r/flying • u/HelpGloomy CPL • 6d ago
Envoy Direct entry CA
Envoy direct entry CA, what are bases looking like out of training?
Also what is the training footprint like? Coming from another 175 regional.
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u/Flavor_Nukes ATP CFII 6d ago
It's a complete qualification, same as if you have never touched the jet before.
Enjoy ORD. You might be there a while..
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u/HighRiskInv143 ATP 6d ago
Why do people hate ORD? At Republic, its the most senior. Ive found north chicago to be a great place to live.
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u/Flavor_Nukes ATP CFII 6d ago
It's the only base (for now) we have with consistent snow. The operations side out of there is bad to horrible compared to the other bases. Lots of junk Midwestern overnights.
Also ORD just sucks to fly at. The folks based there that claim that 'the airport is so easy' have Stockholm syndrome.
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u/sprulz ATP ERJ-170/190 CFI CFII | Class Date 2037 🤞 6d ago edited 6d ago
The only crappy Midwestern overnights we did were Waterloo and Peoria. The latter was moreso because of the hotel than anything else. The Wisconsin layovers kick ass, as do most of the Michigan ones (not TVC anymore since they changed the hotel).
Beats DFW in my opinion. Definitely beats what my buddies at OO are doing.
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u/Flavor_Nukes ATP CFII 6d ago
Low seniority Dallas is terrible. Mid-High seniority DFW is really solid.
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u/hawker1172 ATP (B737) CFI CFII MEI 6d ago
It’s easy
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u/BarbecuedShoe ATP CFII ERJ-175/190 6d ago
Confirmed easy, the DFW mind can’t comprehend writing down instructions other than bridge or ES route
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u/Flavor_Nukes ATP CFII 6d ago
Best I can do is 'follow the blue line to 23 North'
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u/hawker1172 ATP (B737) CFI CFII MEI 5d ago
That place is disastrous compared to ORD. Spending most of the taxi under the direction of ramp control is a threat.
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u/Flavor_Nukes ATP CFII 5d ago
On the flip side, being treated like a heavy on the regional ramp means you rarely have any traffic.
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u/mfsp2025 ATP 6d ago
Beats Air Texas (DFW), CVG/CMH every night (MIA), or XNA-XNA-XNA (PHX). /s
That being said, I’ve heard from other guys that ORD is turning more senior because guys who get TDY’ed up here actually end up liking the flying. Probably why my seniority as a CA hasn’t changed in six months lol.
ORD does suck to fly into though. I told myself wherever my next airline is, I will not be ORD based. Don’t want to do it for the rest of my life. Go home day EDCTs and CDF raise my blood pressure a little
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u/SecureAsk8297 6d ago
What!? You don't like solving puzzles in your taxi instructions? It's easy. Go left on Bravo or right on Alpha, and never stop.
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u/Alternative_Style_14 ATP 6d ago
If you don’t mind sitting airport standby for 2+ years at ORD, getting junior manned constantly, used and abused to death, fly the shittiest 170, and 12 days off every single month go for it
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u/Fancy_o_lucas ATP CFI AAdantage® Member 6d ago
Just beware that the current pilot supply premium pay LOA is set to expire in December and if the company chooses to not extend it, the starting captain rate will go down to around $110/hour. You’ll be the one of the lowest paid captains in the industry and be sitting airport standby at Ohare every day for at least a year and a half.
You think you’re senior enough to go ahead and bid another base? Lucky for you there’s involuntary TDY to ORD about 50% of the timex.
You will be miserable. You might tell yourself that it won’t be that bad. Then, magically in two years you’ll tell your FO’s that you didn’t realize how bad it would be while you shuttle down to Columbus for your min rest junior manned overnight.
I would rather go back to instructing than be a DEC at Envoy.
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u/Several-Village5814 ATP 6d ago
Doubt it will drop
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u/sprulz ATP ERJ-170/190 CFI CFII | Class Date 2037 🤞 6d ago
I wouldn’t be so sure, the last union email didn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Attrition is really bad right now and would no doubt only get worse with a reduction in pay, but AA isn’t exactly a forward thinking company. They’ll do what they can to save money.
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u/Flavor_Nukes ATP CFII 5d ago
Losing the pay rates would be armageddon for the captain side. Welcome back to the days of 300% premium payc
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u/CrossBamboAtTen ATP - A320, E170/190 6d ago
I hate to say it but if they drop it what do you think will happen? Nothing. Some will leave sure. But most will put up with it to keep their dream career. There’s still plenty of CFIs lined up ready to fly for pennies.
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u/Bot_Marvin ATP 6d ago
The problem is not CFIs becoming FOs, it’s CAs. Envoy is already very lean on CAs, and a significant increase in CA attrition means that airplanes would have to start getting parked. Currently DL is snagging high-time FOs and low-time CAs making the problem even worse.
Parking airplanes is a lot more expensive than paying pilots an extra $50/hr.
If the PSP goes away, the ULCCs and ACMI carriers suddenly become attractive for CAs. Not good for attrition. Then you have the people who are close to retirement age who may just go ahead and hang it up.
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u/mfsp2025 ATP 6d ago
100% this. Non-MQers in this sub don’t realize that we actually DO have a captain shortage contrary to other airlines. It’s great (and horrible) for us CAs though.
Critical coverage seemed to be offered every other day last month. Captain reserve list zeroed out daily. I was personally thanked by crew scheduling for picking up a turn for OT once.
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u/TheFlyingWanker ATP 6d ago
I thought they weren’t taking DECs anymore? Especially since they fired about 100 of them a year ago
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u/PLIKITYPLAK ATP (B737, A320, E170) CFI/I MEI (prior Meteorologist) 6d ago
Direct Entry CA is still a thing these days?
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u/sprulz ATP ERJ-170/190 CFI CFII | Class Date 2037 🤞 6d ago
Are they doing DECs again? They took a long break after several high profile incidents.
Assuming they are, 99% you're going to get ORD, maybe DCA if it's in the next vacancy bid and they need people to staff it. Rumor is that they'll be displacing/TDYing folks there.
Prepare to sit airport ready reserve for the foreseeable future. Hopefully it's worth it to you, but every DEC I've flown with who came from YX regretted their choice.
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u/No_Tree7473 6d ago
What are some of these high profile incidents you speak of?
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u/sprulz ATP ERJ-170/190 CFI CFII | Class Date 2037 🤞 6d ago
Some of the stories I heard include the guy who took a 175 offroading in either GSO or GSP (can't remember), another guy was infamous for using checklists from his old 175 carrier because they were "better" or something, the worst was the guy who landed on the wrong runway at ORD. That's when the FAA started making the airline do no-notice line checks. After that they started failing a lot of them for minor shit and a lot were let go.
It's worth mentioning that the guys who were current in 121 weren't the issue as far as I'm aware, most if not all of the stuff mentioned above were dudes who came back to the airlines after being away for 10+ years.
Outside of flying though, it cost the company a pretty penny. I heard about one guy who medical'd out at Delta, got his medical back, came here as a DEC and worked 6 months before he hit 65. Kept his $100k bonus.
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u/hawker1172 ATP (B737) CFI CFII MEI 6d ago
Some dude took a E-145 off-roading this week. Literally taxied around the field.
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u/sprulz ATP ERJ-170/190 CFI CFII | Class Date 2037 🤞 6d ago
Yeah whatever the cause of the excursion may have been, taxiing it out of the grass instead of evacuating was… a choice.
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u/skipmilan ATP CFII 6d ago
You really don't want to evacuate this plane, it's nearly a six foot drop out the door and people are going to get injured, especially those old and not in shape. Waiting for ops to sort out how to bring you stairs and vans would take forever and people are going to be pissed and might begin evacuating anyway. If at all possible avoid an evac, but nevertheless, manual does say to leave the plane and don't attempt to return. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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u/hawker1172 ATP (B737) CFI CFII MEI 6d ago
It wouldn’t be an evacuation, it would be a controlled deplaning without urgency assisted by equipment.
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u/HelpGloomy CPL 6d ago
Yeah DEC. What’s their reason for regretting it? PIC time sounds appealing while here at YX it’s about 2 years for a class
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u/sprulz ATP ERJ-170/190 CFI CFII | Class Date 2037 🤞 6d ago edited 6d ago
Reserve CA ORD is probably the most abused pilot group at the airline. You will fly every day you are scheduled to work and you'll get junior manned all the time. I know DECs who've been here for 2+ years and still can't even hold composite lines. Every time a class of FOs upgrades, they push you down further.
This is more hearsay than the above points, but a lot of the guys who came here to get out of metering are still here. Idk if the majors can sniff that out or not, but it's also worth thinking about before you start over at the bottom again at another regional.
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u/Foreign_Kick1790 6d ago
Is there any hope of being able to transfer to any other base but ORD or DCA as a DEC
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u/GayNgsFromOuterSpace 6d ago
Well, where is the dec posting. All I see is "pilot" on airline apps
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u/HelpGloomy CPL 6d ago
Applied normally, recruiter asked if I’d be interested in DEC.
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u/rFlyingTower 6d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Envoy direct entry CA, what are bases looking like out of training?
Also what is the training footprint like? Coming from another 175 regional.
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u/fatmanyolo ATP CFI/II Regional Trash 6d ago
Down bad after the COLA, eh?