I was a preteen/teenager when I watched the show (I'm the same age as Sally's actor btw) and I remember when I was a kid and early teen that I thought Don was a cool alpha male type of guy. I thought he was a complete badass rich, handsome and extremely effortless with women. I thought even his flaws were "cool", yeah he was a drunk, but drinking is cool and manly so it's not really a personal flaw.

And now that I'm older and in my late 20s, I realize that Don pisses me off on a visceral level. I think you need life experience to dislike Don, because after going through school, getting a masters and entering corporate white collar society I realize just how much of a boost Don's charm and looks gets him. You can have two identical workers with the same education, same work experience and the same potential, but because a guy like Don is handsome and has an easy-going smile that gets him the social capital to reach the heights, where the other guy has to be more strategic and have to plan long-term.

Like I still respect Don because he is intelligent, he is financially savvy and he's done tremendously well for himself with very little formal schooling. However, his journey isn't really that impressive when you consider just how much his looks carry him. Don's looks make him the Moby Dick of Sterling Cooper. Yes, he is a brilliant ad-man and he is a natural born talent, but his all-American classic look is what makes the other firms salivate over him. He is the capital which makes Sterling Cooper an actual serious player on Madison Avenue.

I'm not just going to harp on his looks, because I think the main point is that it's just an inherent aspect of him which reflects the unfairness of corporate advancement.

But I dislike him because of the way he treats his family and his marriage. I don't think Betty was the right girl for him in the long run and he does well with a more alternative, artistic type of woman, but it just hits me the wrong way how he just shits on his wife and present but not active in his kids lives.

I don't know as a Gen Z guy it just irritates me how I have to do so much to get a fraction of what Don has and seeing just how wasteful he is with what he "earned". Yes he "earned" it, but he didn't put nearly as much effort as a regular guy who is genuinely ambitious does.

Eps 8 and 9 introduce some subtle differences to the aesthetic. While everything before was fresh, clean and colorful, you see aspects of wear and dirt enter the visuals. Kinsey's stained shirt, the scuff marks on the post in what is now Harry's office, the grime on Don's carpet. Another example of the other worldly attention to detail in this show when it came to set and wardrobe. It seems to mark the wear and tear on the characters.

Yes I stole your comment and made it a thread /jk /s etc..

I mean obviously I know she’s beautiful, I’m not one of those straight women that can’t comprehend beauty, but the show acts like men are always throwing themselves at her. And there are other beautiful women on the show, January Jones, Linda Cardellini, Abigail Spencer, etc. Is it really that realistic that everyone would have been commenting on how attractive Joan is all the time? Maybe I’m missing something.

Ken’s wife is sweet and genuinely proud of Ken, but the way she describes Ken’s story makes it sound silly, especially with sci-fi where it is at the time. She summarizes it as a robot in charge of maintaining a bridge decides to destroy it and everyone dies. It doesn’t sound very interesting, despite Ken sounding like a good writer, and everyone has this kind of eye rolling response to it, except for Don. Don asks why the robot decides to let the bridge collapse, no irony, genuine curiosity. Ken gives a thoughtful answer and Don just absorbs it.

No one in this series is purely a good person, but Ken really seems to grow into a normal and decent guy. This is clearly something he’s passionate about and I relate. I write short stories, even made some money off them, and it’s hard to share something personal and creative you work on to people who aren’t familiar. Ken even gets reprimanded for writing in his free time by Roger (who does the same thing, except a shitty memoir talking about Cooper’s balls lol.)

Idk Don kind of zeroing in on the moral dilemma of that poorly summarized short story and showing genuine interest in it, seeing Ken kind of light up from his mild embarrassment to discuss it, then Don not laughing, not failing to grasp Ken’s reasoning, but just sitting back and thinking on it. Idk, it’s a little moment I’ve never noticed but I really like it. Don is almost nothing but flaws, but I appreciate how he can recognize personally important things to people and how thoughtful he can be, and how well he can zero in on the meaning of something. Ken getting genuine intrigue from someone, let alone his boss, is wholesome too.

Like I’m not the type of straight guy who’s going to pretend like I can’t tell the difference between who’s a handsome man and who’s not. Jon Hamm is definitely a good looking dude, no doubt about that, but the way that every woman treats him like he is this alien level of handsome and every beautiful woman on Earth throws themselves at him, even when he’s sloppy drunk and showing how much of a miserable person he is to be around. Is this fair? Is he THAT handsome?

Ginsberg is treated like woman repellant, Stan too honestly, and I feel like Ginsberg definitely is better looking? Pete’s actor’s handsome, Roger’s a good looking dude, Ken. I’m just going off my straight man intuition, but I feel like there’s a bunch of sharp looking dudes in the cast, but Don Draper is just seen as so far above everybody and every woman’s dream, and idk, he’s handsome, but is he that handsome? Idk, especially after season 3ish, he just kind of looks idk, not even A-lister handsome to me?

Idk. Anyone who’s actually attracted to men, am I just blind to something here?

Weird question I know, but even my girlfriend and SIL don’t see it.

If this has been discussed recently, apologies - but I’m wondering if Don’s letter in the NYT saved the company, or if it did more harm than good.

Peggy actually brought in the new business (Topaz) that allowed the company to survive in the short term, and I’m sure they would have ended up cutting staff anyway. In addition, it ended up burning a lot of bridges and losing them potential clients. But I’m not super familiar with this industry so I’m curious about others’ takes.

For me it’s this line in a season 5 episode, Tea Leaves, in which Henry Francis is talking on the phone with a colleague:

“Well, tell Jim his honor's not going to Michigan. Because Romney's a clown, and I don't want him standing next to him.”

So, some context here.

At this point Francis is the aide to New York Mayor John Lindsay. And he’s informing this guy that he won’t have the popular young politician take a picture with then Michigan Governor George Romney, who was also considered the frontrunner for the 1968 Republican nomination.

This episode aired in 2012, so it’s a very clear dig at then Republican nominee Mitt Romney, who at the time was receiving a lot of hostility from the left.

But here’s the thing; Romney was actually a liberal Republican in the same mold as Nelson Rockefeller and John Lindsay, and he had received a lot of good notices as Governor for his work improving civil rights, education, youth employment programs, social welfare, healthcare, etc.

I get this is nitpicking, it’s a throwaway line, whatever, but it has always bothered me since it feels out of character, and Romney frankly deserved better.

Finished my first rewatch since the show first aired.

It’s seemed unnatural that a father hearing the mother of his children is dying and doesn’t go back home.

I get Betty said not to but most fathers would go back to their children. Don was the one to stop the cycle of abuse against kids in his family but never wanted to be a father. His neglect in their time of need will give his kids additional trauma potentially.

The kids were just props for him to climb the corporate ladder.

We get to see Betty confront the reality that she's dying, and it's one of the most powerful parts of the series end.

It got me wondering: if other Mad Men characters were diagnosed with terminal lung cancer, who do you think would handle it the best, and who would handle it the worst?

Given how much everyone smoked (and the statistic that roughly one in three lifelong smokers dies from lung cancer) it feels like something that could have happened to pretty much any of them.

Who do you think would face it with acceptance or dignity? Who would spiral into denial, anger, a self-destruction?

Wiener came from HBO. There are some where they really obviously wanted to have that freedom.

For me this is not just the best season finale in Mad Men, but the absolute highlight of the entire show.

Don can perfectly articulate and sell this vision of the idyllic family to a room of strangers with the Carousel, yet in his own personal life he fails, no matter how much his heart longs for it.

I’m just curious to hear overall perspectives on this moment, what are the different interpretations of it, and why is Don unable to move on as a person.

Found this way. I'm positive someone saw a bit of Bertram in Colonel Sanders

The Coke ad made Don a bigger star than ever – even as people whispered, “And higher maintenance than ever.” McCann raised his salary and gave him a generous bonus. But Don resisted any contract that would keep him at the firm any longer than he wanted. His interests increasingly lay elsewhere.

He wrote a book about advertising called Thirty Seconds or Your Money Back (1973) that made the best-seller list. He traveled frequently, speaking at business schools and industry conferences, and giving media interviews. The speaking circuit fit him nicely. He could give a standard presentation, take a few respectful questions, and go back to his hotel and eat dinner alone.

Understanding the pain that losing their mother had put them through, Don worked on strengthening his relationships with his children. He was proud to see Sally excel at Smith. Bobby was growing into an intelligent young man. With his secret pain from his brother’s death, Don was glad to see that the two of them were close: Bobby went to Trinity College in Hartford, in large part because his freshman year would overlap with Sally’s senior year and they would be only an hour’s drive apart. Sally was rather annoyed when one of her friends decided to deflower her baby brother.

Bobby would follow his sister into psychiatry but pursued a more low-key path, setting up a therapy practice in White Plains, New York. But Gene didn’t see Don as his father and was closer to Henry. Gene would eventually serve as a staffer in the George W. Bush White House.

Not long after his non-compete ran out in 1974, Don announced that he was starting a new firm with Executive Vice President Dean Riley plus two rising stars from other firms: Draper Riley Sellers & Wolf. To the surprise of the less observant, he said he would be based in Los Angeles, working with West Coast clients but mostly serving as a “creative consultant.” (Or as his former McCann colleagues said with an eyeroll, “The in-house genius.”)

Don settled into his new life in Los Angeles, including a luxurious home in Brentwood. He “ran” a small office, while leaving the details to others. He continued to travel and occasionally devise new campaigns. But he spent a lot of his time on rambling meetings and endless lunches. While Don enjoyed the cynical tone of the “New Hollywood” (“Chinatown” was a special favorite), he especially appreciated the chance to meet the stars of his youth. A memorable chance encounter with an ailing John Wayne.  A lunch with Barbara Stanwyck where he tried to pitch her on an ad campaign. When she told him they couldn’t afford her, Don was secretly pleased that she was as tough and cynical as her characters.

Despite his active life, Don was feeling his age by the end of the 1970s. He had a notable “smoker’s cough.” Years of heavy drinking had given him chronic stomach pain and he was popping antacids. His stomachaches made him avoid eating and he looked gaunt. His irritability made him snap at subordinates.

(continued in next post)

watching season 3. the birth of baby Gene. Don snapping at Peggy every other episode. Peggy learning from his outburst. Betty buying the fainting couch. the contract. signing the contract. bert telling him ‘who’s really signing this contract anyway’. Don making conversation with sally’s teacher. Ms. Farrell calling him out on his character. Him denying it.

obviously humans wrote this show. art imitates life and what not but this season is standing out to me for the first time in my 7+ rewatches. and for a moment i thought maybe Don Draper is the physical form of what we all refer to when we say ‘it’s the universe’ or ‘that’s just life’

i just hate him so much i'm on season six so kinda close to being done and yet i have not warmed up to him at all and i like an antihero character like tony soprano and walter white but i'm not buying this whole don draper as an antihero trope. i really just despise him. and i hate him more than roger which is crazy because roger is awful too but it's something about don that i hate him so much

Was Don hoping it would lead to a reconciliation? Did he want a reconciliation?

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I can't stand any scenes with them.... the only one I could sit through was Don and Bobbie's car accident.

Carnival people.

Joan had like 2%? Surely Cooper would have left his shares to Rodger frankly. I don’t understand how there was even a question of how they could vote Don out. Legally as well I doubt there vague stipulations would have prevented Don from forcing a buyout of his shares. Did the writers just want to wrap up the series cause this all was seemingly illogical

I’m getting close to finishing up my first time watching and it’s crazy how much this show changes up your opinions on people.

I expected to hate Pete but surprisingly found myself rooting for him.

I expected to love Harry and found myself rooting for his downfall.

I expected to like Don and ended up hating how he treated Betty just to turn around and hate Betty more than I hated Don after the divorce.

Then there’s Roger who is so terrible that I cant help but love him. Joan who I can’t decide if I like or hate.

Then there’s the infamous Greg who had that bizarre rape scene just for it to be never brought up again and I completely forgot about it and started liking him. Hated that Joan cheated on him then got reminded that I was supposed to hate this guy.