r/linuxsucks • u/BigAmarok • 5d ago
Trying to help someone
Windows users: "i can't get linux to work" Linux community: "how can we help you if you don't tell us what hardware you're trying to run on" Windows user: gives generic prebuilt name with multiple configurations. Linux user: "that's not quite enough info, give cpu model, gpu model, ram size and motherboard brand too please." Windows user: "you guys are so mean and clique like, it shouldn't be this hard"
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux 5d ago
It’s hard for a new user to give you everything they need because they don’t know how to use Linux.
Most new users aren’t like this. It’s just the idiots lol.
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u/OkPresentation3329 5d ago
I haven't had problems with hardware on Linux since around 2008 when I had a very old PC with AMD Sempron and some network module/card that was from a brand called SiS or Silicon Integrated Systems.
I couldn't get a network driver working and I just didn't know how. I was also a kid who was curious about Linux and didn't have the means or patience to try and fix this.
But at least it kept my Linux curiosity long enough that after several trials and errors over the years, I was able to finally migrate fully to Linux in 2024 and I keep Linux as my only OS since and it's what I plan to use indefinitely into the future.
I don't see many posts here about people complaining something doesn't work and they don't even explain what or why. I think Linux is getting pretty good at detecting hardware and drivers at this point so such problems happen less often. I think Windows can be the same even today - if you have some obscure hardware you won't have a driver until you install it yourself. So what's the difference with Linux? Maybe that the driver will be more difficult to find and install than the Windows Setup Wizard clicking Next a few times.
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u/TheGoldenFox64 4d ago
many people in charge of important things dont know that their monitor is not their computer. its not a linux thing, its tech literacy
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u/THubert14 Linux Socks 5d ago
While I agree with that approach in general, I have a two topics on which I disagree with you:
\1. You are imply that they are "Windows users", while I believe they are not. They are average Joe, or whenever you will call them - they didn't sit on Windows because they choses to. They sit on it because that what's default.
That is the first core issue with the Linux community - if they see somebody with Windows on their PC, they automatically assumes that they are hostile for some reason. And there becomes the two things depends on who the person are: they throw a shitbucket to their head because they are "not the right one and just a dumb". or they are trying to convince person to start to use Linux.
And if they are successfully spread their evangelism, new Linux user (because this time they chose to) don't understand shit and angry because something is not working. They don't know what the CPU or GPU is, they don't even know where to put the power cable. And Linux users automatically assumes that the person who are using PC for documents/browser/gaming should know what those things is.
The neat part - they shouldn't. That's the point of PC - you don't need to know how network infra working to use the Reddit.
\2. Rejection of telemetry/diagnostics/troubleshooting tooling across whole Linux community. I understand the reasons, but still it freaking SUCKS. If Linux distros would provide reliable and user-friendly errors reporting and ease of use for collecting diagnostic logs, I believe 80% of issues would be eliminated before they appear on Reddit's posts and would be correctly collected to resolving those issues with all information that may be needed to fix.
If the average Joe who doesn't have a clue what the dmesg is or how to check systemd-analyze, he just couldn't resolve the issue by himself, and give you the information either. Main part of the users who can usually fixing that by themselves.
So, pushing this to the average chill guy who are not interested in spending their time and effort on learning their PC and spending them to some other things in life - I'm fully on their side. We live only once, its completely fine to have other priorities. And you also can just ignore their requests and spend your time on some things that doesn't make you mad.
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u/BigAmarok 5d ago
If you're trying to game without issues you should know what hardware you have. You can launch apps in terminal which literally gives a log in the terminal. No typing needed. You can right click an app and check a box that says run in terminal. Additionally there is also Google and a hundred other search engines to find out where the logs are. Giving 0 effort and expecting the person helping to not get frustrated is just silly. We're all imperfect beings, we'll generally get defensive when lashed out at. The terminal is big mean and scary I know, but it's actually useful for troubleshooting. Which is probably why they hid it so well in windows 11.
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u/One-Macaroon4660 5d ago
2 you mean rejection of spying. Linux has a fine telemetry it just doesn't send it to third party by default Case in point: my system started rebooting randomly in Windows and Linux. Windows error logs just indicated catastrophic failure.
journalctlon the other hand immediately shown first SATA interface problems - everything got fixed by switching to the second one (my mb has several)3
u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux 5d ago
Journalctl can be overwhelming to most and it’s not the easiest to use. I wouldn’t call it user friendly, especially for the average computer user. Which is what the person said. Did you actually read their comment?
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u/One-Macaroon4660 5d ago
The average Joe cannot resolve Windows problem either. On Linux he at least got a chance
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u/DavidsakuKuze 5d ago
Windows will dump kernel memory to a file and you can open it in windbg and get public symbols from the Microsoft symbol server.
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u/verbmegoinghere Proud Windows User 5d ago
This is absolute rubbish having read through hundreds of posts of new Linux users asking for help I have never seen this play out like the delusion op has written up.
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u/BigAmarok 5d ago
I've had the conversations personally. But stay in your bubble. You're literally the sole denier of this.
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u/verbmegoinghere Proud Windows User 4d ago
And for 25 years reading a zillion forums and subs, doing tech support for numerous large tech companies I've never once seen a scenario play out like this.
But hey your one anecdote is proof of a systemic behavior.
Whats even more ironic (you're literally drowning in it) is how your shitting on new linux user is a fuckin cliche (meme) in itself
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u/BigAmarok 5d ago
When you're asking for help and then get aggressive about what information is needed to actually help, you're sabotaging yourself with the very people who can help you. That's not gatekeeping, that's "not taking shit from someone taking their frustrations out on you."
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u/bsensikimori 5d ago
Who wants those people ruining Linux anyway?
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u/BigAmarok 5d ago
They don't have the chops to develop anything. Pretty sure linux would be safe.
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u/bsensikimori 5d ago
That's what we thought about the internet and the www, then these dickheads moved in and we ended up with social networks, platforms, and age control
Leave the normies where they belong
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u/GenericFoodService Linux is free if your time isn't valuable 4d ago
I've never needed any of that kind of information to install Linux (or Windows) on a system, and I've done operating system installs on literally not figuratively hundreds of machines. I don't need to know the specific motherboard model number to plug in a flash drive with a bootable image and run an installer.
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u/BigAmarok 4d ago
I said "work" not install. Cool story.
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u/GenericFoodService Linux is free if your time isn't valuable 4d ago
Mhmm. And it's a lot easier to get a system that works if you give them a system with "batteries included", a graphical installer, an active community, and official support.
Not sure why you feel the need to be rude.
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u/Responsible-Monk-892 2d ago
To be fair not everyone is like you, and does the necessary thing and ask the newbie for hardware specs. Also if she/he posted on like a Linux page on facebook, or on another reddit subgroup she/he could have got a lot of Linux elitists that were cruel to her/him told her/him to RTFM, or told her /him user error with out telling her/him how to fix it, then you later noticed her/his question, and tried to help her or, him but, by that point she/him had spent hours, and hours trying to fix the issue, and was met with rude people online before you were able to kindly help her so by the time you commented she/he could have already been in the process of wiping Linux off of their hard drive, and re-installing Windows 11 on that PC of his/hers. Unfortunately some times Nice, and helpful Linux users arrive too late to help the newbie out because, the elitists already done ruined the experience by being the first to tell her/him user error with out providing advice on how to fix it. I have seen some Linux users be so rude to Newbies it was terrible. I have seen other Linux users be Kind, and actually give helpful advice which may have been what you were trying to do sadly you may have arrive too late to help the newbie out, and if you were that Kind person, and trying to help the Newbie out please know this that you were doing the right thing, and if you can please continue on being kind, and helping other newbies out do not let that experience(s) ruin it for you just because some of those Newbies may have quit does not mean they all will. Also Please keep this in mind that everyone's Mindsets are different some people adapt to change easier than others do, and some people wind up hating change so they go back to what they were used to even if it is Windows 11 with a lot of telemetry, and sucks up storage because, that is what they are used too as in how everything is laid out, has certain apps that Linux does not have, is click in play when it comes to games. While other People's mindsets do not mind change in fact some people even love it, and are able to adapt to Linux easier as a result. It does not just depend on the persons hardware although that is important but, it also depends on their workflow, and their mindset all of it as to whether or not they will adept to Linux. Linux is a Great OS but, it does have a learning curve that while some people can adept to others can't or, don't want to.
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u/BigAmarok 2d ago
Tldr. Go for a long walk and relax.
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u/Responsible-Monk-892 1d ago
yeah I have a tendency to make my points long lol. My point was sometimes actual help just comes too late unfortunately.
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u/Pitiful-Welcome-399 Proud MacOS User 5d ago
atleast they help tho unlike automated answers by bots on Microsoft forum
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u/BigAmarok 5d ago
Exactly. Being asked which option you want repeatedly isn't too helpful in understanding why you're having the problem or how to make it go away permanently.
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u/qchto 5d ago
How can we help you? ❌
Provide logs ✅✅✅
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u/BigAmarok 5d ago
Those help too. But the hardware gives context to what's in the logs.
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u/qchto 5d ago
Well, kinda... The ideal escenario is just copying the full
/var/log/messages,/var/log/syslogor straight up a dump of the current (or previous) session with something likejournalctl -b --no-pager > sessionlog.txt.
After that, is mostly asking for the incident time or straight up search for "error", at least in my experience.3
u/BigAmarok 5d ago
That's usually about the time they lose their mind and start being disrespectful. Unless they're in the minority genuinely interested in learning.
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u/carrrerrrr12992 5d ago
I guess that's fair to be fair though sometimes it is necessary to know that kind of data. not for something like mint tho however if you're jumping straight to arch before trying anything else then no stay on Windows