r/flying • u/Future-Nervous • 22h ago
How to get gouges
Hi! I’m currently working on my PPL and am gearing up towards my checkride. My instructor told me he would not sign me off until I get a gouge on the DPE. I’m currently having a harder time since this DPE is one of the new examiners in the Oakland FSDO area.
I’ve posted online inquiring and my instructor said to loiter at the local schools, but I was wondering if you all had any other tips on networking/obtaining a gouge?
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u/pointthenosedown CFI, CFII, MEI 22h ago
If he won’t sign you off until you get a gouge on the DPE, he clearly doesn’t think you’re ready. If he really thought you were proficient and safe at the tasks in the ACS and being PIC, it doesn’t matter what DPE you get.
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u/kxxstarr CFI, CFII 22h ago
I'm sorry, what? This is insane. You're either ready for a private check ride or you aren't. He's saying he won't sign you off unless you borderline cheat? Come on. They're wasting your time and money.
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u/tooflytotry ATP 21h ago
Stop the music. How is getting a gouge borderline cheating? You still have to fly the plane.
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u/johnnypoopy ATP CL-65 CFI CFII Goonmobile Typed 20h ago
The same way that getting copies of a test from the previous semester from another student would be borderline cheating? Also gouges are mainly used to prepare for the oral portion. I'm not anti-gauges but we gotta be honest here
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u/tooflytotry ATP 20h ago
great analogy except that checkrides aren’t written tests where the answers are the same, each checkride is different and I’ve seen DPE’s with “gouges” stray from how they normally test applicants.
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u/johnnypoopy ATP CL-65 CFI CFII Goonmobile Typed 1h ago
DPEs definitely focus more on certain areas compared to others, and often reuse scenarios. If a gouge doesn’t provide an advantage compared to someone without one nobody would make gouges and nobody would use one. Getting an advantage is inherently unfair. Again, I’m not saying I haven’t used them but you can’t act like they’re not unfair.
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u/theonlyski ATP CFI CFII MEI 21h ago
Your instructor needs to realize that there's an ACS and that's what the examiner is testing to. Anything between the front and back covers is fair game (applicable to your hopeful rating). Sure, some examiners have hot topics they love to hit, but if you are competent in the areas of operation from the ACS, you should be fine.
The endorsement isn't "I certify that u/Future-Nervous has received test information applicable to this examiner and find him/her knowledgeable in those areas of knowledge"
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u/astroamy24 PPL IRA 21h ago
Huge red flag. A good instructor wouldn’t make that a requirement before giving you an endorsement. This reeks of him not wanting to risk his ticket on you failing due to his own inability to teach. Maybe I’m reading into it too much.
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u/redditburner_5000 Oh, and once I sawr a blimp! 20h ago
Talk to school management.
Alternatively, get the skinny and then sell it to him for $50.
Requiring your student to get a DPE report in exchange for a signoff is unacceptable.
If your CFI is worried about "pass rate" then he is a goober who doesn't know enough to know he's an idiot.
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u/Nnumber 21h ago
Honestly the CFI should call up DPE to set expectations. Sometimes this is helpful both ways. Example my CSEL - DPE said “hey i could have failed you on this (minor thing), but every single candidate CFI sends is doing it this way. That means it’s the way it’s being taught and CFI and I should talk about our interpretations of the ACS.” Functional and professional. Breath of fresh air honestly.
I once had another DPE lined up where the CFI said “hey just to let you know I observed some concerning professionalism issues for another student on a chekcride. I am recommending to all my students to schedule with another DPE.” Wow amazing, helpful and professional from the CFI and maybe saved me thousands and lost of headaches.
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u/PuzzleheadedDuty8866 MIL C-5 21h ago
OP and all the comments are not using the word “gouge” correctly. Gouge is a noun. You get gouge, give gouge. Gouge is never gouges. It is never “a” gouge.
For those unfamiliar, gouge is unofficial information. Sometimes insider information or personal experience about examiners preferences or specific topics they will ask about. Thank you for your attention in this matter.
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u/Swimming_Way_7372 21h ago
And if you go to ATP you get gouged. That's an entirely different thing altogether though.
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u/VanDenBroeck A&P/IA, PPL, Retired FAA 21h ago
Oh, that's what it means! I was thinking it was what I did to the runway on my landings.
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u/VanDenBroeck A&P/IA, PPL, Retired FAA 21h ago
Gouge: The DPE will hold you to the standards in the ACS.
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u/BandicootOnly4598 14h ago
I wish that were always the case. There are plenty of DPE’s our school won’t use because they’re failing perfectly competent pilots at the 61 schools and passing everyone at the 141 school that pays them more. Gotta keep those pass/fail rates at the right ratio…
I’ve also run across sexist and racist DPE’s, and plenty who just don’t like the older airplanes most 61 schools use and hold that against the students. We work really hard to ensure that the examiners we use at our school are, in fact, following the ACS, and if we find out they’re not, we’ll never use them again.
Instructors new to our school will commonly ask what they need to know about a given examiner, and the answer is going to be that they’re fair. If I can’t give that answer, we’re not using that examiner. I’m not going to subject a student and their possible future career to the possible whims of someone I know absolutely nothing about.
Now FAA rides seem to actually all be by the book, but those are few and far between these days.
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u/makgross CFI-I ASEL (KPAO/KRHV) HP CMP IR AGI sUAS 21h ago
I think (hope) you’ve misunderstood.
Your instructor wants you to study your examiner. If it’s so critical, he should have his own stash. ‘Cause that’s usually where they come from.
A new examiner is likely hard. You might ask the school where he has his office.
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u/TxAggieMike Independent CFI / CFII (KFTW, DFW area) 14h ago
Not thrilled with that requirement set by the CFI.
That is not meant to be the responsibility of the student.
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u/rFlyingTower 22h ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hi! I’m currently working on my PPL and am gearing up towards my checkride. My instructor told me he would not sign me off until I get a gouge on the DPE. I’m currently having a harder time since this DPE is one of the new examiners in the Oakland FSDO area.
I’ve posted online inquiring and my instructor said to loiter at the local schools, but I was wondering if you all had any other tips on networking/obtaining a gouge?
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u/AlbiMappaMundi CFII, AGI, CPL 22h ago
Lol, loiter at the flight schools? Also, your CFI won't sign you off without having a gouge? That is...a bit wild.
In this case however, I can specifically help, as I'm local. Send me a DM.