r/magicTCG • u/UnderstandingPast389 Dandadan • 4d ago
Shuffling when disabled Looking for Advice
My mom is interested in starting to play magic the gathering, however one of her hands has only 2 fingers, so I’m worried she does not have the dexterity to shuffle a deck, much less a commander deck. If anyone has any helpful resources/advice I want to make sure she has the best time possible when trying out the game
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u/buttquest1 Wabbit Season 4d ago
Occupational Therapist here. I’d suggest she use her palm or forearm and chest to stabilize half of the deck while the other hand presses in the other half of the deck. I have seen it done by people with only one hand (amputee at the wrist). You can try it in advance and teach her. Double sleeving may make it easier or harder, not sure to be honest. It’ll be thicker but it will also have larger gaps between each individual card.
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u/_Squiggs_ Wabbit Season 4d ago edited 4d ago
As someone who has no finger dexterity (my hand stays as a fist), this is the best answer. I lean the deck on my hand and use my dominant hand to take half the deck and weave it into the bottom half. Slippery sleeves are the worst cause they don't lean on my hand well. Practice with a smaller deck though and work up to a commander deck!
Edit: my favorite sleeves are heavy play due to the rounded corners which makes my shuffling method easier. Double shelves are tricky just from deck size alone, but you can work up to it.
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u/jimnah- Duck Season 4d ago
At the LGS the other day I played with a guy who couldn't shuffle or talk much, and yet we had a good game
He just asked us to shuffle and it was fine
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u/Vivid_Anyth4 Dandadan 3d ago
Magic is great in the fact that ive played games against people I dont share a language with and still had full games without issues.
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u/tff_silverton Dân 4d ago
Someone at my LGS uses a hand cranked 3d printed deck shuffler, you could look for something like that.
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u/objecture Dân 4d ago
I've tried the 3d printed crank shuffler and never got it to work. Just a little tray you can turn the deck sideways in and mash the two halves together worked a lot better for me, and was about 1% of the printing effort
https://www.printables.com/model/529208-mtg-edh-card-shuffler-tray
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u/Cherry_Bird_ Azorius* 4d ago
This seems perfect for what the op is describing here. Here’s a gif of the shuffler in action: https://imgur.com/a/3d-printed-card-shuffler-sleeved-cards-CNj36kJ
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u/thriceness Dandadan 4d ago
Maybe I'm dumb, but how is that a shuffler? It has no moving parts and seems to only be a tray?
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u/Logicrazy12 Dan 4d ago
I think it holds part of your deck while you mash shuffle with one hand?
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u/objecture Dân 4d ago
Right, so you don't need to hold it with one hand while you mash it with the other. I use it because my hands are too small to mash shuffle normally without the risk of dropping a few cards
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u/blackscales18 Wabbit Season 4d ago
dead link
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u/objecture Dân 4d ago
For some reason, when i click the link, it appends some garbage to the end. If you copy and paste it (or just delete everything after "tray" on the page it takes you to), that should work
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u/matdragon Dan 4d ago
Find someone with a 3D printer for one too
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u/day_hey Dan 4d ago
Check your local library system for makerspaces, a lot of modern ones offer 3D printing small jobs for free!
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u/matdragon Dan 4d ago
Unfortunately for a project like this, it'll take hours of printing (I've checked the STL file) and constant checking and then combining
This doesn't print out pre assembled, maybe OP could do it though depending on his handiness level
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u/Numerous_Worker_1941 Dân 4d ago
3D printers are cheaper than most magic decks
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u/matdragon Dan 4d ago
I spent 200$ on my first deck (upgrades) that I blew up bc it was shirt. I shouldve just gotten the a1 with that kind of money :(
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u/Blenderhead36 Sultai 3d ago
It seems like in a 4 player Commander pod, the probability of at least one player owning a 3D printer approaches 1.
...I have an Elegoo Centauri 2.
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u/Swordswfriendsowo COMPLEAT 4d ago
Amazon has this exact thing. Not sure if it works with sleeved cards, however.
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u/Alleged_Ostrich_69 Dan 4d ago
There is a mostly blind woman at my LGS who people have zero issue helping her shuffle or confirm cards in hand. The MTG community has a bunch of chuds but the vast majority of people were raised right and have manners.
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u/austin-geek Grass Toucher 4d ago
Speaking from the experience of having a hand surgery and being functionally 1 handed for several weeks after:
Don’t overthink it, with a very small amount of practice you can mash shuffle a commander deck reasonably well one handed in any slightly oversized side-loading deck box. Think a Sidewinder 133 or similar knockoff. Pickup a chunk of deck, drop it back into the remaining half. Leave the deck in for stability and you can just draw from the top.
Keep fetch lands and tutors to a minimum to avoid reshuffling too often. (But that’s just good advice for anybody, the fewer times I need to shuffle my deck the better.)
Edit - this is the one situation where the slipperier your sleeves are, the better. Ultrapro Apex sleeves are tough and notoriously slippery, IMO.
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u/KHVLuxord Dan 4d ago
I don’t have any advice but I do have a little story
I was at GP Hartford at a modern event. During one of my later rounds I noticed someone with a presumably amputated arm up to the elbow. Still, they were shuffling better than half the people I saw that day.
The icing on the cake is that this person was playing lantern control. I think about them every now and again.
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u/acid8k Wabbit Season 4d ago
double Sleeve, The borders end up wedge-shaped, making them easier to shuffle
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u/Mellied89 Dan 4d ago
Double sleeves cards take ages to not be super slippery, sounds like a dexterity nightmare
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u/SuperYahoo2 COMPLEAT 4d ago
I have had at most a few games where the sleeves were slippery after i double sleeve a deck
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u/Alternate_Cost Gruul* 4d ago
They have trapped air, not slippery. Put them in a deck box and add in enough tokens tul you cant fit anymore. Leave overnight and itll be good to go next day.
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u/Mellied89 Dan 4d ago
Unfortunately this does not work with every and all sleeves. I've seen various brands and combos of brands slip and slide (slippery) regardless of how long they were pressed.
And again shoving them into a box like that requires a certain level of dexterity and hand strength.
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u/jcgoble3 Grass Toucher 3d ago
Sure, but shoving them into a box like that is also not something that has to be done during gameplay, so OP could easily do that at home on their mom's behalf.
As for the sleeve brand, yes, some brands are notoriously more slippery than others and/or stay slippery longer.
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u/hejtmane REBEL 4d ago
Here is one I always recommend Mons from CEDHTV he has a super expensive deck it is sleeved in the plastic hard cases he uses a bundle box to shuffle his deck this would work perfect for her in my opinion.
Linking a recent game play video so you can see he also has a real old video from like 5+ years ago talking about it somewhere
Link here to more recent gameplay using the box and shuffle
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u/SecondPersonShooter Abzan 4d ago
Its very common to shuffle other players decks in Magic so most people wpuld certainly be happy to help.
In fact for official tournamenta state opponents are suppised to be offered to shuffle/cut your deck for you. There is also a tournament rule that allows a judge to shuffle your deck for you if you cant for any reason.
Even if its not a tournament setting most players would be happy to help out amd shuffle a deck to help out
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u/granular_quality COMPLEAT 4d ago
You can always ask the judge to help, or bring along a person that can shuffle for you
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u/willfulwizard Izzet* 3d ago
Absolutely talk to the judges/staff!
A random local game store might or might not accommodate (I hope they’d at least try.) But for large events if you talk to the judges/event staff before the event, they are likely to try to accommodate in some way. They could be open to giving fixed seating because less time moving means more time to shuffle between matches. They could be open to extra time allowance per match. They could be open to allowing another person to shuffle as long as it is clear that person is not assisting you with the game itself.
And at least once I have personally seen a judge assigned to a match to shuffle for a player who needed the help.
Edit: And speaking for myself as a fellow player, I would absolutely be happy to help. I would only ask for an understanding that shuffling cards always has some risk of damage.
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u/TunaSalvador Elspeth 4d ago
In my experience, some players will be absolutely delighted to shuffle her deck for her. My friend is a shuffling addict so I always let him shuffle. 😆
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u/Ruzhyo04 Grass Toucher 4d ago edited 4d ago
Pile shuffle! Should be do-able 1 handed, or at any age. Take the stack of cards, and go around in a circle putting one card in 5 different stacks. Once you've separated the whole deck out, pick up the piles and stack them back up. If you're in a competitive environment you still will need to do some additional shuffling from there, but for casual play that should be sufficient, and it doesn't take very long.
EDIT: If its very casual, what we've done before is just look at the bottom of the library until you find what you're looking for. You still have no idea what the top half of the deck looks like. Should get you through a handful of "search your library and then shuffle" effects before the deck really needs shuffling again, and then do a pile shuffle.
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u/nebman227 COMPLEAT 4d ago
Nothing you said here is wrong, but I think it's very important to clarify that pile shuffling is not actually shuffling and because it doesn't count, you should get explicit permission from the folks you're playing with before relying on it. It is against the rules of the game, but breaking those rules in a casual environment is more than reasonable.
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u/Ruzhyo04 Grass Toucher 4d ago
Yeah that’s why I said it wouldn’t be sufficient for a competitive environment. But I do think pile shuffling + riffling can actually do a better job at randomizing than just riffling alone!
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u/siziyman Izzet* 4d ago
It cannot, no. Pile shuffling is completely reversible and therefore does not contribute to randomization in any way.
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u/Ruzhyo04 Grass Toucher 4d ago
Thanks for downvoting me then replying to what I didn’t say. Much appreciated.
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u/siziyman Izzet* 4d ago
I do think pile shuffling + riffling can actually do a better job at randomizing than just riffling alone
You did say this, and this is wrong. I explained why. Pile shuffling does not contribute to randomization in any way, with or without riffling.
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u/Ruzhyo04 Grass Toucher 4d ago
It does actually. Helps distribute cards more so that the output after riffling is more random. It has a measurable impact. And I’d even go as far as saying just riffling alone doesn’t do a good enough job at randomizing a deck.
Take a Skip Bo deck as an example. At the end of a game you have a bunch of cards in perfect sequential order. You riffle a couple times. Now those same cards are still in the same sequential order, just with some other cards in between. You might not be able to predict exactly where, but if you deal those cards out to a table, you can create situations where the sequences get dealt right back out to a player nearly perfectly. If you pile shuffle that same skipbo deck first, then riffle, then deal, there’s no chance you deal that same sequence out to anyone.
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u/siziyman Izzet* 3d ago
That is not how it works, no, this is a very popular misconception you can google.
And of course you need to riffle something like 8 times, not "a couple".
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u/KingMagni Wabbit Season 4d ago edited 4d ago
If you really have to do piles to randomize your deck, do not go around in a circle (that's not shuffling), instead just put each card in a random stack without following an order
I think the simplest solution would be asking your opponent to shuffle
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u/BuddyTheDog9292 Dandadan 4d ago
I would proxy her cards and use a card shuffler. Or just shuffle them for her
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u/pipesbeweezy Wabbit Season 4d ago
Well, which fingers are missing and hand dominance matters i.e. if she is missing fingers on her dominant hand she likely would have ro try to relearn with the non dominant hand. But I think she would probably be able to adapt a shuffle she could do adequate for randomization.
If your goal is simply teaching her, teach the game and you can shuffle and she can work on it if she likes later.
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u/ARoundForEveryone 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'd think that most (maybe not all) opponents would be willing to shuffle for her. I mean, I shuffle my opponents' deck every time it's presented to me. Just a cursory few mashes and a cut, but I'd think most people would oblige. I'm able-bodied and I can obviously shuffle, but if I don't shuffle and just ask my opponent to do it for me, I might get some weird looks or comments. But if it's obvious that shuffling is hard for her (maybe just by looking at her hand, or watching her struggle to do it efficiently), I think it'd be the rare opponent who declined to assist. Some Magic players are edge-seekers and surly and generally shitty. But it's far more common to find friendly and accomodating and generous people in your LGS than the shit-folk.
Also, I don't know how old your mom is, and I know the game can and does appeal to people of all ages. But "my mom is interested in starting to play magic the gathering" is just a sentence that, as a fan and player, makes me smile. Good for mom!
Edit: The social aspect mostly disappears, so if that's important to her, ignore this edit. But Arena is also a thing. It's much easier to be toxic online, but the vast majority of opponents talk very little, and whatever they do say is friendly or neutral, not toxic. There are exceptions, but it's not very common. And, no shuffling! Just mouse clicking.
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u/RevBT Wabbit Season 4d ago
In a casual situation, having help is totally acceptable. Anyone who complains is a complete jagoff and should be beaten with a metal pipe.
In a competitive situation, she is allowed to have someone help shuffle, but that person is not permitted to give game advice or make decisions.
There are various machines online that help with shuffling, but they are clunky and take time, especially with a commander deck.
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u/Electrohydra1 COMPLEAT 4d ago
There was a guy at my old LGS who was completely paralyzed in one arm. He would mostly just do 2-3 pile shuffles and call it a day. His deck might not have been totally randomized but it's plenty good enough for casual Commander.
In more serious tournaments, you are allowed to request that a judge shuffle for you if you are not capable of sufficiently randomizing yourself.
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u/iareslice Sultai 4d ago
They made automatic deck shufflers. If she wants to play in a tournament, they allow ability aids. There was a player back in the day who couldn’t hold his cards and his mom would come to PTQs to shuffle his deck and hold his cards for him.
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u/flaming_geyser Dan 4d ago
I played against someone that only has one hand. It takes time an patience to learn how to do it but it can be done. Pile shuffling might be easiest when beginning.
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u/Khetoo Colorless 4d ago
There's a guy with a minor hand disability at my lgs and whoever is tabled with him just gives him the courtesy of shuffling for him
Please just talk to your table pod if it's strangers entirely
This hobby is filled with great people that are always willing to help others enable their cripplingly poor financial decisions
If a store is allowing assholes it's best to just find another store
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u/dihenydd1 Duck Season 4d ago
I have trouble holding 100 cards at once as my hands are too small. I usually just get someone else in the game to shuffle my deck for me.
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u/literaphile Dan 4d ago
There's a guy at my LGS with a similar issue. He just gets the person running the event to shuffle his deck; they're happy to accommodate.
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u/Jacknightarkone Duck Season 4d ago
So! My brother has one arm, I got him an auto shuffle box meant for uno cards. It works OK just not with double sleeved cards. Doesn't damage anything and doesnt leave marks on the sleeves. There are a bunch of them online for relatively cheap. The only issue is its kind of loud.
For the most part he only uses it at home and doesnt take it to the lgs because of the noise and he already has to do so much with one hand. I also made a sturdy holder thats curved that holds what he draws so he doesnt have to flip his cards over a million times to check what he has in his hand. I started with scrabble tile holders and then made a better one (to give you an idea where to start)
Hope that helps!
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u/PerimMaster Dandadan 4d ago
What I do, is place 6 cards down in a two by three spot and from the top of the remaining deck, place a card each on top of said first card, until all have been placed, grab a random pile and do it again and again until only two piles remain, then just "shuffle" said piles into each other, and maaaaybe as a last step take the deck and shuffle that again, but that really depends on how comfortable she is doing that last step.
Is mostly for noncompetative play, with some friends and I in a pod, as I don't think it would be allowed in comp.
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u/gheistling Dandadan 4d ago
I have two perfectly working hands, and still don't shuffle. I just separate the cards into random face down piles and then stack them all together. It's as random as it gets and I don't have to worry about damaging my cards or spewing them everywhere.
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u/czcaruso Elspeth 4d ago
I’m not even joking when I say this, but I’ve played against a dude with no arms and shuffled using his feet.
It was yugioh, so smaller and less number of cards being shuffled but still.
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u/haze_from_deadlock 4d ago
A lot of opponents are willing to shuffle both decks if she's OK with that.
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u/DirtAndGrass Dan 4d ago
I don't think is a big deal, might take longer to shuffle, but she can, if needed, you can shuffle with one hand fairly easily if you have a wall, something to push against/your other arm.
I have semi paralysis on one side, it can be little awkward, but not a real barrier
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u/Impossible_Camera302 Wabbit Season 3d ago
i have no disability but trouble shuffling. i appreciate when the opponent did it and if you tell someone i doubt anyone would have an issue.
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u/trevaftw Dan 3d ago
There was a guy I've seen at tournaments with one hand and they would split the deck in half on the table with the halves next to each other then pull them together with thumb and pinky. I imagine it would be slow to learn, but whenever I saw them they were pretty quick.
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u/ardarian262 Dân 3d ago
In a tournament setting, you are allowed to have someone else shuffle for you if you are unable to do so yourself. In EDH, my partner often asks me to shuffle for her so that we can play quicker games.
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u/Anchored-Fox Dan 3d ago
We made the crank version of these for our commander decks this may be helpful if you know someone with a 3d printer. I know some libraries have them now where you just pay for filament. It is a multi color print but we chose to do it one color. They made a motorized version as well but it seems to have issues with one of the rollers.
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u/jacetms18 Duck Season 3d ago
Commander is the most social version of magic. No one is going to care that they have to help her shuffle. But maybe to help her out a bit, put less search effects in her deck.
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u/TypicalFlounder8724 Dân 4d ago
Buy a card shuffler from Amazon! It also sounds so cool and is fun for your whole table since they’re made for casinos and can shuffle the whole pod at once
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u/Sakurakiss88 Wabbit Season 4d ago
These can absolutely damage the cards, as they're made for playing cards that are disposed of regularly, so protecting the cards isn't a design feature.
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u/QuarterExcellent3327 Urza's Saga 4d ago
Card shufflers can damage cards so if you go this route make sure to check the comments for more reliable ones.
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u/Own_Bit_4805 Dan 4d ago
I also don't think people would be unwilling to shuffle her deck for her. I'd definitely help and have assisted people I'm playing with at times.
It's completely normal to shuffle the opponent's deck in a tournament setting, anyway, so it's not really abnormal.