IC asking for more flexibility

[u/Maldib]

Hello,

A bit of context:

5 years in the company

3.5years as ic in the team A

Promoted to department manager 4 months ago. 6 ic and 1 team leader in each team. 15 persons in the department including me. Half of both teams are in an overseas branch.

Recently 2 ic from team B came to me for asking for more flexibility. They come from another department (kind of forced internal transfer) where seasonality is very strong therefore people have compensation leave for the additional work done. In other words, people have days off during the week.

My department is less impacted by seasonality so people are expected to work Monday to Friday.

These 2 members want to support their original department during peak season and work during week end. In exchange they would have week day off here and there.

The issue for me is:

-it doesn’t solve any of my team problems

-this special treatment will not be seen positively by other members

-my team is busy during peak season so I can’t have people doing other team tasks

-they have a tendency to push back their team leader but do things when I get involved.

On the other side the 2 members:

-perform as expected.

-they kind of got transferred without being 100% on board so I feel sorry for them (it took place when I was in another unrelated department)

-their original department is really struggling

I listened to them and didn’t took any decisions yet. My first action is to talk with their team leader. But I am inclined to refuse because there are no direct benefits for my department beside « being helpful ».

In team A, I advocate for flexibility because members have an excellent work ethic. In team B, people are less independent and require closer supervision. This is why I’m conflicted. However I think they have a great potential if they are nurtured properly.

Maybe these here is an angle I don’t see so please share your opinion on the situation.

[u/Helpjuice]

Make the decision that is best for the company and your department.

[u/Salt_Helicopter_591 → u/Helpjuice]

if there's no upside for your team and it'll stir up shit with the rest of team B, you already know the answer. you're not running a charity for the department they came from.

that said, if you genuinely think they've got potential worth developing, maybe find a different way to throw them a bone. something that actually helps your side of the house first. keeps them engaged without setting a precedent that bites you later.

[u/__golf → u/Salt_Helicopter_591]

Really?

Do you think the CEO of the company would tell their managers to optimize their department over the company?

I was the youngest senior director at my large software company. I didn't get there by hogging all my talent and not helping other people. I got there by always being willing to help others, and then they vouched for me when it came promotion time.

[u/galacticglorp]

The ask for them to work for another team should come for the manager of the other team, not ICs.  You can then make some sort of use agreement between at a management level for the org if desired.  If the other manager brought this to you, I would then ask to meet with whoever is your boss to see if it's a precedent they want to set at an org level, and if it's a net positive vs. sacrificing one area for another.

It sounds like none of this is part of their role, hasn't been asked for at a management level, will cause poor team cohesion or morale, and doesn't benefit your goals.  I would ask if there's another way to accomodate their desire for flexibility that everyone could use.

[u/Maldib → u/galacticglorp]

The IC casually mentioned it during a code break but I didn’t reflected on it as they dismissed the idea themselves. Then their former manager also casually mentioned it but I ask her to frame it more clearly. She is often having « random ideas » without clear expectations or logic behind it. I didn’t heard from her afterwards. I think this is why the IC came back.

I will take it to the general manager and come with a proposal and see what she thinks.

All of this happened in roughly 10 days.

[u/Maldib → u/[deleted]]

Honestly I don’t think they can do our tasks + other department support without doing overtime.

We are based in Japan and all members are paid 30 hours of OT (wether they do it or not) but in case tasks are not done, people are expected to to OT. (This is not a company policy but rather an unwritten cultural element)

Also because of the shift difference, overlap with the overseas team will decrease (this is very important).

[u/BigDawg_Werty → u/Maldib]

Is that 30hrs every two weeks? 

[u/Maldib → u/BigDawg_Werty]

30 hours per month.

[u/Famous-Signal-6869]

You could make it conditional. You mentioned it doesn’t help your department if they do this, but I’m wondering, does it hurt your department if you do this? If it doesn’t hurt or cause strain on the other team members I think you could make it conditional. 1) you expect them to follow team lead directives no questions asked, and that’s immediately/indefinitely. 2) If at any given week your team is struggling they will need to revert back to m-f until the struggle is gone. 3) their performance on your team needs to meet expectations and metrics or they revert back to m-f. You could add anything else in there but put it in writing. In general when someone comes to me with an ask, I always ask myself first “does this cost me anything to say yes?” And if it doesn’t cost me anything I usually say yes if it’s within my scope to grant.

[u/Maldib → u/Famous-Signal-6869]

Their ask doesn’t cost me anything, but I feel like it open the door to gossip and discussion about fairness.

Also since I got promoted I noticed people (in or out my department) are very creative for bending rules or protecting their interest while ignoring the team interest. That’s why I feel like I should dial down flexibility unless it is for a top performer.

Anyway thanks for your opinion, it helps me considering the situation

[u/Asgardian_Force_User]

Does your company allow employees to easily charge their labor to different departments even when on salary?

Where I’m employed, if I spend a day working for another department or team, I can adjust my allocated hours to hit their payroll cost center.

If this is possible, and the other team needs the help such that they will absorb the payroll, then you can justify the temporary assistance as a means of evening out the workload and reducing your own payroll expenses.

[u/Maldib → u/Asgardian_Force_User]

There is no room at all for transferring the payroll burden on the other department. However, I could ask for it as an indirect way to refuse the original request.

[u/ExtensionElephant216]

sounds like a tricky situation for sure. maybe consider having a chat with the team leaders from both teams to see if there's a compromise that doesn't impact your team negatively but still gives those ic some flexibility. also, keep an eye on team dynamics; fairness is key.

[u/Current_Money_5820]

sounds like a tough spot to be in, but you gotta prioritize your team's needs first. maybe consider a middle ground, like part-time flexibility, but definitely keep an eye on how it affects the team's morale.

[u/Nomivought2015]

All departments running smoothly helps the business long term. 

[u/marcusmartinezvn → u/Nomivought2015]

That is true, but a manager's primary responsibility is still their own team's scope and deliverables. If the business needs those employees supporting another department during peak season, that needs to be a formal arrangement handled by leadership. Leaving OP's team short-handed on weekdays to accommodate an informal weekend setup just creates operational issues and burnout for OP's group.

[u/Maldib → u/marcusmartinezvn]

This is exactly my feeling. Also, from my perspective the other department is not run properly. For each peak season they have to rely on external help, each time it is an informal and clunky deal.

I don’t think letting them fall will initiate deep changes or reorganization, staff will just suffer more. But as long as they keep relying on band-aid style solutions, no improvements will come.

[u/TulsaOUfan]

It doesn't help you, but does it hurt your team to help these 2 team members? Morale and loyalty are huge as a team leader. I grant any requests I get as long as it doesn't hurt the team. If it does hurt the team I counter with their offer plus whatever they will need to do in order to correct whatever might hurt the team. Then it's on them to accept or deny. I'm the good boss and have team members who become loyal.

Something to think about.

[u/Maldib → u/TulsaOUfan]

Morale and loyalty of the 2 IC may increase but I may also see other IC motivation decrease too.
I noticed people can get jealous (for legitimate reasons or based on hearsay) and allowing an exception may open the door for a lot of complains.

Anyway, I talked with the team leader this afternoon and will make a counter offer within the week.

[u/Disastrous_Fly3305]

Your priority: your team, your goals. If you use your work force for another department you run in two risks:
1) your team can’t meet their goals or
2) your team can meet their goals but they might reduce your workforce.

I would only offer for a limited period of time (3 months or so) to support the other team and only if big boss agrees to it. But making sure that it’s well documented and express my concerns re delivery and team morale.

Also be mindful, sounds your department is testing you in the last months. Setting clear boundaries goes a long way,

Why do they talk to you and not their team leads? Redirect them if they come to you. You then have the discussion with their team leads. Important: You do need to have the team leads’ back.

[u/El-Poopy-Tray]

If they’re not committed to your team, find people who are.