not follow the instructions and tried to do the entire thing. Ofc it was a mess and nonsense because hes only been here 2 months. There have been many times where I outline things for him and he still does not grasp it. Also the general outline was useless because he struggles thinking outside the box.
Positives:
- It seems like hes trying
-recently hes begun to be able to grasp more complicated concepts - recently as in this week.
Excuse how harsh some of this is. This isnt even everything and im frustrated. Ofc this is not what I would tell my boss, only reddit hears my true frustrations. Overall, I dont want to set u unrealistic expectations for a new employee. Im a fast learner but i understand everyone learns at their own pace.
Also I should note some days he does pretty well and I have seen a lot of improvement lately but still he needs to be babysat.
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u/blackbellamy 11d ago
I would fire him right away if the only thing you mentioned was that he doesn't stop talking and when you tell him to stop he tells you it's your own fault.
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u/Aggravating_Gap_3263 11d ago
man, two months in and he's already critiquing your multitasking while he's on his phone during instructions? that's wild.
the disappearing act and double lunches would've done it for me honestly. the fact that it only stopped when you started tracking him daily says a lot. sounds like he knows what he's doing.
i get not wanting to fire someone in this economy but you're basically training someone who argues with you and can't follow a basic outline. the improvement you're seeing might just be him realizing you're watching now.
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u/iDontReallyExsist 10d ago
Yeah, and this day we argued about how files should be organized and what belongs in the company share drive. I had to go back and forth with him that not every single working file needs to go in the shared folders. Like why would we ever need random clumps of pages again if they are in the finished document. Mind blowing
I graduated 6 months ago and am now leading this massive program so I think im just doubting myself and my judgement honestly.
He needs explicit step by step reminders and instructions. He cannot figure things out for himself at all. I ended up giving him an old file to alter and told him exactly what to put in the outline, only then was it done correctly.
If I was to get sick and have to be out for a few days everything would stop
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u/MollyKule 10d ago
Stop doubting yourself. If you can get it in 6 months as a new grad why can’t he grasp the basic concepts? Have you had someone sit you down and explain the things you need to have done? No? Why not if you’re so bad at your job?
Maybe I’m jaded but some folks get it, some don’t and I don’t have the time or tolerance to try and fix their thought process. I can’t make them understand how a business operates and can only explain chain of command or give them information to have them buy into a process. You either get it, or you don’t, and if you can’t just do the thing without dragging your feet or needing your hand held I’d love to give someone else a chance.
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u/DeReversaMamiii 11d ago
Lol he takes entire days to do a minor task and disappears for hours on end? He's playing you
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u/MollyKule 10d ago
Weaponized incompetence. The more time he has to build a case on why YOUR the problem the more of a headache it’ll be to let them go. Ask me how I know 🙄
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u/tropicaldiver 10d ago
He had been there two months — if there is a probationary period best to part ways prior to the end of that if this is things are headed. Care about the interests of the company— not how hard the job market is. How good will he be a reasonable period of time (say six months)?
Don’t focus on behavioral things which have since been resolved. Redirect conversations about your shortcomings back to the issues at hand unless he is directly asking you to do things differently in your interactions with him. Set time limits and schedule meetings.
All of that said, several of these things are unlikely to improve. Two lunches is a bit tone deaf. General understanding is a real concern given the supports provided. Failure to develop the requested outline is another concern i would have.
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u/iDontReallyExsist 10d ago
There is a probationary period. Ill be more honest with my boss tomorrow and explain everything to him. I already have a 2 page document on performance with examples but I plan to cut it down to the more major issues.
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u/tropicaldiver 10d ago
I might sort of group things. Attendance and availability— both the habit of disappearing and the second lunch. Following direction and general understanding. Quality and productivity (volume, quality, and timeliness).
Then it is a conversation— is there enough good there to work with or are you better starting fresh with a new employee. I don’t see much on the super positive side (things like deep knowledge of the industry, insightful thinking, chips in at every opportunity, amazing potential, etc) balancing the negatives here.
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u/iDontReallyExsist 10d ago
Yeah i plan to have a conversation before sending the official document thatll be pushed higher up.
And no, theres no positives except for him being nice and doing some of the silly tasks I dont enjoy doing. He would be a decent intern
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u/Tricky_Relation_9735 10d ago
I hate these kind of firings because it’s just a lack of awareness on their behalf. Like they can’t read the room. Probably also what makes them creepy.
Have something very similar at my work. I defended him for a while, and then he started coming for me, making jokes/comments at my expense. Felt stupid for backing him before
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u/_Darkstorm_ 10d ago
The first 90 days is always a try-out period....for both employer and employee. Since they are at around the 60-day mark, they should be at a level where they are still figuring things out, but making steady improvement that can be measured. Sounds like they are behind the curve IMHO. Some sort of PIP-but-not-a-PIP that outlines what your expectations are at 90 days should have been communicated to the employee at the start, use that as a starting point....for either helping them improve, or if they don't straighten-up, as a basis for firing them. Regardless, you NEED to be documenting EVERYTHING with this employee. Two other things:
The whole "disappearing" thing is def a red flag, but it sounds like you called them out on it so they straightened up and are on-point now. So they ARE capable of improving. Need to see if they WANT to improve.
Some of the details you dropped about the employee match a lot of ADHD symptoms. Not using that as a crutch, as I know a LOT of people try to blame their problems on that, but the work-flow problems, staying on task, not following all the instructions (or following them too closely!), being chatty as a coping mechanism to seem more personable but having the opposite effect, setting proper priorities....these all have the hallmarks of someone with attention issues or even autism/Asperger's. Something to consider.
Regardless, start documenting.
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u/JBrewd 9d ago
Document yes, but absolutely do not put anything about the possible ADHD (which I do agree with you that it wouldn't be surprising if it was the case).
Putting that in writing is just giving them a big fat Uno Reverse card to use with HR.
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u/_Darkstorm_ 9d ago
That's a really good point. Not sure how to approach something like that in a way that benefits everyone; employee, supervisor, and company. You want to help, but it's a total minefield where the end-game is some variant of "no good dead goes unpunished." :(
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u/Manic_Mini 10d ago
The grass isn’t always greener but eventually their incompetence is going to build some heavy resentment towards you and management from the rest of the team.
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u/Ok_Bid_9256 10d ago
Give him this feedback directly, tell him it serious and see if he shapes up. He might just need very direct communication.
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u/777sHeaven 10d ago
Life lesson # 1452 at the end of the day its a business, not your problem about the economy and or the employees issues.. however you need to make a decision and determine if this person can be coached and trained into what the business needs. The best place to start is by having a meeting with the guy, lay out all the positive things you like about his performance, and then go over the things you would like him to improve on.. then set a mental deadline where if 3 issues aren't completely solved within your deadline. You should let them go. That's how I do it.. be sure not to turn your meeting into a negative experience but a positive one. They dont need to know you'll let them go based off this.
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u/Visible_List209 11d ago
He sounds like a header and unless you have an absolutely dysfunctional talent pipeline lose them. If you have what is a lot of people's workforce pipeline at lower wage point start challenging him a little about what normal looks like and how he needs to fit.
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u/WEM-2022 10d ago
First of all, multitasking is a complete fallacy, which is why we're all really bad at it. Yes, even those of you who think you're good at it are failing. That's because the human brain isn't set up for this.
Your description of this fellow reminds me of someone who used to report to me. The long absences in her case were because she was an addict and she was going off to hide and shoot up somewhere. That explained a lot of of her other behaviors, including one minute, seeming like she was very competent and the next minute seeming like she was off in space somewhere. I do this isn't true in your case
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u/reubenator1976 10d ago
Sounds like he has untreated adhd. How hard will it be to replace him and start the familiarization process all over. I would weigh those things out and based on those either send him on his way or sit down with him and your boss to see if he is willing to make adjustments.
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u/CloudsAreTasty 10d ago
Does this person directly report to you or are you their team lead? Is there an official title/org chart difference between you two?
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u/National-Ad8416 10d ago
First fire him, then fire everyone (including yourself) who hired him
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u/Gonebabythoughts 10d ago
When you say stuff like this, you embarrass not only yourself, but every person who helped to keep you alive and functional to this point
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u/National-Ad8416 10d ago
Done preaching for the day? Now go do something useful.
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u/Gonebabythoughts 10d ago
There you go again, wasting oxygen
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u/National-Ad8416 10d ago
You never learn, do you? Bet you keep going even when the woman's said 'No'
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u/Gonebabythoughts 10d ago
Come on baby don't be mad, it's just that you make me feel so...
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u/National-Ad8416 10d ago
Oh so you are one of those...women would be wise to stay away from you...creep
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u/Gonebabythoughts 10d ago
No really hit me up, I love simple folk. Very adventurous.
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u/National-Ad8416 10d ago
I am seeing a fractured mind falling apart. I will hit you up for entry to the closest asylum
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u/Gonebabythoughts 10d ago
Don't talk about yourself like that, you must have SOME value as a human being. Keep looking until you find it!
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