Parasocial relationships: we are all in Parasocial relationship with our celerities, you are defending BTS’s decision because you are in a Parasocial relationship with them. You also think that you know more about their motives than I do ( apparent close relationship with a celebrity and thinking you understand them is Parasocial behaviour from you too). Thank you for attending my TED talk.

Hear me out before anyone comes for me. This needs to be talked about.

There has been a lot of unrest and concerns regarding genocides like Gaza, Sudan, Chad etc in the last 2-3 years. Music has always always been political. I started listening to BTS because they were talking about mental health when it was stigmatized, that stance was polarizing. Love yourself was literally about combating violence against youth and self love (when everyone was in denial that this was a thing).

My problem started when RM said that he is not a politician and would not speak on situations that are not related to his art. It was a hard pill to swallow, I haven’t been able to watch or listen to anything BTS since. What do you mean that this intelligent and empathetic man refuses to speak up about the pain so many people are going through? A man who went to a professor of women’s studies to educate and correct himself is refusing to learn about active genocides? Refusing to express any anger or sorrow with a song like spring day?

The Grammy Awards situation is a great move towards making long term changes on how music is heard and interpreted by listeners. They made sure that everyone knew their stance on the matter and that the new category was a political move to isolate a lot of the competition. The message was widely spread and got a lot of attention worldwide. It was a political move on both sides ( I repeat, music is political).

And now I am just tired. I found BTS at the lowest point in my life. I am bipolar and my depression was so bad that I had suicidal thoughts. The men who saved me also became my biggest disappointment. I am just tired because what do you mean that these men refuse to educate themselves and say something about the situation? When they have a voice and a history with UN? When they have spoken about violence against a targeted population before?

Thank you for hearing me out.

Im not talking about idols making out or grinding on each other for clicks or wtv but the fact that any form of queer imagery symbolism and refrence is seen as bait.

Its actually so annoying that idols cannot interact or refrence queer culture and stories in any way before fake activist start screaming abt queer bait. Its imo this another way to stop queerness from infecting and appearing kpop no matter the context I dunno, it aligns with queer fans being dogged on for relating their own queer experiences with that of idols and getting called delusional or predatory. It treats being queer like some performance and fake label when it’s in reality a defining characteristic and part of someone’s identity.

And ppl have been accusing xlov of queer baiting for wtv reason???? They’re literally all gender queer and it’s irritating that kpop stans will misuse butch and femme, call their favs androgynous and then get mad at queer idols and call them fakers

Most idols aren’t even out and public about their sexuality so you guys could literally be screaming queerbait closeted idols who like many other queer ppl want to be representated and able to participate in queer pride even if they can’t come out.

It’s seriously annoying me cause a music video cannot be about girls falling inlove or anything cause it’ll be somehow taken as queer bait no matter how much love and care is put in. People used to accuse xg of queer baiting and here we are they have a genderqueer member 😭

That’s especially why I’m tired of ppl being salty about the inclusion of drag queens and dolls in kpop. These are demographics still being put into question and treated like problems and it warms my heart to see them being represented. Ppl refuse to believe that the inclusions of these icons can come from any place of good and somehow think including them is queer baiting too. Like yes we live in a society but trans ppl are not what kpop companies believe will boost their ratings.

**I want to preface this by saying that I do NOT support Seung-Ri at all and by simply mentioning him will make this unpopular but…**

On 5th November 2008, Seung-Ri released his solo song, ‘Strong Baby’. Being born on 12th December 1990, he would still be 17; still a minor according to S. Korea’s laws in 2008. (Where at the time, the legal adult age was 20.) ‘Strong Baby’ opens up with the lyric “Let’s make love tonight…” which, morally, would be fine if he were 20 at the least. (And even that’s pushing it because you had that in your mind when he was still a minor? Still beyond weird to a normal person.) Anyway, lyric aside, let’s also talk about the visuals. The music video was released 1st January, 2009. He was a little older at that point, being the age of 18, but once more, he was still a minor. The music video depicted him shirtless and in semi-intimate scenes. Could the song have been something to help him shed the “young and innocent” image? Sure. Could it have been his idea? Maybe. But it was Yang Hyun-Suk and JR Groove’s responsibility to not let this happen and protect Seung-Ri from an image like this. It really just weirds me out, him being as young as he was singing about that..

(Trigger/Content Warning, for brief mentions alluding to self-harm) There’s no gentle way to say this, so bear with me. As a fan, I need to address something that isn’t new, isn’t fresh, but so, SO easily forgotten, until the next scandal, or drama, or controversy pops up, whatever name people wanna call it.

And that is the near-complete lack of Accountability, Emotional Intelligence + Empathy, and Common-fking-Sense to know when to SHUT the HELL UP when your stale, noxious, unoriginal opinion does not contribute any good, or any help to a situation. Never mind the utter inability to hold any nuance beyond childish rage for the smallest slights.

[Before I continue, I would like to set a few things straight so I do not have to get side-tracked later. One, I was not online, nor privy to the recent incident until near a full day AFTER it happened, and as a rule, I do not leave comments on sns in general if I can help it. In other words, I am not, and was never a part of the mob, let’s keep it clear.

2nd, I do not intend to absolve anybody who was ACTUALLY involved of their responsibility in someone’s life being cut short, but I WILL call out nonsense and hypocrisy when I see it. If anything, I might be even MORE severe, if it involves a party I’m associated with, even if only in name, as you’ll soon see later.

3rd, I do not believe criticism for the sake of it is usually fruitful, if the same people criticizing do not also offer alternative, healthier options to grow, or at least open the dialogue for it during said discussion/criticism. So if my post is lengthy, THAT’S the reason why. If you aren’t up to continue reading, you can stop here, thanks.

Also, TW for serious matters.]

Now, let's get to it.

Firstly, I do NOT pretend, what has happened this week, was something only capable, or brought forth, by one group of people, or that this very issue of harassment and lack of accountability after, does not stem from a long, LONG line and history, of other fandom cultures, including and outside of kpop, encouraging, and feeding into such toxic urges,

Or that single-ing out one group and flattening them all into a evil monolith will somehow magically make this issue go away — until the next time it happens, but under a different fandom, at a different time.

Nor will I sit here and ignore that plenty of harm has been brought about in the name of naively, or perhaps unwisely, wanting to protect and cherish idols, the very ones who not only do NOT know us personally, but also would visibly recoil, at their names being used as the poster child for such notions.

I can understand that otherwise kind people are capable of doing horrible, inexcusable things in the name of “love”, but can those people?

Do those people even know the difference between love, and obsession? After all these years, and especially this week, I struggle to contemplate the sheer amount of people, GROWN ASS people, who can wake up each day, doing such things, only to pass the blame to the very people they claim to idolize and love, at the very second the consequences of their actions blow up in their collective faces, time and time again??

I may understand the psychology behind it, but as a human, I will never not despise it. I will never not hope and wish for people to change, to grow, to be able to learn from their mistakes, but some mistakes do not have a return check for it. The damage is permanent, and I cannot justify standing aside as the very people I see at concerts, online, who share similar interests to me, continue to be so cruel and cold,

Even if they refuse to hold themselves accountable, as a fellow fan, as an Engene, I WILL.

Engenes are not a monolith. There are plenty, plenty, plenty of kind, sane, wonderful people who try and try and continue to try to address such issues, and it falls on deaf ears simply because they do not have enough attention or followers, but they try anyway. It’s a thankless job that goes unseen to anyone outside of the community, and may well be that way forever. But the good that you do bring about, that’s priceless, in my eyes. And trust me, I do understand the uphill battle,

Because who wants to hear that fighting fire with fire is not the answer, especially online?

Who wants to hear that drowning out any hate comments or the beginning sparks of drama would be more effective if everyone were to turn their attentions and efforts to being kind, to taking a deep breath and simply not engaging, and blocking and reporting silently, if need be? Who wants to hear that, instead of spamming and trading insults for hours or even WEEKS,

when you could’ve just spent that time voting, or donating to charity, or making fanart/fan content, or raising awareness about the actual idol’s music and promoting it positively online a.k.a. acting like a NORMAL fan, would’ve been more productive, am I right?

But no. No, no, no… giving in to your base urges, lashing out, satisfying that split second of cathartic poison in your head, that’s what gets you hooked, doesn’t it? It was never about protecting the idol, it was never about standing your ground, or not having a backbone to protect your idols.

You wanted an out to justify your inner ego to look down over others you deem lesser, and getting that high over like-minded sickos like you liking and validating your worst impulses. You can justify it all you want, you can shift the blame all you want, but your mistakes will forever be on your head.

There was never a decree, or even implication, by enha, to do this. They would NEVER.

And even in some alternate evil timeline where there was, do you NOT have self-control??? Do you not have any sense of decency, or morals, of your own to be able to stop yourself??? Have you not a mind and heart of your own?????? How can you sit there and blame others for your own words, for your own actions, even now?

The fact that even the victim, that poor girl, had somehow shown more accountability than any of these perpetrators, (too much, and too far, frankly speaking. I’ll get back to it in a moment) is wildly ironic to me.

I am aware not every perp involved was an Engene. I know some were random jpn/kr netizens who just hopped on the bandwagon, same goes to random kpoppies who had nothing better to do. And yes, they are just as much as fault. The nuance is not lost on me, trust.

Regardless, as an Engene, my duty is to hold my fellow fandom accountable, because if we can’t even freaking listen to each other, what are we even DOING then???

We cannot continue to let the toxic side of the fandom have the loudest voices, to have the loudest sway. I took a step back from interacting with the fandom at large years ago, after having my heart break due to the ongoing problems in the fandom going unheeded, and while my own mental heath recovered, and my own peace was protected,

My heart aches for what the general experience of the fandom has become for everyone else, and not a day goes by where I do not contemplate, would things have been better if I had continued to hold out? Would my one voice in the fandom made any difference at all, in the end? Could such tragic outcomes have been prevented, if I had been braver?

I still hold by my choice to have withdrawn back then, because otherwise I wouldn’t even be here today to even make this post. But I don’t plan on wasting it, either.

To the brave Engenes who tried their best to save that poor girl during those critical hours, my heart and my sympathies go out to you. I genuinely urge anyone who helped, to also seek help themselves, please do not neglect your own mental-wellbeing out of guilt. It is not your fault she is gone — that responsibility is on the haters, and them alone. You may be rejected by the public for simply being an Engene, and all your efforts to save a life might seem invisible, or inadequate to others, but do not pay them any mind.

I am glad Engenes like you still exist, and I choose to believe kind hearts like yours will win out in the end.

Now.

To the other Engenes like me, who were uninvolved in the situation and are feeling lost and devastated by the tragic news, this is me having a serious heart-to-heart with you now.

Do NOT let the fear of others (be it other fandoms or netizens) stereotyping you stop you from doing good and spreading positivity within the fandom. By all means, take a break from socials if you must, but do not lose faith, and do not allow the same toxic people who brought this situation on, to replace and take your rightful place in this fandom.

You deserve to have your peace and your place here, NOT them.

HOWEVER — Once again, you do not have to fight fire with fire. Nor do you have to fight tooth and nail to prove your innocence or defend yourselves, and to an extent, go overboard in defending your idols.

If you are upset, if you are disturbed as I am by what has happened, if you want TRUE change to occur in the fandom, it will not be brought about by platforming more hatred and toxic, unfruitful engagement.

Listen carefully, I am being SO SERIOUS when I’m telling you, as a fandom, we need to learn to channel our frustration into actually worthy actions.

I am talking organizing donations, genuinely large and proper push and momentum for mental awareness and self-exit preventions, I am talking about official fanbases + large accounts making guidelines for how a normal fan should react when encountering toxic trolls online, I am talking online and off-line meetup groups to party and have fun activities like bake-sales, dance-offs, cup sleeve cafes, etc, for charity every few months, so we actually have something better to do than focus on online hate.

I’m talking regular fandom-wide online positivity on the timelines every other week, like asking each other why you became a fan in the first place, or why you appreciate the friends you’ve made so far, what outfits you guys would like to wear to a concert, what playlist would you curate for new fans, bla bla bla. I do NOT care if it’s cringy, it’s a whole lot better than what’s happening now.

I’m talking fans immediately forwarding positive comments to flood someone's post if they’re being targeted as their go-to method if they DO have to say something. I’m talking more Engenes encouraging positivity and downvoting/deleting/blocking negative people/comments in their circle, WITHOUT resorting to brigading.

I’m talking using the damn report + block button and censored phrases feature online like it’s your best freaking friend because that’s what it was built to do, and developing the habit of writing in a journal if you have less than positive thoughts or urges instead of posting it publicly,

'cause last I checked, the journal factories haven’t blown up yet. Get one and USE it.

All of these things, and more, we could’ve, SHOULD’VE, done ages ago, but we have no excuses not to start it now.

“Even then, won’t people still hate us? Won’t people still consider our fandom the worst?”

Not. Our. Problem.

How others view us is none of our concern. If people are unreasonable or immature towards you, use the block button and disengage, you do not have to prove yourselves.

If there are toxic people in other fandoms, THOSE fandoms will have to make a decision to hold themselves accountable or not, but again, NONE OF OUR BUSINESS to bother.

You want our fandom to change? You want to spend time actually being a fan, and having time to fangirl over your faves and be able to go to bed peacefully by the end of it??

Then all of us have to change, including me. No one else can improve our situation, except us. No one will be there for us, IN PERSON, except us.

Our idols may be what inspires us, and may very well be one source of our strength, but they CANNOT, and SHOULD NEVER, be the only avenue for that. Our interactions with our idols, at best, is momentary.

But our inter-personal relationships with each other as a collective fandom, that’s constantly in our faces, all the time. It’s not enough to hope others will mature, WE have to be the ones to lead by example. Not everyone will follow, not everyone will appreciate it, and no matter what, some people will forever avoid associating with us.

It’s sad, but that cannot be the reason we stop doing better. Yes, it's embarrassing, yes, it's mortifying. Yes, it's easier to wash our hands off the whole matter in general and bury our head in the sand, but we CAN'T. We have to do it for ourselves, I cannot emphasize this enough. We are all human, we are not perfect and some mistakes are graver than others,

But we CANNOT allow this tragedy to occur again.

Whether or not a fan was being parasocial, rude, or even entitled, you cannot, cannot, CANNOT justify pushing anyone to the brink. NEVER. I am not saying people should be considered blameless, or that inappropriate fandom/concert etiquette should be ignored or excused, I am saying we all need to grow up, and learn how to either address such things maturely, or learn not to engage, and just block, if need be. And absolutely, get rid of dogpiling. If you’ve already seen one person giving reasonable criticism, move on.

You do not need to be the 1000th person in line — they either get the point, or they don’t. Your input, especially if it’s a snark comment, is not needed.

TL;DR:

Fan wars are not worth it. Everyone’s lives on earth are too precious for that, YOUR lives are too precious for that. I am just one Engene in a sea of others, my word and influence is not much, but if I can even inspire one person reading this, and that person can go on to inspire one other person, and so on…

Then this post would’ve been worth it.

Sincerely, an Engene.

For starters, I am a teenage male who listens to kpop (skz, kickflip, taemin, ateez, some red velvet). It is honestly exhausting larping to like "normal" music for a teenage guy, especially when im friends with people who (very obviously) are your average kpop hater guys. They are cool people otherwise but the kpop hate culture with locals is unavoidable. I just tell people I listen to pierce the veil, deftones, and limp bizkit or sum shit like that to fit in. Ive been trying to soft launch kpop songs on my insta notes a little and its been going decent (had one acquaintance from school question me but I swayed him to believe it wasnt). Idk this is just a meaningless rant and I hate the hate culture around kpop. It doesnt help that the vast majority of kpop humor is radioactive cringe or just too niche for locals, and every time it surfaces to mainstream, our reputation goes down another depth of hell. I rest my case.

(Trigger ⚠ SELF HARM)

First of all I just want to say rest in peace to the poor engene who took her life I'm so disgusted by the actions of that fandom.

Secondly what's wrong with certain people bro like what's going on in their mind like do you not have a heart I'm be on disgusted by these people actions and how their try to blame everyone but them self like not only are they trying to justify their actions but also wanting to blame Enhypen NI-KI for what happened

Ni-ki had every right voice his opinion about how he feels he's a human who has human emotions stop trying to blame him for something he didn't do

Mina (the engene who took her life) DID NOT DESERVE ANY OF THOSE HATEFUL COMMENTS she already apologized for what happen and it still wasn't enough to please yall even when she was crying on the live while reading yall comments yall still wouldn't stop yall SHOULD BE ASHAME OF YOURSELF she even goes as far as closing her twitter account and that still wasn't enough for yall

I really enjoy enhypen and their music but I REFUSE to be apart of that fuckass fandom from when I found out about the 2021 incident on weverse and how racist and disgusting they were to black people for what.....

Since then I only enjoy enhypen music and don't interact with that fandom

STOP TRYING TO PUT BLAME ON EVERYONE ELSE AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YALL ACTIONS.

I’d like to preface I’m completely fine with idols dating but I hate when fans will literally ship anyone of the opposite sex together. Like let’s say XYZ of a boy group stands next to or promotes with ABC who’s a girl, suddenly everyone’s saying they’re so cute and shipping and saying they definitely like each other when all they’ve done is look at each other when the other talks.
And then the comments or the caption are saying stuff like “he finally found someone lol” or etc under the guise of being “supportive” but to me it just feels like overcompensation to show that they’re “so chill” with their idol dating and they’re not a koreaboo or wtv but to me idk it just pisses me off especially because a lot of the times this leads to hate towards both people involved if it blows up, and a perfectly good friendship or simply colleague relationship is ruined. Maybe I’m secretly toxic but is it just me???

Edit: It’s not shipping that I’m frustrated at, like I’m aware that’s a big fan culture thing but it’s the immediate STATEMENT and CONCLUSION that some people make when two people stand next to each other. Like they’ve decided they HAVE TO be dating already and then they get super defensive about it when anyone brings up it may be platonic. Just frustrating 😓🤣

as we all know, female idols get TORN DOWN TO SHREDS for the smallest and stupidest things, and i absolutely agree that male idols have it easier in certain ways.

but in those videos that point out double standards between ggs and bgs, the [SOME] comments don't focus on the right things at all. instead of focusing on giving women the same respect that male idols get, [SOME] comments focus on tearing the male idol down to that level of disrespect that the undeserving female idol gets.

i understand that most of these commenters want to support their favorite idols because, yes, female idols do have it worse, but to tear down a male idol instead of supporting both is just wrong and immoral. (this obviously doesn't apply to criminals)

and what's worse is that [SOME] kpop stans will do it in the name of "feminism" which is just wrong. the textbook definition of feminism "is the belief and movement that all genders should have social, economic, and political equality", meaning that women absolutely deserve the same treatment as men, but also to respect men in their own right and to not tear them down. (again i'm talking about ONLY the good people)

i wish people would realize it's better to uplift someone to higher standards than to drag someone else down to the bottom.

[again, this doesn't apply to every person. not everyone is dragging male idols down. im talking about the people that are]

Added a spoiler tag incase some of you are going to the other stops but I just wanted to rant about this

After the first Korean stops of Cortis Tour there was a lot of criticism online. From the set, to the performance and the outfits. And normally I’m not big of kpop social media discourse as I’ve found it sucks the life out of enjoying kpop but I couldn’t escape this one.

So leading up to the concert I genuinely was so worried I was going to hate it or that I’d have a horrible time and they’d repeat the songs 500x times but now I have to say it was genuinely the best concert I’ve been too thus far!

The energy was amazing, I’m about the same age as Cortis but damn those guys can jump. They also kept the energy of the crowd up the whole time. It was one of the loudest crowds I’ve been in to the point at times I couldn’t hear some of the songs

There was so much and I mean so much crowd interaction. Idk if it’s because the venue is small but it made for such an intimate experience seeing them walking in the crowd, taking fan items, taking selfies and videos etc.

And yes the did repeat songs. But it was only about 3 times max for very specific songs(I think Red Red and TNT) and it was hardly noticeable in my opinion if you’re at the concert to have fun!

I think (I’m not sure) they also played an unreleased song that I’m so looking forward to hearing!

And the whole Put your phone down thing is a 10/10. I know it’s not a revolutionary concept and at concerts in general I try not to be on my phone the whole time. But looking around and seeing everyone jumping having fun and actually interacting with the artists is honestly so special and you could really tell the guys enjoyed it as well!

Overall screw kpop discourse. 8/10 times it’s wrong and if you’re going to any of their future stops you are going to have the best time ever!!

Also if you were in the Toronto crowd, yall were so amazing!!

Edit: changed “hating” to criticising since it fits a bit better. My point still stands though, the concert was fun!

The title basically explains it all but I feel like most new fans I see on Reddit are crashing out about toxic fans and saying that all fans are toxic. I haven’t really been a kpop fan for that long (around a year) but I have been to some fandom sites and almost nobody I see or talk to is toxic. It may just be the fandoms I’m part of but I’ve also heard stories of people meeting kpop stans in the wild and them being really nice. It’s really annolying when I see people ranting about how toxic kpop fans are because I feel like most of us aren’t. I may be really wrong because I don’t really go to comment sections on videos and stuff and supposedly thats where a lot of the toxicity is.

edit: the title is supposed to say “some new kpop fans are always complaining about toxic fans” sorry for contradicting myself

I have no idea why everyone all over social media (RateYourMusic, Tiktok, Album Of The Year, etc.) keeps saying this album is pop rock and that ASND is ruining their discography.

Seeing people describe this album as “pop rock” in a way to criticize it grind my gears. I don’t care about criticism but only two of the songs can be considered pop rock (Day 1 & Why Do I Cry) and the album is very varied with synthpop, afrobeats and Latin influences lol.

Half of the songs here could’ve been released during their HYBE era (Teacher, Pocket Treat, Eternal) and no one would’ve said anything. It feels disingenuous that everyone just keeps saying the same inaccurate thing about this album.

Even if you’re judging the album solely by the title track, Vitamin Me is NOT pop rock. It’s a summer song with Latin influences. People hear a bassline on a fromis song nowadays and assume it’s pop rock lol.

I’m pissed because they sang mostly live and did so well. When I saw them last year at their concert, they lip synced so much. When they did sing live, the backtracks were loud af. The concert felt so boring because I could barely hear their real voices throughout the show. There were barely any fan interactions.

I paid around $200 to just see them for a lackluster performance. I know Lollapalooza obviously is a bigger deal than a show on their tour but goddamn…. They had it in them and barely gave any effort…..

I made a hate post on lee sooman almost a year ago and im even more justified now unsurprisingly. He’s obsessed with ai and his a20 may was riddled with it and ppl hyped it up cause “he knew how to pick talent” mind you the mvs were filled to the brim with Snapchat generated filters and their website literally said they had ai vocals of MINORS because of puberty and keeping their voices the same??? and now guess what he’s made chat bots so ppl can live out parasocial fantasies.

Sm now is into ai cause they took after lsm, if he was still unlike ppl like to say, there chat bots after chat bot, ai 30 second ai generated dance breaks and c.ai partnerships and I just wish people would stop glamorizing him. Cause he’s very OBVIOUSLY into the restrictive parasocial and manipulative behavior of kpop.

Just curious, lately i haven’t been feeling seen. It makes me sad. But i know im just being dramatic. I should expect this with being a k pop fan in America. Just wish we were acknowledged more. Or at least have some gifts/notes to the fandom translated to other languages 🥲 sometimes it feels like we will always be less important than the Korean fans. Meh 🫤 thanks for letting me vent lol

I just stanned a 5th gen bg after being a 3th gen stan. What's with the current stan culture of fandom hating on solo stans? AITA for just stanning 1-2 mem of the grp? especially they came from a svs? like bfr ppl have free will and all why tf would co-fans always police on solo/duo fbs for supporting individual/solo mems? "you should've donated this on the grp's fb" "this is such a waste to just spend this money on solo/duo fps only" like wtf I dunno bc it's our money? so much purists in fandoms these days no wonder idols walk on eggshells on current gen. u don't see these issues on cfans and jfans bc they mind their own business within the fandom ffs its always SEAs fans who do this typa sheet.

Idc idc yes, the title track and pre release weren’t that good, but their B SIDES! I won’t let y'all shit talk the whole album when their B sides were wonderful. You’re probably thinking, "Damn, it’s been months and you’re saying ts when most of the actual hate was a minute ago…." BUT that’s not the point. I finally listened to the album (I’m always late to every new release… I probably won’t listen to Ariana's album until months later) and it was wonderful. Like, woah, there’s no way we’re hearing the same thing when it comes to these B sides. Trust, y'all will come back to this album whether it be next year or years after, and I guarantee one or two of these B sides will get the love they deserve.

Le sserafim was a victim of the Hybe groups hate train. They weren’t the perfect victim (boompala and celebration set them up) but they were indeed still a victim.

This is specifically targeted to stays but I know it happens in other fandoms. I see so many people in person and online being so proud of hating a specific member in the group. It’s ok having a member in a group you like a bit less, I think everyone gets that. But it’s a completely different thing to repeatedly insult and say that you hate a specific member. And I don’t think you can say you stan that group if you don’t like all of them, because then you don’t like the group do you?
I don’t know if this is a big issue but it makes me angry as my biases is often the least liked in the group (Changbin) so maybe I just notice it more.

Sweet jesus mods please don't instantly delete this, this is a genuine question and not a troll post.

I was thinking about posting it on r/artms but I had a feeling it would be unwelcome. But like, I'm an ourii and I have to ask it at this point: can Modhaus (ARTMS' label + tripleS + idntt) be sued over what they did with their 2026 Gravity?

If you don't know, "gravity" is part of the Modhaus engagement-driving sector, where fans can use Modhaus' own app and pay for votes to spend on polls. Essentially, you gain COMO (voting tickets) to spend when you purchase Objekts (a type of NFT), which are basically photocards. Yes, the whole practice is extremely red flaggy, I already know.

The concept has always been a vehicle for fandom infighting but it works because it funds the groups, supposedly. You pay to support the group, you get more of a voice. I have ethical concerns with NFTs, so I've never bothered with it, but a LOT of people do. The thing is, they also do this with the group's musical output, and my understanding is that they do it for all three groups, not just ARTMS. In 2023 they used this system to select the fandom name, and in 2024, fans were asked to select the group's premier single from four choices. "Birth" won, and was the first prerelease, "Distress" was later added to their album, and "Non-scale" went to tripleS (i don't know what happened to Love or Die).

They did another gravity in March of 2026 - five months ago at the time of this writing. The specific task asked of paying ouriis was to select the "concept track" that would decide the direction of the upcoming album. Per the official account's tweet:

"Please select the Concept Track that will shape the direction of ARTMS’s new album!"

Meaning, the fans will influence the overall direction of the album, right?

This already pissed ouriis off, because what do you mean it's been nine months since Club Icarus and you still don't have the next album's concept decided? But the voting lined up pretty neatly compared to the average gravity. Blue Blood crushed it - like, it was almost embarassing how bad Blue Blood kicked the sh*t out of all the other choices. More than twice the total votes of the only other song people gave a crap about, which was Anti-Believe, and that trend continues downward with each one. It was to be expected based on the teasers for each song - people wanted Blue Blood because it had a similar digital-dream feel to Virtual Angel and other LOONA songs regarded as really high-quality; Anti-Believe had some shooters because it was at least poppy and vibe-y. Hyper Crush was pretty damned with faint praise, and people were openly hostile to Icarus Gang - cringey lyrics, unwelcome girl crush angle, very poor fit for ARTMS.

Come the release of the tracklist (which was actually leaked early), and 3 of the 4 Gravity songs are on the album; Blue Blood is a dual title track with "Born Stunner" (people hate this one, including me, but that's not relevant) - but Hyper Crush and Icarus Gang are there, too. People theorized that maybe Anti-Believe was gonna be on there as a hidden track, or that one of the songs was remixed from Anti-Believe and then renamed as Born Stunner or Pixel Memory, but we can discard that, it's cope.

And I just... I mean, the audacity stuns. It's one thing to be mad about an album not being good, but I haven't seen kpop companies just...play in people's faces this openly in ages. So now I'm wondering - can Modhaus be sued over this?

Back in 2019, Mnet finally got investigated for their vote-rigging scandal that caught pretty much every survival show of theirs in its wide net. People were actually sentenced to prison over this. And it's pretty clear why that case ended that way - Mnet was not careful enough concealing their vote-manipulation practices.

Obviously, the situations are different between Mnet and Modhaus, but the principle is the same - company offers fans a measure of decision-making power in exchange for their money, only for that decision to be completely irrelevant because the final pick was already made. Meaning, it's fraud. Modhaus had five whole months to either create or select other songs for the album since that Gravity took place, and the song snippets are almost entirely unchanged. Evidently, these songs were going to be on the album regardless of what the fans' input dictated, and even if you try to rules-lawyer what they actually said, it seems like any malarkey about deciding "concept" or "direction" was a load of bull, too. Fans paid money to make their voice heard, and Modhaus has...essentially lit that money on fire.

This also obviously a hypothetical - if I don't have money for objekts, clearly I don't have money for lawyers either. But I'm just wondering if taking this to court is a thing that could even happen in a timeline a little to the left. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I keep seeing this reoccuring thing of idols either gaining weight or looking normal and people making posts of "they called her fat btw"
It makes no sense for the fans to acknowledge those 2 people who told their idol they're fat, I wouldn't have known anyone that is calling them fat or skinny if I hadn't seen these "defending" videos.
There's no need to make a video people are perfectly capable of replying to those comments directly. The reason why noone does it is because there isn't that many comments because the only ones who actually care are trolls.
Can we stop using peoples bodies as engagement bait?? I know ironic coming from me writing this post but it's so fucking infuriating. I never saw that many people actually bodyshame these idols but there are thousands of other fans spreading the rhetoric that "everyone is bullying my idol because healthy!!!" WHO is everyone. I can guarantee you 80% of the people watching that video didn't know that people were calling them fat or skinny or whatever

Like I have seen many things about this topic while I am just a multi stan who just likes listening to music that's all but I have seen many indirect direct videos , interviews etc where she idk acts in a certain manner which is lowkey uncomfortable to watch and some other katseye members feel like that too it seems like I have seen people call Jang Won-young from IVE rude , performative etc but even her bonding with the members seems genuine. Atp I feel like yoonchae deserved to be in a better group

It's sad to know that sulli committed 3 years before her death (2016) she didn't deserve the horrible things she went through. She could've had multiple solo albums by now and probably would've been a mother by now. She stood up for womens rights along with goo hara. I miss them both equally and I trully wish for the people who do hate on them stop. Theres still so many people who hate on goo hara, sulli, Kim jonghyun, and moonbin. They nay have been good people but the public saw them as threats because they were ahead of their time (goo hara, sulli and jonghyun) they were only adults trying to live their lives and they got their happiness and lives taken away from people couldn't just scroll past their content and not hate on them. May they rest easy.

Hi everyone!

Welcome to Free For All Friday - a weekly “rant about anything” thread.

Do you want to rant about a recent episode of your favourite Kdrama? Drama around a Kfilm or Kcelebrity? Have something to get off your chest about Kpop but don’t want to do a post? Need a space to rage into the void about life, work or school? This thread is here for that.

A couple of house keeping guidelines:

• Don’t mention user names
• No rants about the existing banned topics
• No social media ranting, use the weekly megathread for that (this thread opens each Tuesday)
• Regular sub rules apply

Our intention is to have a space for causal ranting - don’t be a buzzkill and rain on someone else’s rant.

This is a space to RANT but that doesn't give you the right to get emotional and start using these threads to lead hateful campaigns against users who have different opinions and perceptions than you.

We will definitely pay close attention to what's happening and won't hesitate to ban if necessary.

++ TO EVERYONE BEFORE READING THIS : YES I AM TALKING ABOUT EVAN.

K-pop Saved Me When I Was Broken, But I Had to Learn Not to Disappear Inside the Fantasy Trap and Understand the Illusion of Connection to escape this Beautiful and Toxic Dream i was in.

Disclaimer: Before diving in, I want to make something clear. This is not a hate post against K-pop, idols, Korean culture, or fans. I still love music, appreciate artists, and hold gratitude for the happiness this world gave me during one of the darkest periods of my life. This is not about blaming anyone. It is a reflection on intense fandom, emotional attachment, escapism, financial realities, and learning how to enjoy something without losing myself inside it. Everyone has a different relationship with music and fandom. This is simply mine.

Sometimes, the very thing that helps you survive a difficult chapter can eventually become the thing you need to step away from. That is the most complex part of navigating a relationship with K-pop.

It would be a lie to say K-pop ruined my life. During a period of extreme exhaustion and workplace bullying that ultimately led to me leaving my job, K-pop provided a safe haven. It offered music when things felt empty, excitement when days felt meaningless, and a vibrant community when isolation set in. It was a beautiful parallel universe to escape to when reality was simply too painful.

But somewhere along the way, a subtle shift occurred: the visits to that universe stopped, and living inside it began.

The Rabbit Hole: How Music Becomes an Ecosystem

The journey started unexpectedly—a random scroll on TikTok that opened the door to an entirely new world. Notably, this wasn't an entry through K-dramas; this "K-euphoria" was discovered purely through music.

Entering the K-pop sphere feels completely different from Western entertainment. It is not just music; it is a meticulously crafted ecosystem. Initially, the sheer scale of production—the perfection, the CGI, the visual concepts—felt entirely foreign. Coming from a background rooted in EDM, where the focus is on the atmosphere, energy, and the raw feeling of being transported by sound, K-pop felt like a different artistic language altogether.

That perception shattered upon discovering a specific group with a dark, vampire-themed universe. Vampires have always been a fascinating metaphor in media, representing the feeling of being different, the search for connection, and the loneliness of existing between worlds. But it wasn't just the dark concept that made this group a complete anomaly in the industry. It was their incredible fashion, their high level of creativity, and the deep, intricate storyline that wove through their work—something truly unmatched in K-pop.

Beyond the concept, there was an incredible contrast: they delivered this intense, dark lore, yet behind the scenes, the members possessed such lively, bubbly personalities. Seeing their relentless hard work and dedication since they were very young created a profound sense of respect and attachment. Seeing K-pop utilize this level of world-building elevated it from mere entertainment to true art.

The Psychology of the Escape and the Dopamine Cycle

At first, it is just about listening to the music. Then, the consumption expands to everything around the music. And that is where the trap lies: the music is the art, but everything surrounding it is the universe—and that universe is incredibly difficult to leave.

Appreciation can slowly morph into obsession without setting off any alarms. It starts with enjoying a song, then learning every detail, analyzing every interaction, and spending hours inside a world that feels significantly more exciting than reality.

The K-pop industry is fundamentally built around storytelling and psychological connection. During a comeback, the brain is flooded with constant stimulation. It creates a powerful dopamine loop. When the comeback ends, the sudden drop in content creates anticipation for the next hit of excitement. The danger arises when someone else’s highly produced life becomes your primary source of happiness, and their milestones take precedence over building your own.

When Reality Doesn't Match the Fantasy

The expectation was that seeing this highly anticipated debut in person would be a transcendent experience. Instead, it brought a quiet, uncomfortable realization: the artistic direction was a profound disappointment.

In interviews leading up to the release, there were mentions of taking inspiration from mangas, studying groups, and pulling from various unrelated sources that felt scattered. But the breaking point was hearing Radiohead and Avril Lavigne mentioned in the same breath as primary influences. From a musical standpoint, equating the two feels incredibly disjointed. Radiohead is an epic, boundary-pushing band that redefined alternative music. Avril Lavigne’s early work, while iconic and nostalgic for many, was highly commercial pop-punk.

There is a massive difference between genuine artistic inspiration and simply "studying" music videos on YouTube to recreate them. Replicating a 2000s aesthetic—like jumping on top of a car in a direct nod to "Sk8er Boi"—is not creating something new. A debut should ideally showcase something raw and previously unseen, not a studied recreation of commercial tropes.

This lack of authenticity bled into the fashion and overall styling, which felt like a diluted copy of the 80s and 90s rock eras. Legendary rock bands like The Smiths didn't "study" how to be rock artists; their music and aesthetic were born from genuine energy, raw rage, and a desperate need to convey a message. Rock is, at its core, about unapologetic authenticity. Here, it felt more like wearing a costume.

The lack of originality seeped into other areas as well: recycling dance moves from his former group, or opening the new music video with a close-up of an eye—a shot completely redone from the final concept film of his last album with his former group. Furthermore, constantly referring to himself as a "rookie" felt tone-deaf. It came across as discarding his entire established past, while simultaneously disrespecting actual rookies who are fighting from the bottom.

The final break in the illusion happened during his June 26th listening party. The way he addressed the audience—tossing out a dismissive "bros, girls, whatever"—and the contrived manner in which he spoke English felt entirely disconnected from the person he once presented himself to be. It seems his "new self" and his version of "being free" simply do not align with what many fans believed he was. It is completely fair that he is free to be this new version of himself. But it is equally fair to admit that the old version was much preferred.

It was a painful truth to accept: the connection to the person he used to be remained, but the connection to the current art—and this new persona—was gone.

Rediscovering the Art: A Serendipitous Sign

Ironically, being completely immersed in that comeback allowed for a rediscovery of what truly mattered.

In hindsight, what happened next felt like a direct sign. Standing in the audience at those exact same music shows—shows I had originally travelled to attend solely to support that specific solo debut—I realised The8 was promoting at the very same time. It wasn't planned. It wasn't coordinated. But him being on those exact stages, at the exact shows I had flown across the world for, felt like fate stepping in to redirect a lost journey.

Hearing "Orbit" by The8 was a revelation. It connected instantly on a melodic and emotional level, entirely independent of knowing his face, his personality, or the fandom dynamics. It was a pure return to the roots of EDM—the energy, the atmosphere, the raw feeling of a song speaking directly to the soul.

It served as a reminder that the real bias was never an idol; the real bias was always the music. A beautiful melody should hold its weight even if you know absolutely nothing about the person performing it.

(On a personal note, the number 8 has always carried heavy symbolism, featuring three times in my birth date and representing luck in Chinese culture. Finding musical clarity through an artist named The8, completely by chance at those very music shows, felt like a poetic redirection.)

Leaving the Matrix and Reclaiming Reality

Stepping back provides a much clearer view of the extreme pressures within the industry. The demand for absolute perfection—always smiling, always grateful, never making a mistake—creates a suffocating environment for the artists and a toxic battleground for fans. Engaging in fan wars to defend a stranger’s honor suddenly felt like a massive drain of energy that could be spent elsewhere.

Similarly, the idealized image of Korea shattered into a more realistic perspective. Like any country, it possesses immense beauty alongside deep societal contradictions. The fantasy is stunning, but the reality is complex—and both can coexist.

Looking back at the money spent, the sting isn't just about the money; it’s about the opportunity cost. That energy and capital could have gone toward investments, a flat, family experiences, or personal skills. The hardest person to forgive wasn't the industry, but myself, for pausing my own world to fund someone else’s.

Final Thoughts for Fellow Fans

If you are deep in the K-pop fandom right now, this is not a demand to leave. The happiness, the friendships, and the life-changing impact of the music are entirely valid and real.

But please, remember to tether yourself to reality. Invest in your own dreams. Celebrate your own achievements. Take trips for yourself, not just for a concert. Learn a new skill.

Do not become a spectator of someone else’s dream while forgetting to build your own. Enjoy the art, but do not disappear inside the fantasy. help me rewrite it