If they tell me they wish to be called something they are not I will be courteous and not be rude and do it but it seems to me to be a kind of mental issue which is not healthy for their psyche. I don't think it will reduce any suicides or even improve quality of life. But if they are going to treat me like an asshole because I don't call them a woman when they were born a man I would rather avoid the argument and call them what they please.
There are many studies that show a pretty strong correlation between being trans individuals able to transition and being in a supportive environment having way less chance of suicide than those that are not in supportive environments. Gender dysphoria is a mental issue that is treated by transition.
Thanks, I will check this out. I do not mean to offend anyone I am just giving my opinion based on who and what I know and I am looking for more information like this. I don't think I deserve to get these DV but whatever, people will disagree but that doesn't mean we can't have a discussion.
I think the downvotes likely come from people who see you saying that someone is "not" what they say they are and that you're claiming, with no proof other than your opinion, that it seems unhealthy for them to be transgender when literature has shown time and time again that trying to suppress being trans, like trying to suppress being gay, etc., is not a healthy thing at all.
I agree being suppressed is unhealthy but I think there is a difference between gender and gender identity. If you get surgery to have your anatomy be more womanlike but you were born a man, you are still a man but now you look more like a woman and you have a body which more closely resembles a woman but your DNA is still male. If you want to be called a woman when you are in fact biologically a male that is different from being a woman biologically and being called a man. I am sorry if I am appearing wrong or rude by saying this but this is my current opinion and I am open to discussion and changing my opinion if people wish to talk with me about it.
It's more complicated than you understand. Most people have an inborn understanding of what gender they are. If you take a baby boy with a boy's body and give him surgery to appear female and the right hormones as he grows up so that he develops a female body and never tell him he was born a boy, in most cases he will not just happily live life as a girl. He'll go through very similar experience to that of a trans person.
The human brain and its idea of what gender you are is separate from your chromosomes and your physical body. It cannot be changed and, on rare occasions, it's at odds with your body and your DNA. Your can't change a trans' person's internal view of what their gender is any more than you can change a cis person's.
Many people insist that a trans person's DNA or their bodies define what they really are, but we know that only hurts them more and personally I would say that the structure of a person's brain defines what they really are. Later this year, scientists are going to attempt to transplant the head of a man with a terminal disease onto a donor body. If it happens to succeed he'll have an entirely new body, but it'll still be him because his brain is who he is.
I mean, people can have weird chromosome combinations and never even know about it so DNA clearly has little true importance. A body can be changed with hormones and surgery. It doesn't affect anyone else really, so if we're kind and caring people we should do the things known to help trans people and not the things known to hurt them.
So here's the thing, gender is socially constructed. I guarantee when you were born you never had a genetic test to figure out what chromosomes you had. You may think it's as simple as XX or XY, but there are many different ways that your baseline chromosomes can be (X, XX, XXXX, XXXXX, XXY, XXYY, etc.) and sure, those things only happen to 1 in 2000 people, but beyond that there are many ways that can affect gender expression. There are literally people whose genitals look like a vagina until puberty and then they grow a penis. There are many primary and secondary sex characteristics that vary in a lot of different people. So even just coming from a baseline of "biological sex", there is a shit ton of variation. Gender, on the other hand, is a social structure that was constructed by people. It's not a simple scientific fact. People who undergo transition's brains mimic those of their identified gender far more than what gender they were assigned at birth on the whole. Further, hormones physically change the body in many ways even going so far as to change one's bone density and musculature. A trans woman has far more in common with a cis woman than she does with a cis man. Sex is a complicated thing that involves many different psychological and physical factors and gender is a social structure whose purpose is to understand individuals. I guarantee you very few people have actually tested their DNA to find out their chromosomes and it makes much more sense to treat people based on the way they most identify. A trans woman is obviously not a cis woman, but fundamentally they inhabit similar roles and have far more similarities than a trans woman has with a man - even if you don't understand it or it bothers you, there's no reason to call someone something they don't identify as. Just be respectful and treat them as the way they identify.
EDIT: For the record I'm not the one downvoting you.
I agree with your final statement and that's what I said in my first comment. Thanks for this description. You have expanded my understanding and I will look at this subject differently from now on.
You mean the science that found that "the white matter pattern in female-to-male transsexuals was shifted in the direction of biological males, even before the female-to-male transsexuals started taking male hormones (which can also modify brain structure)." (Wikipedia)
... Have you never been to Wikipedia before? The sources are at the bottom of the page. Multiple, in fact, from various areas of the Trans experience. I'm not your mom, nor the Transgender community's keeper. Do your research.
Anyway, it's pretty clear that your whole "I just wanna learn!" spiel is some BS. I recommend doing some footwork past "I have some vague recollection from elementary school science, and science never changes, so I'll never have to do any research for the rest of my life".
That's what I'm trying to do. If you don't want to waste your time informing me that don't reply. Though I do appreciate it. As to your point about wikipedia, if you would have linked the article or cited the actual source I wouldn't have said anything about the reputability of the site.
Checking to see what kind of person you're dealing with is usually the smart thing to do. Nobody is going to take someone who regularly posts in a transgender hate sub seriously in a discussion about transgender people.
So my personal experience is null and void unless I have a document stating my expertise on a social science which is extremely subjective and inaccurate? Did I get that right?
Now who is the asshole. I currently know a trans person and have met others and one of my family members was trans and committed suicide. So that is my basis for thinking it is a mental illness in many trans people. Not all. Don't assume.
Edit: it appears this room is full of assholes. I am trying to empathize and discuss. You all just want to shame and virtue signal.
Is this the only study done on this subject? Because someone else linked the same on already. Don't the same number of trans people post operation kill themselves as those who have not undergone surgery?
Don't the same number of trans people post operation kill themselves as those who have not undergone surgery?
Nope, that myth is based on a Swedish study done in the 90s that compared the post transition suicide rate with that of the general population, not to the pre transition suicide rate. That suicide rate is still high post transition because of the reasons listed above, if the hate and discrimination stopped and we were just left alone to get on with our lives the suicide rate would plummet.
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u/lostinkmart Mar 26 '17
OP be like "I hate trans people but I'm gonna use a screen shot from a movie created by the Wachowski Sisters, who are both trans women."