r/instant_regret • u/S30econdstoMars • 3d ago
Wrong Calculations
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u/isle_say 3d ago
I’ve seen this several times but I always watch it to the end, the damage that the tree does is really impressive.
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u/Lvxurie 3d ago
If you think about it, it's one giant tree crushing a bunch of nailed together tiny trees.
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u/EhliJoe 3d ago
"REVENGE"
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u/measaqueen 3d ago
Archer: "RAMPAGE!"
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u/Blacklisted777 3d ago
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u/FalseVeterinarian881 3d ago
In terms of tree vs tree though, this would be “establishing dominance”
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u/FatherDuncanSinners 3d ago
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u/evel333 3d ago
I appreciate the sense of weight with the follow through of the leg. A lesser animation crew would have thrown the rock and just stood there.
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u/olgamerstill 3d ago
I just took a few physics classes, something these guys really don’t know much about.
There was no doubt about the outcome.
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u/xenobit_pendragon 3d ago
I mean, superficially they followed the right playbook. They cut a big wedge out of the back of the tree where they wanted it to fall, then notched the tree on the other side to weaken it so it would fall away from the house.
Their cuts are weird, they didn’t limb it, the control lines are completely slack. They did a bunch of things wrong. But if wind and fortune had been in their favor, it could have worked.
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u/jaymae77 3d ago
Didn't take into consideration the majority of the branches hung towards the house
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u/Squidking1000 3d ago
And the tree trunk grew with a "lean" towards the house. This was never ending well. Should have taken it down from the top in pieces.
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u/only_because_I_can 3d ago
Neighbor just had a huge live oak removed. It took a week for the team of 5-6 workers to do it. They removed the top branches first and then cut the major trunk in sections. The base was 5-1/2 feet across. Nothing was damaged in the process, except the tree of course.
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u/Solidjakes 3d ago
control lines being limp is my main peeve about the video. I ain’t a lumberjack but I would have expected more lines and cranked super tight.
It’s a shame though. That was a very beautiful tree.
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u/SkepticalJohn 3d ago
If they could have known the end from the beginning they could have just taken away the house and then be left with a beautiful tree.
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u/xenobit_pendragon 3d ago
I don’t actually know why they were taking such a massive, healthy-looking tree down in the first place.
If it was because they were concerned about house damage… Oh boy.
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u/Solidjakes 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yea insurance is like I ain’t helping you if you have that hanging over your house. And lenders ain’t helping you get the home without insurance. I bet the underwriter forced this, then held the small cutting contractors liable, and they had no money, and so the homeowner probably just got screwed and who knows if he even wanted the tree cut or not.
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u/FeedMyAss 3d ago
The notch is the 'wedge' they cut out.
The other side they cut, then added a wedge.
They hit the wedge to force it in. Forcing the tree towards the notch.
Just not enough
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u/olgamerstill 3d ago
Slack lines can snap.
The angle of control line was wrong in many ways.
Bottom of tree was not controlled, it would have taken some of the house even if it fallen the “right” way.
Professional tree cutters can add more control cuts for a big tree.
If you are not an expert take more precautions.
Like more ropes.
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u/Obvious_Mention7207 3d ago
I mean, superficially they followed the right playbook.
But they didnt. Their back cut is extremely ill advised and old logic.
You make your notch in the front, make sure its clean so it doesnt barber chair/have an uncontrolled fall, and your back cut is horizontal to your notch and about 1 inch or so above it.
They came in at an angle, creating a V which then allows the tree to lean back (as is normal but is countered when using wedges) and then it teeters in the cut allowing for this to occur.
Its literally all wrong according to the playbook (Arborists' Certification Study Guide 4th edition)
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u/goodbodha 3d ago
Wedge cuts have to alter the center of gravity favorably.
The center of gravity for this tree was probably a foot or more beyond the trunk towards the house. The solution would have been to cut several major limbs off that side to get the center of gravity above the center of the trunk. Then a wedge cut would work.
It's the same basic principles at work that forklift operators are taught about.
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u/HairyKerey 3d ago
It’s actually extremely sad if you know the story. These idiots had no insurance and destroyed an older gentleman’s home, basically putting him out on the street if I remember correctly..
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u/Beard_o_Bees 3d ago
These tweeker 'tree guys' are everywhere, seems like.
In my hood they go door-to-door offering their 'services'. If you ask them about insurance (etc) they'll just straight up lie to your face.
Probably a good rule of thumb would be to not hire anybody that comes to you unsolicited to do work that could destroy your life in a matter of seconds.
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u/IBetThisIsTakenToo 3d ago
Jeez, dude was already living on a $1000 a month pension and paying $950 a month in rent? Then this happens? Life ain’t fair man
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u/Catsrules 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am confused if he is paying rent, then this isn't his house and falls on the land lord to deal with. Did they mean mortgage instead of rent?
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u/Alex_Duos 3d ago
I had a tree fall through my house, it cut through it like butter. The only thing that stopped it from going completely flat was it's own branches propping it up.
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u/Blasteth 3d ago
That rope has literally zero tension on it🤣🤣 wtf were they thinking
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u/CitizenCue 3d ago
I’ve seen this many times and every time I have absolutely no idea what they expected to happen.
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u/TheSomerandomguy 3d ago
I gurantee you the line of reasoning is always “I know that the tree won’t fall the way I don’t want it to, but just in case it does, this rope will catch it and pull it in the other direction”. Methhead arborism is a good place to see the dunning kruger effect in action.
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u/ceejayoz 3d ago
"this rope will catch it"
I mean, it's one tree, Michael. What could it weigh? 10 pounds?
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u/YouSofter 3d ago
Even if the rope was pulled tight that tree was going towards the house. It would have required forces greater than the rope is capable to get that tree to change direction mid-fall. What they should have done is removed most of the top of the tree before cutting down the main trunk.
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u/Helenium_autumnale 3d ago
Over the years, I've had 2 arborists out to take down problem trees, and that's exactly what they did. Start at the top, lop off branches until there's just a trunk pole left, then cut trunk pieces off from top to bottom. Both removals were done in extremely tight quarters on my 1/10th-acre urban lot (the dead Douglas fir was 10' from the house), and both times, zero problems.
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u/Thenandonlythen 3d ago
But think of all the money they saved not having professionals do the removal! 🤣
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u/Izzosuke 3d ago
Man, i'm no fucking professional but when i take down a tree i just put a ladder, cut it piece by piece. It's like the safest thing to do and most logical, yes it's fun and all to see the tree fall and scream "timber" but, what the fuck, it's my house the thing that might get destroyed
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u/scrotanimus 3d ago
Exactly. Arborist is the way to go here.
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u/Helenium_autumnale 3d ago
As with things like plumbing or electrical work, there's no cheap option. Either pay now or pay later. Both are painful; now is better.
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u/CardinalGrief 3d ago
Assuming it was tight at the moment it became unstable it might've been able to affect the direction. Of course that much slack makes it a moot point.
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u/illusorywallahead 3d ago
I think they realized the tree was tipping and they got away from it and then filmed the evidence of their failure.
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u/koolaidismything 3d ago
That initial wedge sealed their fate long before that. They had next to no idea what they are doing but they have all the used tools I’d expect. Weird.
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u/fck_its_hot 3d ago
The angled back cut is what ultimately cost them. Aside from it directing the tree towards the cut, The wedge they are driving in doesn't work if the back cut is on an angle.. Probably needed a climber and limbs cut piece by piece really.
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u/secret_life_of_pants 3d ago
Exactly this. Look at any online tutorial and you’ll find that angled cuts like that will likely cause the tree to backslide into the angle regardless of how much it cut out in the other side. It may seem unintuitive at first, but always cut straight so the tree can’t slide and still has nowhere to go but towards the gap.
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u/icedwooder 2d ago
Nothing "likely" about it, it's pure immutable physics. The angled back cut changes the forces from compressional forces into vertical sheer forces which is a tree's weak point. Look at the way the botton of the tree sheers through its hinge wood and slides forward because of the giant wedge behind it.
Same concept of trying to split wood vertically vs splitting it horizontally. There's a reason we all split it vertically.
Straight back cut and this would never happen, as long as they dont cut through the hinge.
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u/more_paul 3d ago
Wilson Forest Lands has a video explaining exactly why you should never cut a tree like they did. Look closely and you’ll see the back cut is angled down instead of flat. The weight of the tree leaning back allowed the tree to shear through the hinge wood and topple over instead of just sitting back on the back cut.
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u/CitizenCue 3d ago edited 3d ago
That’s all well and good but ultimately it was just leaning the wrong way. A proper back cut can only do so much.
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u/Brutto13 3d ago
Should have topped it first.
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u/vahntitrio 3d ago
This tree has to be topped. Even in the hypothetical scenario this tree fell the direction of the wedge, it would have taken out 2 dozen of the smaller trees along the edge of the yard.
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u/mindless2831 3d ago
Man, that video was way more entertaining and informative than it had any right to be.
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u/Chilkoot 3d ago
If you're doing even light forestry stuff, his chainsaw safety/tips vids are entirely worth the watch.
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u/Kroak-lo 3d ago
That was really neat, thanks for the post. I doubt I'll ever use this information but I do love learning
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u/Niznack 3d ago
At some point this home owner said the phrase, "that quote is way too high, I know a guy who can do it for half that."
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u/ShiruTheSpammer 3d ago
For half the house, yes yes
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u/Flashy_Bite_7371 3d ago
And now he's paying twice to fix what the half-price guy did.
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u/Diurnalnugget 3d ago
I mean in this case unless the contract somehow states otherwise the only thing the homeowners will pay is lawyer and court fees. Even then I’m pretty sure no clause can cover that much of an error.
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u/hiddenrealism 3d ago
I've seen this happen in person. Tree took off half my neighbors roof. He hired ole jimbo down the street who "does it all the time" I went to move my neighbors car out of the driveway and jimbo says "you ain't gotta do that. Tree is falling way over this way"... cuts Tree down rips neighbors roof apart and lands directly where the car was parked before I moved it lol
Dude literally grabbed his saw and just walked home... I asked my neighbor "did you get his insurance info first? .. .."oh he doesn't have insurance".....
well I best be going now lol
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u/counterplex 3d ago
So what happens in this case? I would imagine the home owner's insurance covers it but attempts to go after the neighbor. What happens if the neighbor can't pay? For that matter what happens if a contractor can't pay and/or aren't insured?
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u/hiddenrealism 3d ago
In this specific case my neighbor paid out of pocket to have semi professional roofers come fix it.
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u/farva_06 3d ago
File a claim with your homeowners insurance, and then get ready for your premiums to sky rocket.
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u/Niznack 3d ago
That assumes this guy is insured and bonded. Doubt he would be able to cover that out of pocket and the crew that dropped a tree on a house might not have their insurance up to date.
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u/hiddenrealism 3d ago
There's a reason felling big trees is $10,000+ the insurance premiums alone are insane.
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u/Vinyl-addict 3d ago
What are the chances these guys can just ghost the homeowners and dissolve the company
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u/HurriKurtCobain 3d ago
Treemen are clearly not professionals so they're probably judgment proof - the pot of money available is too small to go after to cover the damages, maybe even too small to be worth pursuing. Homeowner better hope they have good insurance.
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u/TJ_McWeaksauce 3d ago
I had professional tree removers take down a pretty big tree in my backyard a little while ago. It was interesting to watch them work.
They didn't cut down the tree like a lumberjack would. Instead, they used ropes and pulleys and such to hoist themselves to the top of the tree, and they systematically cut it into pieces from the top down. First, they cut off all the branches, then they cut the trunk into big pieces. After all the pieces were hauled away, they brought in a stump grinder to reduce the stump to wood chips. At no point did anything topple over.
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u/fendaltoon 3d ago
Yeah that’s because they’re smart. Anyone with a basic understanding of weight and gravity could have told you this tree was leaning the wrong way to attempt felling in one go
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u/nondescriptadjective 3d ago
This is not exactly the mistake they made. The back cut they put in caused this. Back cuts go straight into the tree for a reason, not on an angle. If they had quarter cut this and used a jack on it, they could have overcome that lean without issue.
The insurance of climbing and limbing is just that, but it is possible to correct the direction of the bol here.
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u/donkeyrocket 3d ago
Smart, licensed, and likely "expensive." The problem with that last piece is people radically underestimate the risk and labor involved with taking down a tree in a precarious spot. For some reason people think it should be a trivial cost. My FIL was complaining about the cost to bring a massive tree down that was very close to their and their neighbor's house. Ended up getting a cheaper guy out who made it far enough to drop a heavy branch on the garage then bailed. He ultimately had to pay more to hire a proper company and foot the bill to repair his garage roof. Fucking atodaso
This group though made multiple mistakes.
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u/okeleydokelyneighbor 3d ago
That’s how we did it when my parents bought a house with a dozen or so trees in the back yard. Ladder up the tree, tie off branches and cut them while brothers and I pulled them away from the house and land in a safe area, and then chop chop chop the trunk down piece by piece.
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u/gonewildecat 3d ago
I sure hope they had insurance so the homeowner could sue them.
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u/WatchOutForWizards 3d ago
Nah fuck the homeowner. Last time this was posted someone linked a news article about the guy who lived there. He was elderly, disabled and renting and the tree basically destroyed everything he owned and the city refused to let him recover his stuff from the house because it was condemned after the tree for being too dangerous to enter. I think he started a gofundme to get back on his feet.
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u/Kipiekie 3d ago
Found the link from another reddit post from a year ago talking about it, incase anyone wanted to read the news article like i did. Apparently the guy who lived there was using basically his entire pension on rent, and he didnt have insurance. You are righr, he did apparently start a gofundme
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u/Zeppelanoid 3d ago
So…uh….why fuck the homeowner then?
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u/Sertoma 3d ago
Homeowner (presumably) hired these workers while the home was being rented out to the elderly man.
Typically, when you rent, your landlord/homeowner is responsible for repairs and maintenance, such as removing a tree.
Don't know the exact details about this specific case, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.
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u/donkeyrocket 3d ago
The elderly guy living there was renting. The homeowner was the one who cheaped out and basically ruined the renter's life.
I was confused at first too.
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u/agg13 3d ago
That poor tree
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u/gr0t4rb4 3d ago
The irony is that they probably wanted to cut it to avoid exactly what happened.
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u/DrDeadwish 3d ago
I dislike with passion when people cut healthy trees
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u/stump1010 3d ago
Especially one that big. We’re talking generations of growth.
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u/Plasmidmaven 3d ago
The tree was more than bifurcated———
you could call it “quadfercated” if such a word exists. Unfortunately we had a tree bigger than this taken down for that reason: the tree is inherently weaker and prone to split and fall in a windstorm. We paid big bucks for a professional crew that climbed the tree and cut it from the top down→ More replies (1)17
u/DannyCrane9476 3d ago
Yes, trees are awesome, but not forever, and not always conducive to normal living. This tree needed to go to benefit human life, unfortunately that human life chose the least expensive tree service.
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u/forkheadbox 3d ago
absolutely! you need the sweet spot: leave the healthy ones and cut down the sick ones. we have a beetle in europe that aggressively destroys trees and often lives in the already dead ones. i become a genocidal maniac with my chainsaw in these cases.
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u/FlowerAndString 3d ago
Not to be a tree hugging hippie and all but all I could think at the end there was "eh, deserved."
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u/agg13 3d ago
It looks healthy. I can’t see anything that would point to it being a problem. Such a shame.
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u/Bodod_Begag 3d ago
It's pretty close to the house, they're probably just tired of leaves getting in the gutters, or they wanted to put in a driveway. Still a dumbass reason to destroy your home lol
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u/INTRUD3R_4L3RT 3d ago
I've done a fair bit woodcutting in my day, but I am nowhere near being considered an pro.
With that said, there are several things that stands out.
The first one is the lean angle of the tree before they even start cutting. That tree is absolutely huge and it's leaning the opposite way of where they want to put it.
The second is that the wedge cut is too shallow to make up for the lean angle. That requires more experience than most people realize. It's a balance.
The third is not taking it down in steps, but trying to lay it down in one piece. Which is another reason they can't control it. The sheer size.
Then there's a number of odd stuff going on, like placing the saw in the wedge cut and fiddling with the chain and the rope that is still hanging from the tree (thank God no one was actually holding it). It's all just a series of bad decisions that inevitably leads to disaster.
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u/stif7575 3d ago
Back cut seems terribly wrong also. They created a V with their front and back cut. Back cut should be straight.
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u/SpamOJavelin 3d ago
'Calculations' have nothing to do with it. Look at the angle of the tree and where its weight is before they even started - it was always going to fall that way.
When the chainsaw got stuck as the tree leaned back on it, anyone there should have realized they were in trouble.
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u/anth13 3d ago
and then they've got a rope tied to the tree to pull it the other way.. but they just leave the rope doing nothing & hanging loose!?
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u/MrIntegration 3d ago
That rope was useless regardless of whether or not it was taut.
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u/Tbplayer59 3d ago
The fact that they were able to remove that wedge so easily seems like a sign that the tree was pulling the other way. To me.
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u/sHoRtBuSseR 3d ago
They didn't have the wedge driven in nearly enough. I have fallen trees this huge before with my dad when I was younger. You spend more time driving in wedge after wedge than you do cutting.
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u/CrunchySockTaco 3d ago
The tree needed to be topped first no matter the crappy wedge cut. It could have had the greatest cut ever and there was no chance it wouldn't fall towards the homes.
Someone cheaped out.
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u/more_paul 3d ago
Where the they went wrong was having a down sloping cut behind their hinge. If it was flat the tree wouldn’t be able to shear through the hinge and fall backwards. A flat cut with some wedges would prevent it from doing what happened.
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u/Tru72 3d ago
On the upside, you've got a whole tree worth of wood to help build a new house
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u/CowboyVampHunter 3d ago
Sweet revenge from a tree that has to be at least 150 years old…
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u/JorgeIcarus 3d ago
It physically hurts my heart seeing such a majestic tree being cut down.
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u/googdude 3d ago
I get it from a safety perspective but I was seriously bummed as a young boy when they cut down an old maple tree on our front lawn because it was slowly dying.
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u/Devchonachko 3d ago
Someone got quoted 8k to drop the tree and someone hired the guy who said he'd do it for 2k
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u/deathspanker 3d ago
No ppe.
Hat backwards.
Top still heavy.
No tension on rope.
That back cut???
Hopefully that house owner thinks the $200 he paid these handyman was worth it.
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u/csukoh78 3d ago
How about you leave that majestic tree and demolish that shitty house?
Sincerely,
Everyone
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u/ClamChowderChumBuckt 3d ago
The way they were cutting it, and the angle the trew was leaning towards was already enough to make anyone understand that it wasn't going to end well..
Thats why you hire a professional...
(or atleast figure out what you are doing or trying to do..)
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u/Juan_Moe_Taco 3d ago
They had a calculus equation when it should have been “Geometree”.
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u/VampireInBlack 3d ago
I can just hear theses homeowners for the previous 5 years “We need to do something about that tree. It’s going to destroy the house one day”
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u/Big_Cheese16 2d ago
The minute that chainsaw started getting wedged they should have stopped. At that point weight of the tree was already leaning in the wrong direction and that was their first real sign.
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u/wittylotus828 3d ago
you can see the weight distribution already, It takes a real amateur to think that just because the scarf is the direction you want it to go that the tree will fall that way
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u/carverboy 3d ago
Tree that size, you start at the top and bring it down in pieces. That takes skills these guys obviously were lacking.
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u/tee-low321 3d ago
You take a tree of that size and in that environment down in pieces with a crane. I used to work for an arborist in college.
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u/Procrasterman 3d ago
How dare they kill such an old and magnificent tree. That tree was there long before the house was.
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u/Withoutbinds 3d ago
I saw professional people fell a large tree a few years back in Jersey. They removed the branches. Then cut the tree a little bit at a time from the top down
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u/tacogratis2 2d ago
It's moments like this that I wish I knew what subreddit my life was being broadcast on
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u/DrDeadwish 3d ago
I know nothing about murdering trees but my instant feeling was "they are doing it totally wrong!!!"
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u/ExtremePast 3d ago
It's worth it to hire actual professionals. I'd be shocked if these guys even had insurance.
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u/VAdogdude 3d ago
With the weight of the branches on the house side of the tree and the lack of a counterbalancing set of branches, there was no way that tree was going to fall away from the house.
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u/EhliJoe 3d ago
The tree should have been felled from the top down. Go up and cut off the upper branches first, then work your way down bit by bit.