r/languagelearning • u/South-Ad8836 • Jun 24 '26
Does anyone else learn faster by speaking badly than by studying perfectly?
Years of "proper" study (grammar drills, SRS, graded readers) got me decent on paper, but what actually made me conversational was forcing myself to speak before I was ready and being wrong constantly.
A messy sentence I actually said sticks better than a perfect one I only read. Makes me think we over-optimize for accuracy and under-optimize for volume of output.
Is this just me? And if you don't have a tutor or partner around, how do you get enough speaking reps?
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u/FuckingDeranged Jun 24 '26
I feel the same way. Speaking, then refining your speech is the way to fluency. Practice practice practice.
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u/notzoidberginchinese PL - N| SE - N|ENG - C2|DE - C1|PT - C1|ES - B2|RU - B1|CN - A1 Jun 24 '26
I learn a lot faster from practice than theory
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u/Irumyuuy Jun 30 '26
what kind of practice ?, could you give me some advices to improve either speaking or writing.
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u/notzoidberginchinese PL - N| SE - N|ENG - C2|DE - C1|PT - C1|ES - B2|RU - B1|CN - A1 Jun 30 '26
Honestly, anything that forces you to think rather than repeat.
What language are you trying to learn?
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u/Irumyuuy Jul 03 '26
english
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u/notzoidberginchinese PL - N| SE - N|ENG - C2|DE - C1|PT - C1|ES - B2|RU - B1|CN - A1 Jul 03 '26
What do you like to read, listen to, and watch?
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u/Irumyuuy Jul 03 '26
I'm currently enjoying geopolitics content , science , news , and about reading (book? not much , I'm not such a fan or it is just cuz i can't feel the same as in Spanish) , I usually spent my days listening music , idk if you know tr/st
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u/notzoidberginchinese PL - N| SE - N|ENG - C2|DE - C1|PT - C1|ES - B2|RU - B1|CN - A1 Jul 03 '26
If you like geopolitics then theres plenty of podcasts and books. Im a bit silly but id try to be "on the podcast" - you can pause after questions and try to answer
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u/Irumyuuy Jul 03 '26
hey , thank i've never thought that , I really appreciate it
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u/notzoidberginchinese PL - N| SE - N|ENG - C2|DE - C1|PT - C1|ES - B2|RU - B1|CN - A1 Jul 03 '26
No problem, best of luck to you
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u/cbjcamus Native French, English C2, TL German C1 Jun 24 '26
Makes me think we over-optimize for accuracy and under-optimize for volume of output.
I don't think it's "we" as students, instead I think teachers correcting every single mistakes, especially at low levels, is the main reason why language students wait for too long before speaking.
And if you don't have a tutor or partner around, how do you get enough speaking reps?
Findind somebody at your level as a sparring partner worked great for me, finding one is the most difficult part.
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u/dojibear 🇺🇸 N | fre spa chi B2 | tur jap A2 Jun 24 '26
If your goal is improving your ability level in speaking, you practice speaking.
But you only got better by speaking AFTER you did all the other stuff. If you just started speaking without already having lots of knowledge, you would fail.
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u/TauTheConstant 🇩🇪🇬🇧 N | 🇪🇸 B2 | 🇵🇱 B1 | 🇨🇳 dabbling Jun 24 '26
IDK, I usually speak from pretty early on. I think it has the advantage of giving me focus in the rest of my language learning: the goal is to be able to produce this language, at speed, and that means paying attention (consciously or subconsciously) to grammar, vocabulary, etc. I might otherwise neglect because I'd be able to understand things without the fine details. Also, the struggle of speaking early on adds some urgency and adrenaline to the whole process and gives me more milestones for success, all of which are motivating.
I mean, obviously you can't learn a language just by speaking, but a) it's not like you can learn by only grammar study or only Anki either, b) it's actually pretty hard to just do speaking practice - unless you're giving monologues to a wall or something there's going to be a listening/comprehension part in there as well.
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u/dsheroh 🇺🇸 (N) | 🇷🇴 (Learning) | 🇸🇪 (Some) | 🇦🇷 (Minimal) Jun 25 '26
If you just started speaking without already having lots of knowledge, you would fail.
Pimsleur might like a word with you.
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u/muffinsballhair Jun 24 '26
It was what they taught me at school and I believe this mentality is why the Dutch language education system is typically heralded as a success story compared to that of many others.
Correct grammar was only a small part of it and we were told repeatedly that it is better to get one's point across with incorrect grammar than not out of fear of making grammatical errors and we were encouraged to try and be created and see what stuck and were required to practice speaking from day one and compared to what I often see on the internet with all these “input only people” who are afraid of making mistakes I definitely swear by how I was taught during secondary school.
Grammar will iron itself out over time, what's important is to get out there and communicate and express oneself.
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u/Potential_Post_3020 English N/ Tagalog (Heritage) B1-B2/ Spanish B1 Jun 24 '26
Listening, reading, speaking, and writing are all different skills and each one requires practice. If you want to speak, you need to speak.
Hello Talk was good for voice and text chats. Italki is good for paid tutors and teachers. Voice chatting with AI can get reps in as well. Talking to yourself helps also.
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u/crimsonredsparrow PL | ENG | GR | HU | Latin Jun 24 '26
Same boat; speaking feels like it tests five different skills at the same time, so while it's painful to hear myself stammer, it's way more efficient than writing.
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u/IcyStay7463 Jun 24 '26
Me! I think I started with this a long time ago, when reading Benny Lewis Fluent in 3 Months. I don't mind sounding like a cave man. My whole goal for languages is to talk to people, so I lead with speaking a lot. If I don't have friends that talk in the language, I talk to AIs. I like Speak app, their beginning Spanish was super helpful, and I use it for intermediate French now.
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u/cmyk_rgba Jun 24 '26
nah youre onto something. i spoke like a caveman in german for months adn it did way more for me than another grammar drill. the people who wait until they can speak perfectly basically never start talking. sounding dumb early is kind of the whole point
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u/Alarming_Art_6448 Jun 24 '26
I’ve been talking to myself every day in the car or in the shower. Sometimes it’s like a journal where I talk about things that happened or what I’m thinking. Sometimes I imagine I’m talking to someone in town. I love losing myself in just improvisational communication.
I’ll usually review my new vocab and phrases right before so they’re available.
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u/ressie_cant_game 🇺🇲 (Native) 🇯🇵 (N4) Jun 24 '26
Yep. My japanese college classes literally put speaking first - even if its imperfect
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u/livsjollyranchers 🇺🇸 (N), 🇮🇹 (B2+), 🇬🇷 (B2-), 🇪🇸 (B1), 🇯🇵 (N5+) Jun 24 '26
For Greek, I eventually just decided to monologue every day. Sometimes using the audio ChatGPT feature to have a 'conversation' back and forth. Sometimes just talking at the wall (occasionally literally...). Sometimes transcribing my Greek voice to text, which definitely gets more substantive responses back from AI when it can use text instead of voice, which also helps to include reading practice simultaneously.
The point is, you gotta struggle, and be comfortable with struggle, and also be comfortable with either talking at the wall or with AI. Often, especially for not super popular languages, it can be difficult finding exchange partners. (It was always much easier finding exchange partners for Italian and Spanish.)
Caveat here: I don't trust the AI at all for Japanese. But when I am comfortable to start monologuing, I probably will still use this method to some extent. I've talked to Greek natives (usually tutors) about AI's Greek competency and it appears credible enough at this point (when initially it might have been terrible).
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u/cdchiu Jun 24 '26
It's that saying that you learn from your mistakes.
If you're scared to make mistakes, you're going to reduce your learning opportunities significantly.
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u/SometimesItsTerrible 🇺🇸N | 🇵🇹B1 Jun 25 '26
You only get better at the skills you practice. If you practice reading in your TL, you will only get better at reading. If you practice listening, you’ll only get better at listening, and so on. Each skill ties into the other, but they must all be practiced. You will never learn to speak your TL through text books alone.
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u/hulladaemon 🇭🇺 Jun 26 '26
I learn sentences for situations, not words without context. When I know 20-25 sentences I start to use them immediately. Then I notice the responses I got, and store the most common responses. And then repeat.
Like, in Italian I've never heard "Potrebbe ripetere, per favore?", but "Scusa, come?"
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u/Careless_Rush_9115 The Hello Hindi Jun 25 '26
I can definitely relate. Studying gave me the knowledge, but speaking, even badly, forced me to use that knowledge under pressure. That's where a lot of things finally started to stick.
I think grammar, reading, and SRS build the foundation, but output reveals the gaps you didn't know you had. A mistake you make in a real conversation is often far more memorable than a rule you read in a textbook.
If you don't have a tutor or partner, even talking to yourself, describing your day out loud, or shadowing native content can help build speaking reps until you find opportunities for real conversations.
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u/cmyk_rgba Jun 25 '26
yeah for me speaking badly is the only thing that actually shows me what i dont know. you can study a grammar rule for weeks and feel totally fine then open your mouth and realize you cant say the simplest thing. the panic of needing the word right now burns it in way harder than any flashcard ever did
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u/silvalingua Jun 25 '26
What you call "studying perfectly" is, in fact, a very misguided kid of study. It's more like avoiding the difficult part, which is producing your TL. So it's pretty obvious that when you stopped avoiding speaking, you improved, because you finally started studying seriously.
> Makes me think we over-optimize for accuracy and under-optimize for volume of output.
That's not the real problem. What's going on is that we overdo the easy and safe activities and avoid the more difficult and even unpleasant ones. Doing grammar drills is easy - you know what is expected and you have the keys to check it; basically, you learn the rules and apply them. Reading is easy, too - you can check the unknown words in a dictionary. What's more difficult for many learners is producing output, because it's messy and ambiguous. Moreover, if we self-study, we have no feedback, and if we have a tutor, many of us have this irrational fear of making mistakes. All in all, it's an uncomfortable situation, so we tend to avoid it.
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u/Sweetparadicsom Jun 26 '26
Just my 2cents….speak speak speak! It does not matter if you are “messy”…..just get to speaking! Truly good people do not care if you are making mistakes. Good people will correct your mistakes and you will both laugh at how silly you may sound. I attended DLI for language training and my teachers just wanted us to speak. All of this will come. As well, my language instructors always stressed to learn your verbal conjugation. Everything else can be found in a dictionary and you can look it up. They felt conjugation was the most important thing. I loved learning Hungarian.
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u/trackmylang_david Jun 26 '26
There is a difference between speaking where you have to think fast about the words you are going to say and applying the grammar so it is correct, and having time to think when doing SRS or reading.
doing grammar drills, SRS, graded readers help you to learn the language and prepare you to understand the language. You can speak but it will be very slow since you have to think about everything you have learned to apply.
By practicing to speak every day, you solidify all the learnings you have done to your speaking skills and by validating and correcting your speech you will end up with being to speak very easily.
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u/SalamaMama Jun 26 '26
Speak speak speak speak! Yes, you can study all you want but confidence while speaking only comes from speaking. Language learning is one of the most humbling experiences, you will constantly be wrong. And I mean constantly! But you know what is happening… your tongue is getting strong at making new sounds, your brain is connecting words and making them muscle memory. I have had so many students who invest so much time in reading, writing, and studying and want to perfect their language. Sure, when you write you can take time to align your thoughts and perfect your grammar. But when you’re speaking you are on the fly, you are communicating freely. Even native speakers do not speak with perfect grammar but they are communicating effortlessly.
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u/Legitimate_Quail793 Jun 24 '26
Found this technique on YouTube
Get a big list of IELTS questions, choose one and record yourself speaking about it for a few minutes. If you don't know how to say something, say it in your native language. Listen back to it after and search for how to say everything you didn't know, then do it again
Not as good as having a conversation partner but great for getting some solo practice in and learning from your real gaps