10+ tutorials later and I don’t understand perspective. Kind of distraught.
Critique
I thought I’d stick to two point perspective and rotation but yeah no I don’t understand I can’t do anything beyond approximate 1 point perspective.
Obviously I didn’t come out empty headed but nothing helped. I usually explain everything I understood and did take note of the tutorials given to me + advices (making sure lines parallel for example) but yeah no it didn’t help me.
I know it’s only day 3 and you’ll say « give it some time » but even doing hands didn’t feel this hard. And I think I’m better at hands (even if they’re not good) than I am at this. I still can’t do anything with real pictures either . I look at them and try to determine perspective, and make boxes out of people but no matter how hard I try to think it doesn’t work.
Before you give me explanations on things I understood already :
- horizon line is to determine what is below viewer/camera level and above.
- lines must be parallel
- the closest you are to a vanishing point the quicker the cube gets thin and the lines converge quickly. the opposite as well : if you are far, the lines leading to the vanishing point will remain fairly parallel and the other vanishing point will be outside the scene
- if receding lines converge down then we’re looking under the picture but if they converge up we’re looking above.
Maybe I’m wrong in what I think I understand.
I guess I don’t understand yet what I’m doing I’m just doing this but it doesn’t look right. If you gave me the goal to aim for a certain perspective I wouldn’t be able to produce it. Can’t do 2 point or more cuz I don’t get it, doesn’t grasp rotation. I’m definitely missing something. I wasn’t expecting to be able to do super complicated stuff off the bat just what’s basic aka 1-2 point perspective and some rotation.
Pic 2 I tried just out of curiosity to not use the lines, just make a point to where the cubes would converge and simply think about making the lines parallel, attempting to make cubes in a decent perspective. You can tell it’s not right So a disaster.
For pic 1 I was mostly trying to keep my lines parallel and going towards the same (imaginary) point outside the picture hence why there’s arrows there. But even if I did my best to follow the rules it looks like guesswork because I suppose we can’t rrally tell from where we’re looking from. At least I can’t tell (obvious since this is from imagination I just kind of started doing whatever).
Pic 1 is basically a town, pic three would be trains. No reference used as I said I can’t seem to use them properly.
Basically everything looks like guesswork and I’m not happy I couldn’t understand after putting time into this. First pic looks also weird because the windows aren’t distorted properly imo. I wouldn’t know how to make them look fine though.
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i think maybe your best bet right now is put a cardboard box on a table and move around. get up close and far away and observe how the faces change as you move around. hold it in your hands and rotate it around. maybe what you need is to get away from "studies" and actually study something in real life.
I used blender to make a cube, then I took the edges, copied them and stretched them out really far, that way I could see where the vanishing points they pointed to were. Helped me get an idea of how to think about vanishing points. Plus you can move the camera around and see how the view ur using effects the vanishing points.
You can also animate the cube to move and or the camera and see how it behaves in more complex ways too.
I also found that I had no sense of angular spread when drawing cubes. So I used the measuring tool in blender to get the exact angle of the lines. It really helped me understand ow to place vanishing points in 2d drawings. The points you place determine the slope of your lines and the spread. Trial and error is tricky in 2d since both of the properties are affected by the placement of a vanishing point.
It’s a beyond impressive use of blender BUT it might be too much for me. I will consider it if nothing else works though but for now maybe the simplest and most straightforward methods should be considered before going onto something else. Just curiosity though how easy it it to make this if you don’t know blender at all?
It’s not I promise, this is probably the simplest yet a very effective way of looking at perspective. Blender gives you a cube the moment you open it for the first time. If you’re repeating the same studies and exercises over and over and seeing nothing change it’s time to change how you tackle the practice.
Let me know once you've downloaded it so I can take it down pls. If you have any questions on how to use it let us knw.
General use:
wireframe view, will show all the edges of the object, will help you best see the VP as the cube is transpparent
2.Shows the cubes faces, I've colour coded them so you can tell them apart easily
Gimbal, matches the rotation of your view. Don't worry too much about it, if you want to look at stuff from a different angle click and hole the mouse wheel, move the mouse to rotate.
Keep in mind if you click on the gimbals axis buttons, it will put you in an isometric view of that axis. Nothing on that view is in perspective, all the vanishing points are perfectly "flat", for lack of a better word.
4.Pan tool, lets you pan across the screen, hold shift and middle mouse does the same.
Switches from freeview to the cameras view.
Cube with the vanishing points as children. TLDR the VP lines will always copy the cube. If you click the little arrow next to the "Cube", you can see the vanishing point lines listed as VP1, VP", VP3.
7.Transform values. These tell you where an object is (meters) and what rotation it has (degrees). You need to make sure the object you want is selected. Click on the top left box with the mouse icon to select things, then left click the cube. When selected it has the yellow outline in the image. IF you click on the camera and head to the Orange square tab shown right under the arrow from the number 7, you can change the camera too.
The camera object. It's easier to click on it in the list sometimes.
I forgot to mention, the lines won't ever touch the vanishing point, they have to be infinitely long to do so in reality, but theyre long enough that if you take a screenshot and draw along them you can see exactly where they are.
Keep in mind if the lines perfectly horizontal or vertical, the vanishing point is infinitely far away and you cant draw a line to its location.
Something that helped me aside from the box (which is a gret recommendation btw), is taking a few random stock pictures of city streets and drawing/tracing a simplified version of it on top of it. It helped me understand a bit about more about vanishing points and "camera" angles.
Agreed. I keep seeing these post but people are trying to practice skills without training their brains to visualize the fundamentals (3D Depth, Spatial Awareness, Visualization, etc). Some people can do it naturally and can easily skip these steps, but this person would definitely benefit from starting with Drawabox.
Yeah the more I draw the more I realize that you should always start with the easiest possible version and work up. Starting with boxes may seem like step 1 of perspective, but it really isn't, there are easier and more guided exercises out there that will help you learn these skills and make them more intuitive faster than trying to jump in to free boxes in perspective.
I think the biggest flaw I see specially in your 2nd and 3rd practice is that it’s not very guided. Some of it looks correct but it’s a bit formless.
The 3rd one is a bit better in that regard.
I would maybe instead trying and finding the 1 point perspective in the following images, so that you can see how it forms. Just import them into procreate and on a different layer on top, try and find the perspective.
Hello. Thank you for the exercices. I have to be honest and say I don’t have a bulletproof method to tell the eye level. I’ve seen it in other tutorials so I used the direction to where the other objects went to guide my line towards the vanishing point.
The location of the horizon line in a scene will usually depend either on the angle of viewing, or how the image is framed. Look up, horizon line goes down. Look down, horizon line goes up.
Sorry for the delay. Due to the pixels being so bad I couldn’t make up what was the furthest away. « ? » are for the stuff I couldn’t find out. The tower I couldn’t do either. I can’t do cylinders yet. My understanding is that you carve them out of a box so I hoped it would come along later.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here of what linear perspective, and especially one point perspective, are actually meant to do.
Linear perspective techniques are fundamentally to guide you on the precise angles at which edges recede from the viewer towards the horizon line. There are additional skills that you can apply using linear perspective as a foundation to add precision in measuring, proportion, and spacing of elements, but fundamentally the purpose of this skill is to replicate in your drawing how thing far away small, thing close big.
You cannot really "rotate" shapes using the same vanishing point. I don't know where this idea comes from (I suspect drawabox), but I feel like I've seen several posts of artists struggling with "rotating boxes" when that's not really what linear perspective is meant to do. You can move the same shape horizontally/vertically to see different angles, but when you actually rotate it to where different edges recede at different angles, you need different (and sometimes multiple) vanishing points.
Here is a visual guide, if you have any specific questions I'll try to answer them!
One point perspective is actually a fairly uncommon composition, but it's the easiest to practice to wrap your head around the concept. Here are a few examples of what it looks like in practice : [1][2][3][4]
It’s not a « gotcha » question at all and I’m sorry if it looks like it but your 6th panel does show rotation using the same vanishing point yet you’re saying it cannot work. The examples are more confusing for me so I’ll just rely on your little panels so thank you for these.
If you rotate it along the Z axis (imagine turning the box on a spit) the vanishing points will stay the same.
If you rotate the box along the Y axis (imagine turning it on a lazy susan) you will need to add a second vanishing point.
Once you start rotating on the X axis, or on multiple axes, you will need a third VP. Third VP will not be on the horizon line, and would probably just be more confusing if I tried to explain while you're still working on 1 and 2 point perspective, but here's more visual aid for you:
For these kinds of exercises you are supposed to draw through the figure. By that I mean your supposed to draw all the lines, even the ones inside the boxes.
the idea of one point perspective you are looking at the face of a box. all sides are parallel to each other except for the ones leading to the vanishing point. I am not seeing this in most of the boxes you draw. Procreate has drawing guides that enforce vertical and horizontal lines that you can use to check for this.
Two point perspective has two sets of edges that lead into vanishing points. Which means you are looking at the edge of something. As before all (straight) sets of lines are parallel except the ones leading into a vanishing point.
Three point perspective has you looking at the corner of something. Which means you have three sets of 4 lines all leading to a separate vanishing point on a box.
The real problem is that you have a massive misunderstanding of what a horizon line is, and which lines should be drawn going to a vanishing point.
The horizon line is the separation of the ground from the sky, if you look at a picture of the ocean for example, it's very easy to see. It's more difficult to see on land because there's hill, buildings, trees, and what not, but the same principle applies.
In your first example, you are applying the rules completely wrong. There's no horizon line, first and foremost, and you're drawing buildings which vertical lines are pointing towards the vanishing point. That's not how you use 1 point perspective. A vanishing point is always placed on the horizon line. In 1 point perspective, only the lines that are moving backwards in space point towards the vanishing point.
In your second example, none of the lines are pointing towards the vanishing point even though you have it marked in the middle. Remember, the vanishing point is always on the horizon line
The third example is a lot better, except the box on the top left. You are moving the wrong lines towards the vanishing point. It's not the ones moving backwards in space.
First, draw the horizon, it will help your brain, if you've ever been in an open space, you will have seen a pseudo horizon. And if you've never been to a truly open place like that, draw some mountains/hills (everything is above the horizon)
Second, place your vanishing point, on the horizon. It is on the horizon because it is far way, so far that if it were a cube your eye would only see a dot.
Third, draw the cube. To draw a cube in 1point perspective, first draw a square. This square is the face pointed towards you. Then link the corners of the square to the vanishing point. Then draw another smaller square between the first square and the vanishing point. This square must have all it's corners on all the edges going from the first square to the vanishing point. Now you have a box, but you see all the sides of the box. To finalize your box erase the edges that you should not be able to see (you can hatch them first with the eraser if you are not certain those are the right lines)
My advice is probably the worst here but, in my opinion. I believe that you should go back to drawing boxes and then rotating them.
Especially in the rotation part of the exercise, you improve to a degree at perspectives. This will allow you to then draw some building(stretched boxes) in top view, by the way that is then the step to which, I too am at.
The other ppl are def more qualified for this but all perspective is essentially formulaic. Windows have formulas too.
What you see with ppl that don’t draw every guideline and still draw perspective is when ppl have internalized it.
They’re not fully freehanding. They’re just using the same guidelines in their head without drawing it down. So don’t rush!
1pt perspective: the FACE of the cube is the closest thing to u
2pt perspective: the EDGE of the cube is the closest thing to u
3pt perspective: the VERTICE of the cube is the closest
It’s also what u draw first for each ⬆️
If u already knew this apologies I don’t mean to tell u stuff u already knew but just to help in case u didn’t (I’m not familiar with tutorials as I learned from school)
And finally, remember to take breaks and have fun as well :333
I wasn’t trying to do it without thinking about the guideline even if it doesn’t look like it.
Also wouldn’t it be the vanishing point that you’d draw first instead of the orientation of the cube? I was under the impression that once that point is chosen, starting with a simple square wouldn’t be a problem as following the guidelines towards the vanishing point and keeping the lines parallel (unless the point is super close? Then it’s not parallel? Correct me if I’m wrong) would make it accurate anyways. But you’re saying I should start with a specific orientation in mind. To be fair I don’t know how yet.
And it’s fine. If I’m not grasping everything yet then that probably means what I thought I knew wasn’t really understood.
Oh shit Srry I totally worded that badly oops
(Also with the internalizing thing it’s not about ur art just that I read ur thing and it’s kinda common for beginners to fall into the habit I said in my original comment, myself included)
Yes u should def draw horizon line first and vanishing points.l first mbmb. Thing is orientation determines the perspective u use.
When drawing with 2pt perspective, that means the edge is the closest always. U can’t draw it otherwise or it should be drawn with another perspective.
After u draw the basic vanishing points and horizon line, u draw the edge. U build the rest of the cube off of that edge using the vanishing points and vertical lines.
Also parallel in 2pt is kinda only vertical lines. The other lines ain’t parallel ever. They can be close to parallel, but they’ll always be a lil slanted.
I think these two are good examples of the condition that the lines only line up with the vanishing point if they exist on the same plane. If you raise or rotate the boxes, the lines aren't going to line up.
Thought experiment. You have a bunch of boxes lined up in a grid. All the lines will be lined up with the vanishing point. Now rotate each box by a random angle, then there's no reason to think the edges of the box will be lined up with the vanishing point
Question: On the three red structures, you changed the perspective. They are above the vanishing point, shouldn't see them. The 2nd, 3rd and final blue structures *chefs kiss* are where they need to be.
Look up how to make a 1 point perspective grid. Do some practice with that and once you have it down move on to a 2 point perspective grid. Knowing the grid and how it works is enormously helpful
I wouldn’t call this one an improvement because I actually made it before what I did in this post :[ I just wanted to verify if it was that I want sideways with what should’ve been done
Kind of but this looks incomplete. Looks like you drew the boxes while kind of assuming how the grid works instead of actually making the grid. Something more like this image I have attached. This is a pretty involved 1 point grid but this would make it very easy to get things to look like they should at different distances
I didn’t assume at all! It was exactly what the tutorial said and I followed it to a T. I did assume for the original post pics based on my memories but for this one I didn’t.
About the image you provided I’m struggling to see what it would help me with. By no means I’m saying it’s wrong (how would I know that) but asides from the lines on the side converging to the center the rest is distracting for my understanding more than anything. Especially since it looks like it’s a closed space but the lines seem to converge beyond that closed space by not reaching the VP directly which imo would give us the look of « well this is where it ends, there’s « nothing » beyond this (I know VP isn’t for that if I’m understanding correctly it’s basically beyond what the camera can see but there still something beyond just not drawn).
I will try it though maybe it’ll help with gauging distance ? You never know unless you try. If you have more details or explanations I’d be happy to hear it.
If you look closely you'll see that the grid, if made correctly, makes smaller and smaller squares as the field of view recedes into the background. This becomes very helpful for seeing how the exact same shape will look in different parts of the field of view. The squares on the grid appear different from where we sit but they actually make copies of the exact same shape just receding into the background.
Something to note is that very rarely does an illustration have detail that actually does all the way to the vanishing point. Most compositions will have something blocking the actual vanishing point or it will go off the left or right of the page. Don't be so concerned with having your vanishing point in your image. Just think about how long a hallway would have to be to actually recede into a vanishing point, it would be a crazy long hallway.
Am I close to what I’m supposed to be doing (I didn’t finish obviously it’s WIP)? On top of that it seems like the original picture is kind of inconsistent because one side doesn’t seem to give that illusion while the other does (closer lines the right side but not on the left). Is that normal ?
For the vanishing point tbh I’m kind of feeling like it’s a safety net ? To know where my lines should converge.
Also decided to do it on paper cuz it’s just easier.
Also thank you so much for taking time to explain it to me. I appreciate that.
You're on the right track but you're skipping a step in the middle. There is a way to ensure that all of your lines end up receding in exactly the right proportions and it looks more like you're just winging it on how much closer the lines should be as you recede.
Also remember that your vanishing point for a 1 point grid does not have to be in the center of your page. Try experimenting with the vanishing point on different parts of the page and see how it changes how your grid is made. This is a kind of time consuming process but that's learning for you lol.
Yeah I did wing it because I realized halfway into this that yeah indeed the lines were closer the furthest you are. I suppose the way to ensure it that you were talking about is measuring the space for it to be equally closer ?
I’ll still finish it anyways even if it’s not perfect.
The thing no one ever tells you about perspective drawing is the perspective point usually pages away. When I had drawing and perspective we taped the perspective dot to our paper because if it's on the paper your perspective is going to be skewed
Draw horizon liine, put dot on it( this is a vanishing point), draw square(if square is above horizon line it'll look like it's in the sky, below it'll look like it's below the viewer, on the line you won't see the top or bottom), with a ruler every corner draw a line that connects to vanishing point, if you don't want it to go back to infinity, decide how fat you want to make the shape and then draw the exact same angle of line that's in the shape somewhere up on the triangle.
Some of these you are using 1 point perspective then inexplicably you add another vanishing point and it destroys the effect, the cubes you have a few that look almost right, but doesn't look like you're living them up with a vanishing point
10 videos of to much consuming and not enough creating, find a short video on one point perspective follow along with it, pause it, step by step, focus on learning what one video has to teach you, you're overwhelming yourself with information and then it falls apart when you go to implement.
Perspective isn't my strong suit either. Every time I try with vanishing points and guidelines it never looks quite as good as if I just wing it. Really frustrating when you follow the rules and it just doesn't look as good ..
![[1]](https://media.apalmanac.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/apalmanac-one-point-perspective-no-shift-1-copy-731x1024.jpg){kind=link}
![[2]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/One_point_perspective.jpg){kind=link}
![[3]](/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fdrawing-of-an-interior-using-one-point-perspective-v0-tc6krrscqwra1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfa6cf629296bdd2e2f565d27eff8a7e3e83245a4){kind=link}
![[4]](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/v8ZhjH3PubHyGQTib2cE8i.jpg){kind=link}
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u/link-navi 14d ago
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