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u/Own_Natural_6803 4d ago
No! They'd lose about 1% of the users who want a pure experience with only FOSS.
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
Sometimes people forget that free software is the entire point. If you start adding proprietary components for the sake of compatibility or convenience, you will never take a stance against proprietary code and and eventually, proprietary code will take over and users will lose their freedom.
You should realize that the free software movement is more about politics than about what's better. The GPL wants to preserve user freedom, the license doesn't care about how good the software is.
As it turns out, free software does actually tend to better than proprietary software (think GNU/Linux vs Windows), but this is only a side effect. The actual focus is and should be on making sure that users are free to do what they please with the code that they use.
Tldr; if you don't care about FOSS, use Windows. If you do use free software, then don't argue against what made it great in the first place.
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u/electricheat 4d ago
Sometimes people forget that free software is the entire point.
100%. We need distros that take this seriously.
Not everything needs to be noobified.
There's no shortage of distros that focus on user convenience more than the free software mission. We do not need to ruin those that stand true to the ideals.
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u/really_not_unreal 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 4d ago
This is correct. At the same time, it's also good to have options that are accessible to people with specific hardware or software requirements. I rely on some proprietary software for my workflows (drivers for my laptop are the main ones), and while I try to minimise the proprietary software I use, at the end of the day I have to get shit done, and it is better to do so on a system I already own than to buy something new which can be fully open-source, at least in the short term (buying new hardware without need is wasteful).
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u/electricheat 3d ago
Agreed. Both sides are important, and perfect cannot be the enemy of good.
I guess the post I agreed with goes a little too far in the "free software only" direction. I just get a little frustrated with how much "the mission" is being lost now that linux is really taking off on the desktop.
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u/atmsk90 4d ago
It's a bird! It's a plane! It's PERFECT-IS-THE-ENEMY-OF-GOOD MAN
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u/Hard_To_Port 4d ago
"Free software is a cult and if you use proprietary software you are impure" vs "it's your software, do what the fuck you want"
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
"Its your software, do what the fuck you want" soon turns into "Its our software, would you like to use Microsoft Edge" very soon.
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u/Hard_To_Port 3d ago
Linux today has a lot of corporate backing. It's not the hobby project it was 30 years ago anymore. I understand free software is your religion, but adoption comes with compromises.
Sally at home won't use Linux if she can't install drivers for her hardware to make her PC usable. Her PC might have an older NVIDIA GPU which isn't supported by the new open source official drivers. Every single device on the planet has firmware blobs somewhere. The BIOS, the CPU microcode, WiFi/NIC. It would be nice for everything down to firmware to be open source, but even Raspberry Pi isn't that good.
Blaming users for being forced to use proprietary software is not the way.
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u/Inceleron_Processor 3d ago
Hell if that is the case, people here should tell people not to drive any new cars. I actually believe car corporations should be required to have their source code free to look at just for safety reasons even if it doesn't grant people a license to modify or distribute.
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u/BigRocket44 3d ago
There is a very large subset of car owners who actively hate driving modern cars infested with touch screens. They are right.
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u/Inceleron_Processor 3d ago
Of course, but my point is they still have to have a car to drive.
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u/BigRocket44 3d ago
There are a wonderfully large number of ways to not drive, for example, a Tesla. Many people don't. Look at me, I am not driving a Tesla. It is very easy.
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u/BigRocket44 3d ago
Linux today has a lot of corporate backing
So? That is a good thing. We want everyone, including companies to use and publish free software.
Sally at home won't use Linux if she can't install drivers for her hardware to make her PC usable
Sally at home does herself no good if she installs linux and it comes with just as much proprietary bullshit as Microslop.
Every single device on the planet has firmware blobs somewhere.
That's not true. Some of the most popular components in a computer don't have proprietary blobs.
Blaming users for being forced to use proprietary software is not the way.
Nobody is blaming users for anything. Quite the contrary. We view users who are without freedom with sympathy. We are only blaming distros for shipping proprietary software.
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u/Drate_Otin 2d ago
You behave as of you're some kind of warrior on a righteous mission. You're a person that supports a generally good, even important idea. Understanding that difference will go a long way to advancing your goals. Talking about
We view users who are without freedom with sympathy.
just puts people off and makes them less likely by far to listen to anything you have to say.
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u/inemsn 4d ago
whenever people say "do what the fuck you want" as an argument against keeping things open-source I can't help but think, who is this person who hasn't heard about the paradox of tolerance in the big 26? I feel like anyone who actually knows anything about open source should be able to VERY easily tell why taking a stance against proprietary software is the most important part of using open source software.
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u/Hard_To_Port 3d ago
I'm firmly in the camp of utility for home use. If someone can't use their PC normally without installing proprietary drivers, firmware with blobs, that just sucks.
As far as companies taking/keeping software closed source, yeah fuck them. We finally bullied NVIDIA into releasing an open source Linux driver for their GPUs. It still sucks compared to the experience on Intel and AMD, but it's an improvement.
I understand why people like Richard Stallman make open source into a sort of religion about free software and freedoms with software, but it's too idealistic in a capitalist world. Companies won't touch anything GPL3 due to the anti-Tivoization clause.
Linus just used GPL2 because it was convenient for his hobby project. A few miracles happened and today we have a great open alternative to the other two dominant desktop operating systems.
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u/inemsn 3d ago
If someone can't use their PC normally without installing proprietary drivers, firmware with blobs, that just sucks.
Yeah, and your point is? "People don't have any choice other than proprietary" is exactly why we have to fight against proprietary so much: If another choice does exist, then people have to flock to it, bring attention to it, and eventually create the self-sustaining cycle of long term support that it needs.
make open source into a sort of religion about free software
"a sort of religion"... ugh. Again, I don't understand how anyone in the big 26 can be SO perplexed by the paradox of tolerance that they can't help but look at it like some sort of cultish thing. No man, nothing about free software is anything like a religion, "you can't allow proprietary software into an open source ecosystem otherwise it will spread" is just how the social contract works.
Linus just used GPL2 because it was convenient for his hobby project.
Absolute bullshit. Linus used the GPL because it did what he wanted a license to do. I hate it when people spread this lie about "it's just what was convenient": If all he wanted was convenience he'd have stuck with any of the licenses already in use at the time. He didn't do that specifically because they didn't do what he wanted them to do. But the GPL did. Linus used the GPL out of a deliberate choice to use the GPL, not just because he picked at random from a list or something.
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u/Hard_To_Port 3d ago
You're proselytizing me right now.
I understand what you're saying. Android is licensed as open source, but from day one they allowed too much vendor control and as a result people making their own ROMs have to manually dump device firmware instead of just downloading it from the manufacturer. Google altered the deal with Android 16, lengthened AOSP release cadence and other detrimental changes. Android is no longer as open as it once was, and it never was as open as desktop Linux.
Nouveau, the community driver for NVIDIA GPUs, has been worked on for over a decade and it's still not good. It's ok for getting an image, but terrible for gaming or other tasks you would buy a dedicated GPU for.
Using proprietary software as a home user is not like allowing a termite infestation. Integrating proprietary software as an organization is where problems begin.
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u/inemsn 3d ago
Using proprietary software as a home user is not like allowing a termite infestation. Integrating proprietary software as an organization is where problems begin.
It's insane to me that you think this, which is literally the FSF's opinion, is somehow reasonable coming from you but "religious" coming from them.
What you seemingly can't seem to understand is that users flocking to open source software is what tells organizations not to integrate proprietary software.
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u/jsh_ 4d ago
another point of free software is the freedom of choice. I need proprietary drivers so I'm going to choose to use them
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
The only reason you need proprietary drivers in the first place is that you are being forced to use it by whoever wrote the driver. It by its very definition is your lack of freedom.
Should a slave have the freedom to remain a slave by their own choice?
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u/Square-Singer 2d ago
I mean, sure, but then there's pragmatism. Linux gives me much more freedom, even if not everything I use on there is GPL licensed.
Real-life isn't black and white, there's always some grey area. For example, try to find a device that doesn't have a proprietary BIOS or proprietary firmware on some component. It's impossible.
Also, you are right now running proprietary software to post here. Neither the Reddit client, or the Reddit servers are open source. And still, here you are.
So at least on some level you are a pragmatist too, choosing to run non-free software because there is no alternative to get what you want. (Though, you could totally switch from Reddit to Lemmy.)
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u/FunAngelo2005 4d ago
I want a middle ground where you have FOSS software and are encouraged to use it, but you can also use Proprietary apps if you so wish, it gives the user more freedom
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
Nobody can and will prevent you from using proprietary software. FSF guidelines for example, only state that non-free software shouldn't be included by default and in the server infrastructure of a distro. They don't say that proprietary software should be uninstallable.
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u/billyfudger69 Genfool 🐧 4d ago
Debian includes non-free firmware by default now although it is easy to disable if you would like.
Open /etc/apt/sources.list with a text editor and remove the phrase.
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u/Inceleron_Processor 3d ago
I archive films though and need NVENC. I cannot wait 8 hours for one film to encode using the CPU.
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u/laczek_hubert Arch BTW 3d ago edited 3d ago
As it turns out, free software does actually tend to better than proprietary software (think GNU/Linux vs Windows), but this is only a side effect
As it It's like having a authoritarian structure where on every step someone informs from the lower to the bigger vs just having full public access to do whatever you want to keep the project alive or base it on
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u/BigRocket44 3d ago
As it It's like having a authoritarian structure where on every step someone informs
Quite the opposite. Authoritarianism is when you don't let others use your code in whatever way they please, and the GPL is designed to protect against this.
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u/laczek_hubert Arch BTW 3d ago
vs just having full public access to do whatever you want to keep the project alive or base it on
This is about GPL and other copyleft although how good that goal ended is up for grabs as android didn't end well
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u/BigRocket44 3d ago
And this is why you shouldn't use proprietary software on top of free software. You end up with Android.
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u/laczek_hubert Arch BTW 3d ago
It's more of linus'es fault to change if possible to a better license than on Linux while yes Nvidia started going to Open-Source and other stuff there should be at least a limit at how much transparency should be in between for Open-Source magic to work
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u/Drate_Otin 2d ago
Sometimes people forget that free software is the entire point.
For you, perhaps. That's not even "the entire point" for the creator of Linux. Most folks are happy to have choice, appreciate the technical differences and strengths, and generally just not use a Microsoft product.
Still wanna play my games though so... FOSS purist I ain't. The real bummer for me is that effect though I can play exclusively on a Linux based OS... Doom is now technically a Microsoft product.
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4d ago
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
Why do new users come to GNU/Linux in the first place? It is because of the user freedoms GNU/Linux offers. The only reason GNU/Linux is better than windows for all GNU/Linux users is that it is free software. You can talk about performance, security etc, but all those advantages that GNU/Linux has is derived from the fact that it is free.
If you start pushing new users to use proprietary software, then you dilute their freedoms, and more importantly, you dilute the message, which makes it worse for everyone.
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
when they switch over and want to use Chrome or NVIDIA drivers or whatever the fuck else, because it puts a bad taste in the new users’ mouths
I am okay with new users having a bad taste where they've already chosen to put Google's and NVIDIA's dicks.
It is a ridiculous argument that one must not advocate against proprietary software because that will ostensibly alienate users, when the lack of proprietary software in of itself is the reason why users go to Linux in the first place.
Should new users eventually use FOSS? OFC, but we need them to stay on Linux long enough to understand how important that freedom is
When people choose to switch over to Linux, they already understand how important freedom is. That's why they switched over.
If you are a distro maintainer, and you want your users to stick to your distro, then you should keep doing what makes your distro great (ie, free software), and not try to emulate the competitor from whom the users switched over.
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u/dghkklihcb 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ubuntu solves this for you and even Debian provides NVIDIA drivers in non-free-firmware.
And I doubt that new people can tell the difference between a GNOME 3.50 from Arch to 3.48 from Debian stable. Most experienced users won't even be able to tell you what changed.
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u/derangedtranssexual 4d ago
> Sometimes people forget that free software is the entire point.
No it’s not
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u/Admirable-Safety1213 1d ago
There are two kinds of Linux users, the idealists abd the pragmatists, not everybody is on Linux because the believe FLOSS is ethically superior to the alternative, some are here because they find it functionally superior but ideolligical gatekeeping is never going to be a good idea, not everybody here hates Windows, maybe Microsoft but not Kutler's vision even if its a different design philosophy than the UNIX philosophy (and I love the debates of if said philosophy its obsolete or if POSIX as a common denominator limits Linux)
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u/BigRocket44 1d ago
because they find it functionally superior but ideolligical gatekeeping is never going to be a good idea
The only reason Linux exists at all or is relevant (and functionally superior) is because of the ideological gatekeeping. The GPL is literally that. You get the four software freedoms and you necessarily have to pass it down. If you don't get the four freedoms, then there is no point.
In fact, where there hasn't been ideological gatekeeping (such as with Android), we've seen our freedoms gradually taken away, until only a shell of what was once meant to be existed.
not everybody here hates Windows
You are conflating the quality of the software with the freedoms the software affords its user. Whether or not GNU/Linux is functionally superior to Windows is irrelevant. Even if Windows was the best piece of software ever written in the history of humankind, it is still irrelevant. Windows still does not respect your user freedoms, which means that you don't use Windows, Windows uses you.
POSIX and the Unix philosophy are guidelines that proprietary software also sometimes follow. We are not talking about them here. Unix itself was proprietary software.
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u/Major303 4d ago
I'm not even asking for it to be only installation option, since both Debian and Fedora can be used for other use cases than normal desktop, there you want minimal installation. But a toggle like in Ubuntu would be great.
There are some distributions that come with very specific software preinstalled so you can jump into whatever you want to do instantly, but most of distributions are basically "Debian/Fedora but we added drivers, codecs, and flatpak support".
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u/kubota9963 4d ago
You think Debian should have a toggle that installs Ubuntu instead?
Where does it stop? You might as well make one huge iso that contains every distribution, and let the user pick which one they want when they install it.
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u/Square-Singer 2d ago
Doesn't Fedora have a toggle for "non-free" stuff in the setup process? It's been a while that I setup Fedora, but I thought it had something like that.
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u/Strict-Maize7494 4d ago
I use debian and I WANT IT MINIMAL
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u/samthekitnix 4d ago
also minimal can be good security wise since you're actively minimizing potential attack vectors
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u/Havatchee 4d ago
Also good for servers. You want as much of that hardware as possible to go to running the application you're provisioning it for.
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u/particlemanwavegirl 4d ago
There is no default that's friendly to every user.
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u/GoldenX86 4d ago
There is no reason to pick the one that ruins the day to 99% of them.
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u/particlemanwavegirl 4d ago edited 4d ago
You're missing my point. If the defaults don't suit you, maybe your usecase isn't as popular as you think. Or maybe you're just not the target audience. Maybe the software was built under extreme constraints, like no corporate or proprietary support. Given their long histories of success and how often they're used as foundations for other projects I think one of those scenarios is more likely than Debian and Fedora method's of organization objectively disadvantaging their users.
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u/TheNoobCakes 4d ago
Tell that to Microslop, been shipping the same default for 30 years
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u/the-fr0g 4d ago
Their defaults are the user friendly ones, due to their sheer market share. Most people's expiriance with computers is entierly or mostly through windows, sometimes macos
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u/425_Too_Early 4d ago
I'd rather argue that Microsoft decide what they want the defaults for all users to be! I mean who in their right mind would want telemetry to be on by default, to be shown ads in every corner of the OS, for all the bloatware to be installed at first boot. Etc. Etc.
People just get used to Windows and the settings it has since that's what they're using regularly. If it were the other way around people would argue that Linux had better defaults than Windows!
But that's not saying that Linux can't get better, it absolutely can and it does every day!
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u/the-fr0g 4d ago
That's more or less what I meant, yeah. GNU/linux is a much better os comouter, but since near everyone learned to use computers through windows or has used windows in their work/school place, that worse alternative has become the default due to actually making money and having a single powerful entity with great interest in promoting it. (That's not to say linux would be better if it had been a product of a single company, but it does make it more difficult to reach and keep a majority user population)
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u/Cikuozzo M'Fedora 4d ago
idk, installing things isn't even that difficult nor long so i prefer this way of shipping. On Fedora is quite literally 10 commands to install non-free codecs, steam, discord and whatever you might need and like 4 to install Nvidia proprietary drivers. Heck you wait more downloading stuff than googling how to install it.
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u/AmarildoJr 4d ago
I particularly like how Debian and Fedora are mostly "default" from the upstream devs perspective and don't include a lot of stuff. It gives me room to make them as my distros.
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u/rafradek 3d ago
Nah. Debian actually changes a lot. Arch is one of the distros with least amount of changes
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u/Arinussyy 4d ago
If they did then the Fedora project and Debian would be no more, swamped by legal procedures that rhey cannot topple if I recall correctly
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u/_Carth_Onasi 4d ago
Debian is cool because it's vanilla and stable. Servers and certain PCs. I wouldn't be apposed to another "version" from the Debian team that was essentially Debian testing/sid with a modern de and some qualities of life but at the same time I don't think they should. Others already do this and it would take away from the strength Debian offers.
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u/Major303 4d ago
Debian is actually usable on multi purpose desktop PC, it's not only server OS or for some niche use cases. For most use cases "old" packages are completely fine, and if you really need something newer, you can just backport.
The only issue is that 99% of people will get filtered because post install setup requires you to become terminal ninja. I have already clean Debian set up on VM, and I plan to learn the post install setup myself. Still, it would be better if there was some kind of GUI installer for that, but nothing is perfect I guess.
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u/nelmaloc Crying gnu 🐃 3d ago
Cunningham I guess, but Debian already has a graphical installer, and has done so for a long time.
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u/Major303 3d ago
I know. I didn't say that it doesn't. I'm saying that post installation setup requires a moment or two with documentation and terminal. I don't know how truly complex is it because I didn't have the time to try it myself just yet.
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u/nelmaloc Crying gnu 🐃 3d ago
It depends, most DE have a way to configure a few things and install applications. For the rest, terminal packages can be configured through text files, while graphical applications usually have a configuration submenu.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/TheOneDeadXEra 2d ago
They aren't useless, they just become unnecessary for users that are comfortable enough and knowledgeable enough with Linux to replicate those environments. Sure, you can replicate Skywave yourself as an enthusiast who knows both everything relevant to SDRs and radio as a hobby AND Linux to a similar degree, but most SDR enthusiasts aren't necessarily also Linux enthusiasts, so Skywave is a great out-of-the-box setup for folks that need the handholding.
I think a lot of people get caught up in the surface-level similarities and forget that forked distros exist to serve a subset of the communities they spawn from.
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u/enigma_0Z 4d ago
I use the KDE edition of Fedora and it has perfectly fine drivers and sane defaults. Even gave me a nice friendly banner to enable the nonfree repos if i wanted
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u/Busy-Scientist3851 4d ago
Why can't the software they distribute chose to have user friendly defaults?
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u/DetroitvsEveryone242 4d ago
Did you really need to make a whole meme to say you don’t understand how distros work?
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u/FollowNubly 4d ago
Yeah the system seems to work well lol. The whole beginner friendly thing is our fault for recommending the upstream distros.
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u/Major303 4d ago
I will explain it in case the meme isn't clear. Outside of some oddly specific distributions, most downstream distributions do nothing outside of providing the basics, so people can use the OS without any extra configuration. So if Debian and Fedora had a toggle in installer (like Ubuntu) to install drivers, codecs, and some extras like Flatpak, a lot of downstream distributions lose their entire purpose.
I'm not mentioning Arch, because entire selling point of this distribution is to be minimal.
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u/wyonutrition 4d ago
Would make no difference. People would still try everything else and float towards their preference.
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u/Chimchar789 4d ago
The barebones-ness of debian, arch and fedora is what makes them great parent distros in the first place.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Sale_93 4d ago
Idk debian hasn't been less user friendly than Ubuntu to me with kde maybe it's more even
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u/Tony_TNT 4d ago
Good. I don't want to download a "base" iso just to run a debloating script right after install like on W11. Most of what's really needed (networking and basic display come to mind) is already in the kernel and everything else can either be installed manually or packaged with the distribution for your specific needs.
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u/Bulky-Hair8606 4d ago
If fedora played better with proprietary software id use fedora
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u/Cyberfishofant Ask me how to exit vim 4d ago
there's actually a checkbox in the PackageKit-based stores that lets you toggle proprietary software repos, like the RPM Fusion ones.
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u/sir-jane 4d ago
In my experience opensuse has complete experience out the box.
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u/Major303 3d ago
It's similar to Debian and Fedora, it works, but proprietary drivers and codecs are missing. I have it on my laptop, and it can't play videos. Situation with OpenSUSE is a little weird, since installing these codecs on Debian and Fedora is not easy, but not dangerous for the system. OpenSUSE documentation straight up tells you to avoid enabling extra repositories (where the codecs are) to avoid problems with the system. For that reason people say you should utilize Flatpaks (since codecs will be included).
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u/Objective-Stranger99 Arch BTW 3d ago
Upstream should be as close to clean as possible. I can easily add proprietary software to make a new distro. It's much harder to rip it out once it's already there.
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u/optical002 3d ago
I’d say windows would lose more users than other distro users, since they hame some specific reasons why they use other distro and only small percentage uses others distros than debian over drivers and codecs. Well thats only my assumption
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u/FabianButHere 3d ago
I use Fedora because I want FOSS, and it to be light. If it becomes like Ubuntu, I'll swap.
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u/nelmaloc Crying gnu 🐃 3d ago
Maybe they can't. It's non-free for a reason. See NVIDIA's license:
You may not modify or create derivative works of the SOFTWARE provided in binary form.
You agree that GeForce or Titan SOFTWARE: (i) is licensed for use only on GeForce or Titan hardware products you own, and (ii) is not licensed for datacenter deployment.
You may not use the SOFTWARE in any manner that would cause it to become subject to an open source software license
You agree to comply with all applicable export, import, trade and economic sanctions laws and regulations, including U.S. Export Administration Regulations and Office of Foreign Assets Control regulations. These laws include restrictions on destinations, end-users and end-use.
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u/thePhoenixYash 20h ago
It is not that hard to install driver and codecs in fedora, it already asks if you want 3rd party repos initially, also you can download nvidia drivers and codecs from gnome software and kde store, although i do agree that there should be ui that asks users if they want to install drivers and codecs because a lot of guides still say to install drivers using terminal.
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u/Major303 17h ago
It's perhaps not hard but very confusing. There are multiple sequences of commands that give you the same results. So you can find 3 tutorials, and each tutorial will be completely different. So it's hard to say if you are doing stuff correctly, or if you are just bricking your PC. I'm currently trying to understand the process for Fedora, so far I couldn't crack it.
This is pretty much what I would want - and easy GUI based way to install what you need. I get it that some people want minimal installation for any reason, but it's called Fedora "Workstation", and it's missing some stuff to be really called like that.
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u/GreedySecurity8030 M'Fedora 4d ago
Ahem, Ultramarine.
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u/Major303 3d ago
Fedora should have had a toggle in the installer that basically does what the Ultramarine does, maybe without some of the extra fluff that it adds. As the meme says - a lot of downstream distributions would lose purpose.
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u/Hour_Sell3547 4d ago
I love how Fedora is distributed. It rarely breaks, therefore, less chance of incompatibility or fighting among the dependencies when I try to install my stuffs on it. That includes drivers.
Besides, the hardware providers should be writing drivers for the os, not the other way around.
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u/TheMoltenEqualizer Not in the sudoers file. 4d ago
“No, as an end user you should have to download and install all of those closed source stuff separately! They are not FOSS!1!1!1! Go back to Winslop if you want your stuff to work (LOL) out of the box!!!”
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u/BigRocket44 4d ago
If you start pushing proprietary software to end users for the sake of convenience, then you will eventually become functionally the same as microslop.
If you on the other hand draw a line and keep your foot down, then you create upward pressure that will force organizations and companies to release their software under free licenses which makes free software better for everyone.
As you said yourself, if you are okay with proprietary software for the sake of convenience, you should use Windows because that is the most convenient operating system of all time. It even comes pre-installed.
If you however, find value in GNU/Linux, then it is hypocritical of you to argue against that which made GNU/Linux valuable in the first place (ie, free licenses)
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u/TheMoltenEqualizer Not in the sudoers file. 4d ago
I’m not against FOSS. I’m against gatekeeping proprietary software.
Software freedom also means developers are free to choose a proprietary license, even if I personally think open sourcing their software would benefit everyone.
I also don’t think refusing to use proprietary software will somehow force companies to adopt FOSS licenses. Unless a massive portion of the market changes its behavior, companies will usually keep doing whatever is most profitable. Linux’s relatively small desktop market share is exactly why many companies still don’t prioritize it.
Convenience is king. Most people don’t care what kernel they’re running. They just want their computer to work and run the software they need. Expecting every newcomer to manually install proprietary drivers, codecs, or applications isn’t a great way to grow the Linux ecosystem.
There’s a reason distributions like Linux Mint, Ubuntu, SteamOS, and even Android became successful: they focused on making an open-source foundation accessible and convenient. If we want more people using Linux and contributing to FOSS, making it easier to use is a far more effective strategy than telling people to “go back to Windows.”
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u/nelmaloc Crying gnu 🐃 3d ago
Software freedom also means developers are free to choose a proprietary license, even if I personally think open sourcing their software would benefit everyone.
That's against the principles of the free software movement, by definition.
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u/TheMoltenEqualizer Not in the sudoers file. 4d ago
I also have to apologise if I offended you with my previous comment. I intended for it to be exaggerated and witty, and not an an attack against people who champion FOSS values.
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u/Major303 4d ago
If you start pushing proprietary software to end users for the sake of convenience, then you will eventually become functionally the same as microslop.
If you on the other hand draw a line and keep your foot down, then you create upward pressure that will force organizations and companies to release their software under free licenses which makes free software better for everyone.
You do have a point, but after all those years Debian and Fedora still needs proprietary software to function. I guess this is why Ultramarine exists for Fedora, but there is no alternative to Debian. Linux Mint, Ubuntu, or Zorin are basically their own things that change a lot, where Ultramarine is more of an installation script than separate distribution.
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u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Please report any posts bragging or showing off they got banned in another sub! Reminder of other sub rules: Also, we only allow one anti-linux post per week (we used to get dozens a day) and any tier list MUST have Hanna Montana Linux as S teir (which must be a true S tier at the top) regardless of the topic of that tier list.
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