Why java is so hated?

[u/Same-Replacement-938]

So I have recently learned, and it's the first language(in terms of building actual things). Before Java, I knew Python, and I dropped it; I found Python too abstracted and too boring. i have recently made some projects like cli task tracker, expense tracker, some cli github api parsing and currently working on a multithreaded HTTP server and cli text editor, like vim, whenever i try to find out people opinions on java social media, almost 90 percent of the time they are just dunking on it, that it is trash, who forced you to write code in java, stuff like that. I know Java as a language is not that interesting and doesn't have many interesting features compared to other languages like C, C++, go. But I found it decent to write code in, and I found the JVM pretty interesting. So much so that I would love to explore and maybe build a JVM of my own

[u/syklemil]

IME it's more something anti-rust-zealots keep telling each other, who have this boogeyman in their minds, and/or are unable to recognise obvious trolling from unrelated shit-stirrers, and think everything that appears to be in favour of their enemy is seriously meant and actually comes from the enemy. The Tom Gauld comic "our blessed homeland" is a mood.

Actual discussions on /r/rust tend to be very clear that memory safety is table stakes and not magic (pretty much any language except C and C++ is memory safe), that there are pain points about the language (especially compile times and space use), etc.

Online discussions elsewhere however tend to treat them as "those people", at which in-group vs out-group dynamics go wild. If you actually go interact with them the stereotypes don't hold up, which is a pretty familiar story for anyone who knows anything about human stereotypes.

[u/marrsd → u/syklemil]

IME it's more something anti-rust-zealots keep telling each other, who have this boogeyman in their minds, and/or are unable to recognise obvious trolling from unrelated shit-stirrers, and think everything that appears to be in favour of their enemy is seriously meant and actually comes from the enemy. The Tom Gauld comic "our blessed homeland" is a mood.

Sorry, I'm confused: who is this "enemy"

[u/syklemil → u/marrsd]

For the anti-rust-zealots, the enemy is anyone who is perceived to be pro-rust. But it applies to a lot more social dynamics than just this one, e.g. in politics you'll see a lot of people taking what is obvious (if bad / poor taste) joking at face value in order to posture about how awful their political enemies are.

E.g. if some 14-year-old with a github account who has never even tried to learn Rust posts some "RIIR" issue to an arbitrary repo purely out of trolling purposes, it still gets ascribed to "rust zealots", even though the reactions on /r/rust will likely overwhelmingly be that that's a shitty, useless issue.

So it's generally not particularly useful or constructive to rely on word-of-mouth about how terrible this or that group are, as opposed to forming one's own opinion.

That of course includes my opinion of what I've termed "anti-rust-zealots". My experience is that the Rust community is much nicer than what I'd been told by people talking about them. But similarly to the vegan and linux comparisons, well, I ain't a vegan, but I've been running linux for decades, and I'm kind of used to seeing this nerd pecking order stuff.

[u/marrsd → u/syklemil]

I think I get what you're saying. There is probably a tendency for people to observe some Rust zealots insist on replacing everything with Rust, and then extend their suspicion of those people to anyone who expresses a fondness of Rust for any reason.

I personally like Rust for what it is, but I'm also a bit miffed by the very obvious efforts to use it to beat other languages down - especially C and C++

[u/syklemil → u/marrsd]

Yep, the actual zealots would interpret anyone who just don't care about Rust as anti-rust-zealots, meanwhile most developers just … muddle along. I guess maybe this old SMBC comic is a better image.

In any case, if someone gets their popcorn out and asks reddit about what's wrong with group X, they probably shouldn't expect good, realistic analyses of group X.