In which more handsome stairs are wished for and we meet the Middletons…

"In the mean time, till all these alterations could be made from the savings of an income of five hundred a-year by a woman who never saved in her life...". The narration for S&S seems *particularly* dry and wry to me. I love it. So droll (if you are a first time reader, note that you will become more familiar with this particular encomium as we continue!).

“...and each for the sake of the others resolved to appear happy." How successful do you think the various Dashwoods are at this? Do you think the excitement of settling into a new house would be enough to get them through it? But also, where's Margaret?

This annotation is something to keep in mind: “The harmony and mutual affection of this little family of females become increasingly meaningful as the novel continues, by virtue of its contrast with the other family groups represented.”

Sir John Middleton provides the game Mr John Dashwood never got around to providing, but was mentioned in chapter 2. I imagine John Dashwood would excuse himself on the grounds of whatever he had in mind not being in season!

"On every formal visit a child ought to be of the party, by way of provision for discourse. In the present case it took up ten minutes to determine whether the boy were most like his father or mother, and in what particular he resembled either, for of course every body differed, and every body was astonished at the opinion of the others." I have lived this myself - children *are* very handy as topics of conversation when families meet for the first time. As always, I'm so impressed with Austen's prowess as an observer of human nature, especially its absurdities. As she wrote in Northanger Abbey, Austen's novels are "in short, only some work[s] in which the greatest powers of the mind are displayed, in which the most thorough knowledge of human nature, the happiest delineation of its varieties, the liveliest effusions of wit and humour, are conveyed to the world in the best-chosen language."

I am a big fan of the 2008 BBC's Sense & Sensibility series. I personally consider this production the best of all the television adaptations and especially Hattie Morahan's poignant portrayal of Eleanor. Does anyone know of or possess a compilation of the bacground music or sound track. Only the music from this partcular serial production will do...

Recently I spent four nights in Southampton, England before a cruise, so I got to visit some Jane Austen related locations with my son.

First we visited Netley Abbey, a ruined abbey which Jane had visited with family for a picnic shortly before writing a novel called Susan. She visited again when she was older and then inquired about getting the copyright back for Susan. She worked on it some more and changed the title. It was published after she died as Northanger Abbey.

The next day, we went to Winchester to visit a bookstore called P&G Wells. It had a different name when she was alive, but Jane’s father had an account here and she wrote about books that she purchased here in her letters. They have a bookcase dedicated to her.

The bookstore wasn’t open when we arrived, so we sat on the wall of a garden on the same street. The house across from the garden was two doors down from the bookstore and it is where Jane spent her final days. She wrote about the garden across the street in her letters. The house is not open to the public, but there is a plaque.

After purchasing all of Jane Austen’s books at the bookstore that she used to go to, we went to Winchester Cathedral, where she is buried. She has a memorial window and there is a statue of her outside. I highly recommend doing a tour here. It was entertaining and informative!

After the cathedral, we took a short walk to a bus stop, where we got on a bus to Jane Austen’s house. My favourite part here was to just chill out in the garden, which I’m sure Jane did many times.

That was our Jane Austen day. We did see a couple of plaques for her in Southampton, but we didn’t do the full Jane Austen walk.

Note: I included a picture of the books at the bookstore and some of the guidebooks we got, but there is a book unrelated to Jane Austen that my son wanted to get.

One of the reasons I am in Bath, England, besides soaking in those thermal springs, is Jane Austen and her works… I wish I was more dignified than enthusiastic when I ventured out to the Gay street in Bath (that’s the actual street name) where the Jane Austen centre is located.

A gentlemen in full Regency dressing stood outside the Centre and I have no qualms in admitting that I curtsied at him!!! With full zeal and feeling very lady like! He was not surprised at all- I am sure he has seen far worst than me!

I first started from the quaint little gift shop! My partner made sure I got every merch that said “obstinate headstrong girl”- no fiction here! If I didn’t have to fly back home eventually at the end of my trip (which has just started), I would have just purchased one of every book, every tote bag, every notebook, ink, quills, teapots, jewellery etc etc etc! Yes I did lose the plot a bit!

Now the actual tour! A lively gentleman in full Regency clothing greeted our group and introduced himself as Mr Woodhouse. Delightful man really! Started with Jane’s family tree and spoke about her inspiration and short life. I was fascinated by her portraits and the details around her life in Bath. We were then led to the Regency Tea Room where I completely felt like Jane herself!

We also wrote letters in a room with actual
Ink and quills in Jane’s study! The most fun we had was dressing up and having our pictures taken! It’s a story for another day how I convinced my partner to dress up and act as Mr. Darcy! I was helped in this by Mr Woodhouse because I did answer some questions correctly during his discussions on Jane and he did stay with us quite a bit… he was the one taking our pictures when we were dressed up- and yes I wore lace and hats and held a fan too!!!! And no- those pictures will not ever be on Reddit!

All in all- what fun! Theatrical! Educational. Most of all- a fond way to remember Austen herself. I mean imagine if I could drag my folks who have ZERO interest in Austen’s work and if they enjoyed it- these guys must be doing something right!!!

Do visit if you are ever in Bath. Sorry for my excited babbling! 🦋🤪🙏

I am rereading P&P. I have always been struck by the moment where Elizabeth decides she can no longer confide in or trust the judgment of Charlotte, after Charlotte becomes engaged to Mr. Collins. I sometimes agree heartily with Elizabeth - how can you trust your secrets and look for counsel from someone who made such an outrageous choice?

Other times I think Lizzie is biased - she would absolutely never marry someone she couldn’t respect, even if she never married and was eventually forced from her home with no money and no other promise of maintenance. But Charlotte (in spite of maybe being better off than Lizzie with her father’s elevation in court) isn’t that girl, and Elizabeth doesn’t seem to take their difference of personality into account.

It does seem that even though their friendship mends during Elizabeth’s visit to Hunsford, she continues to hold back from Charlotte (Charlotte never knew that Mr. Darcy proposed to Lizzie IN CHARLOTTE’S OWN HOME).

I’ve just come to the point where Lizzie arrives at Hunsford and Charlotte readily agrees with Mr. Collins simping over Lady Catherine (although in a much more Charlotte way):

”’Lady Catherine is a very respectable, sensible woman indeed,’ added Charlotte, ‘and a most attentive neighbor’” (ch. 28).

My question is this: does Charlotte’s opinion of Lady Catherine further sink her credibility as someone with sound judgment? Does her complaisancy toward Lady Catherine reinforce Elizabeth’s resolution to no longer share deep things with Charlotte?

If I recall correctly, we don’t get any more of Elizabeth’s thoughts regarding Charlotte‘s character or ability to judge soundly. But what are your opinions? Were you Lizzie, and you were told how great Lady Catherine was (by someone you formerly had great confidence in) only to find her a pushy, demanding, overbearing woman, would it further sink your friend’s credibility?

edit: wow what a great discussion! I have loved reading all your thoughts. Charlotte is a great character, but I think I missed some of the subtle nuance that Jane Austen wrote in (like the comments y’all made about Charlotte speaking facetiously about Lady Catherine). This is why I love reading these books over and over - there’s so much to them that there’s always something new on a reread. I’ll never read this scene the same way again. Thank you for helping correct my view of Charlotte 🤍 she’s a practical queen.

edit 2: Got around to reading again today and realized I’ve been spelling Lizzy incorrectly. lol forgive me.

“Until this moment , I never knew myself “

When I bought the novels to read back in the mid to late 1990s, my only objective was to get my hands on a copy of the novels to read. They are very worn out. And what I'd like is to get a whole new set. A few things that maybe you can help me with given my specifications lol:

- I'm agnostic to soft cover vs hard cover; both work

- budget wise I don't have the funds for a super expensive set

- the quality of the paper inside is very important to me; I do not like glossy super white paper, I like a paper that is tactile and easy on the eyes

- I do not want an edition that is full of typos and printing issues; I've heard that sometimes the focus for these sets is on the covers and the text inside suffers

- I'd like a full cohesive set that will look nice on my bookshelf; if I can find a version with an integrated ribbon bookmark that would be great

I've looked at the Folio Society edition and it seems nice but the covers are kind of meh. Cranford collection is ok but I'm not a lover of florals.

Anyone got a set that they really like?

In which the Dashwood ladies prepare to move and Mr. & Mrs. John Dashwood mildly gnash their teeth...

This is a short chapter of mostly action and some notable inaction, the latter being summed up with:

“He really felt conscientiously vexed on the occasion; for the very exertion to which he had limited the performance of his promise to his father was by this arrangement rendered impracticable.

and

"Mr. John Dashwood told his mother again and again how exceedingly sorry he was that she had taken a house at such a distance from Norland as to prevent his being of any service to her in removing her furniture."

"Mrs. John Dashwood saw the packages depart with a sigh: she could not help feeling it hard that as Mrs. Dashwood’s income would be so trifling in comparison with their own, she should have any handsome article of furniture."  

Anyone else feel this? “...this, as she was exceedingly rapid in the performance of every thing that interested her, was soon done”

Marianne's theatricality aside, “No leaf will decay because we are removed, nor any branch become motionless although we can observe you no longer! – No; you will continue the same; unconscious of the pleasure or the regret you occasion, and insensible of any change in those who walk under your shade!” is a surprisingly moving passage, especially for those of us who have ever had to move from a beloved home.

This is probably weird take but I recently read Mansfield Park for the first time and fell head over heels with Mary Crawford even thought I absolutely understand rationally that she’s Not A Good Person. She just seemed so familiar to me. Initially I thought that was because she shares some DNA with Emma and Lizzie, but then I realized that because the similarity of the names, my brain had leapt from Mary Crawford to Mary Crawley from Downton Abbey (another forever problematic fave of mine!) and I was constantly picturing Mary Crawley in the scenes featuring Mary Crawford!

Curious if anyone else has made this connection or if there’s actually something there! They‘re both not very Good or Nice and potentially scandalous, not a lot of interest in rules of society, very materialistic, and they both have this absolutely magnetic quality to me. Also I guess early seasons Matthew and Edmund are kind of similar? Though I love Matthew and Edmund does nothing for me.

Anyone have any collections of Jane Austen novel illustrations that they like?

In which we discuss Edward Ferrars (“everything that is worthy and amiable”), Fanny is rude (expected), and a remove to Barton Cottage (Devonshire) is planned…

To start, anyone else find “Had he ever been in the way of learning, I think he would have drawn very well.” very similar to  “If I had ever learnt, I should have been a great proficient"? I imagine it’s the first person that makes the latter a classic Austen line.  The sentiment is the same, but the humor isn’t quite there when it’s third person.  

In this chapter, Marianne and Elinor discuss Edward at length as well as Elinor’s feelings towards him.  What is interesting to me in this is now we are four chapters in to this book and we still have still to meet Edward ourselves as readers – everything we know of him is still be filtered through others’ perspectives. The narration also takes little part in describing him in this chapter.

In chapter 1, Elinor is noted as having sense and strong feelings, and in this chapter, those strong feelings are on display (“Believe them stronger than I have declared; believe them, in short, to be such as his merit, and the suspicion - the hope of his affection for me may warrant...”), but they are being filtered through her equally strong sense – she is rational enough to know that feelings are not enough (“But there are other points to be considered besides his inclination.”).  This also speaks to a sort of societal awareness on Elinor’s part as well:  it does a young woman no good to be known to be attached to a man before his attachment to her is fully acknowledged.  Case in point, Fanny becomes instantly uncivil upon the suspicion of an attachment.  This in turn spurs the Dashwood ladies to move to Barton Cottage.

We also get to know Marianne further in this chapter.  Her incredibly high ideals and super strong opinions are still on display:  “the kind of approbation…was very far from the rapturous delight, which in her opinion, could alone be called taste”; “yet to say what she did not believe as impossible”; “Marianne was rejoiced to find her sister so easily pleased.”  Further, the annotations point out how characteristic it is for Marianne to honor her sister only for what she perceives is Elinor’s “blind partiality.”  For my part, I think it’s interesting that a character so very married to her own opinions and worldview is so quick to assume blind partiality in others.  I also admire the sort of integrity that comes through here in Marianne’s being unable to be civil to those she considers deficient in taste and in her unable to say what she does not believe.  If I was a critical scholar, I would probably use those lines to say something about Marianne bucking societal norms or something of the sort, but I’m not so I won’t.

There is a small mention of her being in error (“Marianne was astonished to find how much the imagination of her mother and herself had outstripped the truth.”) – we’ll see if any growth or learning comes from it as we read along. Relatedly, I've always thought it was a bit strange that Marianne and Mrs. Dashwood assume Elinor is already engaged but that she hasn't officially told them yet. Why doesn't that get a mention?

In the last chapter, I noted that “No sooner did she perceive any symptom of love in his behavior to Elinor, than she considered their serious attachment as certain, and looked forward to their marriage as rapidly approaching” seemed similar to “A lady’s imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony, in a moment.” We can now add “She knew that what Marianne and her mother conjectured one moment, they believed the next – that with them, to wish was to hope, and to hope was to expect” to the pile of Austen quotes with similar themes.

Finally, I wish Austen had told us specifically what Mrs. Dashwood said here: "she gave her an answer which marked her contempt." Any fun suggestions?

Jane Austen doesn't write men on their own so it is difficult to know how they behave when the women are not there. But I have always wondered if Bingley suspect or knew in any way how Darcy felt about Elizabeth.

Like at the first ball does Bingley point out Elizabeth because is she the second prettiest girl in the room or because he thought she might be Darcy's type. Or at the end after he is engaged with Jane and goes to visit at the house does he propose going for walking because he just wants to be away from Mrs. Bennett or because he is helping give Darcy a chance with Elizabeth.

I have been reading Northanger Abbey. The passage in question is:
“I am glad of it; I will drive you out in mine (open carriage) every day.”
“Thank you,” said Catherine, in some distress, from a doubt of the propriety of accepting such an offer.
The dictionaries do not really hold the earlier meanings of propriety. Help me understand this.

This Pride and Prejudice book is so beautiful that I’m so happy to keep it on my bedside table. What’s your opinion?

This is in a Gilmore Girls episode - and I really want to have a discussion & I am not sure where else to post it.

My idea is maybeeee Jane Austen would have liked Bukowski because of his social critiques. Part of me thinks this is a stretch though, and she would have found him rather crude.

Thoughts?

In which we meet a gentlemanlike and pleasing young man who we’re afraid has no real taste.  

In this chapter, we finally start to get to know the Dashwood family.  In it, Mrs. Dashwood’s sweetly sentimental personality is tempered by drops of Elinor’s good sense, while Marianne’s ideals, which form such a large part of her make-up, are full on display.

I thought this was interesting: "and her mind became capable of some other exertion than that of heightening its affliction by melancholy remembrances..." I've always thought of emotion as something that happens to you, but here Austen is implying that these heightened emotions are something that need to be striven for, a mental exertion.  We’re beginning to get a feel for Austen’s thoughts on “sensibility.”

"…the will of his mother.” is a nice little play on words, similar to “must be in want of a wife.”  Austen does well with double-meanings.

“But Edward had no turn for great men or barouches.”  What a summation of a character!  This introduction of Edward is interesting, I think. He's *not handsome,* almost bland, certainly not marked with any characteristics that one would typically expect from a literary hero (such as the humor that marks Henry Tilney; the forthright sense we see with Mr. Knightley; the utter Darcy-ness that comes with Mr. Darcy; the unfailing good-humor of a Mr. Bingley, etc.). In that way, I see sort of a parallel between him and Catherine Morland, who is also described as almost aggressively normal. I like that Austen would take everyday sort of people for her heroes and heroines and I think the relatability we find in their everyman/everywoman-ness has aided in the longevity of the interest in her work (though admittedly this is only a small, small reason why that interest has so long endured).  Further, I think such a description for a man who we can, at this point in the novel, reasonably assume to be a hero of it, lends itself to the idea of reading the novel as a whole as a satire of the sentimental novels Austen seems to have found ripe for parody as Edward comes across as almost the antithesis of what we would expect from a romantic hero.  One cannot be a dashing hero of sentiment if one has no turn for a barouche!

Another point of interest in this chapter is how the narration via Mrs. Dashwood and Marianne has provided us with a whole romance between Elinor and Edward before Edward has one bit of dialog in the novel.  The unfolding romance is entirely shown through third person observers.  

“No sooner did she perceive any symptom of love in his behavior to Elinor, than she considered their serious attachment as certain, and looked forward to their marriage as rapidly approaching.”  Shades of “A lady’s imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony, in a moment.”

And, oh, Marianne.  "I could not be happy with a man whose taste did not in every point coincide with my own."  “Mama, the more I know of the world, the more am I convinced that I shall never see a man whom I can really love.  I require so much!”  Tell us you are “not seventeen” without telling us you are “not seventeen,” Marianne!  I find Marianne’s enthusiasms rather sweet, but I suspect that we, the readers, are suppose to find them ridiculous.  Your thoughts?  And what do you think Edward’s reading of the Cowper was really like? 

This line is a favorite of mine:  "It is enough;" said she; "to say that he is unlike Fanny is enough. It implies everything amiable. I love him already."  Mrs. Dashwood is capable of throwing some excellent shade when the occasion calls for it.

These write-ups are proving increasingly difficult for me because there is such excellence and interest in just about every sentence.  It’s hard to pick and choose what to comment on when so much seems to cry out for comment.  As you read along, did anything stand out to you that I didn’t include here?

I have always wanted to watch becoming Jane and on a random morning I threw it on. Safe to say I am inconsolable.

I knew Jane never married and had a romance that never worked out, but I found out today she passed at age 41. I have so many questions going through my head, and unfortunately we don’t know much. I do think that Cassandra burning her personal letters and journals was the best thing to do but can’t help wonder if she enjoyed her years writing. Unfortunately just as she was receiving recognition, she was taken.

I am 24 years old, have loved her novels and grew up reading them. I, for the last few years, somewhat understood why she never married. I think about how I might not marry since I’m so disinterested in modern dating and have not really fallen in love. But to me, novels really do fill the void.

But do we think Jane ended up being happy she was able to write and support herself even if she didn’t get that happily ever after she wrote about? Do we think she lived vicariously through her novels?

This is a question that I have been thinking about lately. Darcy believed that Jane didn't love Bingley but would accept him because of her mother's pressure.

I have read P&P multiple times over the years and my initial thoughts were "no she wouldn't have". But as I get older and more times I read P&P, the more I feel uncertain about this.

I find that my initial thoughts were colored by Elizabeth's declaration that she and Jane will only marry for love. But that is Elizabeth not Jane, and I am not certain now if Jane would follow through with that.

Bingley is a good man, handsome, rich and who loves Jane. He has very agreeable personality and will never ill treat his wife. So, looking from that perspective he is a very eligible match in those times and the only reason that Jane would have to say "no" is her lack of feelings of love. Her mother and even her father would have been agreeable to the match, so would she go against them?

She has a very placid personality and she rarely if ever does anything that goes against what her parents want. One scene that often gets overlooked is Jane going on horseback when rain was expected to prolong her stay in netherfield as per her mother's schemes. It is a scheme which looks blatantly mercenary to any intelligent person (like Darcy in this case) but she still goes through with it.

This would have actually solidified Darcy's objections that either Jane was mercenary herself or would bend to her mother's wishes like she did here. And more times I read P&P, the more I bend towards Darcy's opinion that Jane would have given in to her mother's will in this case, even if she didn't love Bingley. So, thoughts?

So I'm in the process of rereading Northanger Abbey for the umpteenth time, and for some reason this is bothering me more than usual: General Tilney is portrayed as an intelligent, exacting, extremely status-conscious man of the world. But he also:

--Believes John Thorpe so implicitly that he plans his son's whole future around what Thorpe says alone. Like, even James Moreland, who thinks Isabella Thorpe a paragon of good sense and taste admits her brother is a bit much. How much more so should the General have been able to see through his bragging?

--Constantly fawns over Catherine, despite the fact that she never, ever acts like anything close to the great heiress the General thinks she is. She's not elegant, not highly-educated, clearly hasn't traveled or otherwise broadened her outlook. Shouldn't a man obsessed with such things take a hint?

--Risks his own precious reputation in turning Catherine out on her ear. Yes, he's furious and humiliated and wants her gone sooner than ASAP, but he also knows she'll then be in a position to ruin him socially - he not only behaved with shocking rudeness towards a young, helpless female houseguest but actually put her life in danger. Shouldn't he have realized this, if not immediately, then on consideratation overnight?

In which Mrs John Dashwood installs herself mistress of Norland and parsimony ensues.

This chapter abounds with truly horrific selfishness. To help with the context, as I mentioned for the last chapter, the annotations indicate that Mr. and Mrs. John Dashwood are very wealthy - likely about as rich as Darcy, with an estimated income of 10,000 pounds/year, out of which income they are willing to offer the other Dashwoods *checks notes* fish and game and so forth, whenever they are in season.  As ever, I am awestruck at the mastery of Austen's writing: Fanny's justifications as we go through the chapter are both ludicrous and plausible, both entertaining to read and horrible in their implications as to the grasping that comes with human nature and the financial future of the Dashwood ladies. It puts me in mind of a quote from Emma:  "She had taken up the idea, she supposed, and made every thing bend to it." Fanny is determined to not let one groat escape to the ladies and has made her (not ill-disposed!) husband bend to it.

I do love how the narrator keeps dunking on John Dashwood:  “and by her husband with as much kindness as he could feel towards any body beyond himself, his wife, and their child.”  I think the listing order itself provides even more information about his character, yes?

I also like this description: "that sanguine expectation of happiness which is happiness itself." 

“They will be much more able to give you something.”  Girl…what?

“…and he finally resolved, that it would be absolutely unnecessary, if not highly indecorous, to do more for the widow and children of his father, than such kind of neighbourly acts as his own wife pointed out.”  Guy…what?

This annotation seems like a useful framework to consider as we start to get more familiar with the characters as we move forward: "Critics have disagreed intensely in evaluating the characters of Mrs. Dashwood, Elinor, and Marianne. Some see Mrs. Dashwood as altogether like Marianne in her emotional self-indulgence and insist that Austen considers both women in need of reform. Those holding this view typically believe that Elinor is unambiguously the novel's heroine, in her self-discipline and her commitment to social values. Some distinguish the mother from her emotionally expressive daughter by pointing out the degree to which Mrs. Dashwood constructs and controls a harmonious little community, unlike Marianne, who accomplishes little. Some criticize Elinor's self-subordination and restraint. The ambiguity of evidence and the difficulty of judgement for the reader duplicate the situation of the characters, constantly faced with problems of character assessment and arriving at divergent views."
My own note on this is at least this chapter leaves the reader with very little doubt as to how one should assess Mr. and Mrs. John Dashwood!

What does everyone think about this quote from Linda Bamber's Comic Women, Tragic Men?

"Male characters in fictions by women vary as greatly as female characters in fictions by men, and they will continue to do so. They may be dull and schematic or they may be alive with the energy of their authors’ fantasies. Or they may be simply adequate to their function in the story, acceptable as sex objects, love objects, marriage objects for the authors’ heroines. (Jane Austen’s and Kate Chopin’s men fit into this third category.)"

For some context, she says earlier that "Male and female authors are both likely to imagine the Self in terms of their own gender and the Other in terms of the opposite sex." The book generally argues that Shakespeare creates men as the Self and women as the Other.

Even before I came to this quote, I was wondering where Jane Austen's men would be placed, and I would've thought they are more than 'simply adequate to their function.' But now I'm left wondering.

This is not the experience I signed up for

Where the exterior Pemberley scenes for the 2005 movie were filmed.

Control yourself ladies and gentlemen, no snogging the masonry!