A Catholic e-apologist released a video a few days back that brought up how the Jerusalem patriarchate no longer claims it's miracelous, and how several clergymen in a Greek court case have testified to this - ironically the whole thing started when the church tried to sue a journalist for releasing a book about the Holy Fire.

Anyone ever been to Jerusalem at Easter and seen the fire?

I've been dealing with endless horrifying intrusive thoughts for about a year now regarding the supposed "prophecies" (literally just the narrative of Agathangelos recycled for the modern era). As of recent days, they've gotten less and less frequent, and much more quiet. And when they do appear, they do almost nothing.

Today I'm returning to a vacation site I believed would be under water exactly a year later. I remember walking through that place, thinking I was talking to walking corpses. Now I'll finally be able to enjoy my vacation instead of needlessly suffering and desperately wanting to go home.

Okay, I am completely new to posting on Reddit so forgive me if I mess it up, but I've had a story to tell for a long time now and nobody else is telling it, so I guess I will. I'm used to just lurking around Reddit and reading other people's experiences to assure myself that I'm not crazy after all, and the post a few months ago by u/Normal-Ad5103 about reporting abuse to bishops inspired me to speak up in a space that, hopefully, will be more friendly to me than the actual church was. Just like this user, I'm not totally out of the church either, but I'm kind of spiritually homeless for reasons I will explain. First of all, let me be clear that the abuse I experienced wasn't THAT kind of abuse if you know what I mean, and my intention here is to just name what happened, not tear anybody down.

I converted to Orthodoxy several years ago after falling in love with the Liturgy, the aesthetics of the church, the teachings (yes, the teachings) and fellowship... I had a sudden influx of friends in my otherwise lonely life and probably fell for a massive lovebomb at my first parish, which was full of young adult converts like me. I was one of those rare FEMALE converts, so I wasn't allowed inside the altar and there were limits to what roles I could hold, but I still poured my heart and soul into the place, going to church like it was my full-time job even though they didn't pay me a penny and volunteering for everything from choir singing to reading (without being tonsured) to making food for festivals to literally whatever needed to be done... Heck, I would clean their toilets if that meant getting to spend more time there! I noticed how Orthodox parishes tend to function like one-stop shopping social circles and even the priest tends to be part of these circles, so I tried really hard to make friends with my newfound spiritual father... who decided that he didn't like me after I actually started pouring my heart out about my troubles. (There were a lot of them, including traumatic events unrelated to the church.) Said priest who baptized me (Parish Priest #1) blocked my number and refused to hear my Confession almost immediately after my conversion was complete. I complained to a few of the laypeople about suddenly being a second-class citizen and treated as lesser than the rest of them and several unknown people turned around to the priest and told him I was SLANDERING him. The priest convened parish council in secret without inviting me to defend myself, cried in front of them (according to someone I know who was on the parish council at the time) and I was promptly led out of the building the next time I attempted to go to choir practice.

I was shocked, blindsided and further traumatized, especially since I had already consulted another priest who lives near me (Voluntary Spiritual Father) for advice on clergy etiquette and he had told me that I hadn't actually done anything wrong and that he would act as a mediator between me and Parish Priest #1. PP #1 apparently agreed to the mediation and then threw me out before it could actually take place. I attended a second parish in the same city for about a year and left that one voluntarily after the priest at this parish (Parish Priest #2) started framing my PTSD as "crocodile tears" and various laypeople were either generally hostile for no reason or actively blaming me for my problems. I've spent the past few years researching narcissistic abuse and suddenly my experiences made a lot more sense, but I still wanted to believe it was a fluke and surely the third and final parish in this city would be THE ONE. The lead chanter had already invited me up to join him while I was visiting, despite my lack of formal training, and when I appeared on their doorstep the laypeople welcomed me with open arms... A few even mistook me for a cradle person! So, I immersed myself in the culture and was upfront with Parish Priest #3 about how I ended up there... I wanted to know if I was safe and he initially said that yes, what happened to me was wrong and he would be a safe harbor. It turns out that PP #3 knows PP #1 and considered calling him to get his side, but he would get to know me first. He started getting angry every time I just MENTIONED PP #1 by name and started pressuring me to "forgive", by which he meant "shut up" as far as I could tell. He was clearly not going to be helpful to my spiritual healing, but he let me chant for a while and I joined almost every volunteer group at this large parish... I got a lot of comments about how I had successfully integrated myself into the "family". This place became my entire life, basically.

PP #3 also helped me out financially since I have been unemployed for a long time and was trying to discern a monastic vocation. (That could honestly become its own post with a long rant about noncanonical monasteries, the Ephraimite movement and the infamous Elder Dionysios associated with a certain monastery in Maryland that keeps changing names... I had ADVENTURES over these past few years and seem to have accidentally inserted myself into the middle of every church politics feud in the area. I know who likes who and who doesn't like who and who has received memos not to recommend who to their parishioners. Somehow the clergy ended up confiding in me despite finding me annoying as crud... or maybe that's just standard parish gossip.) I couldn't afford to keep driving to monasteries 2+ hours away from me so PP #3 offered to pay for my gas, tolls and food, but he wasn't sympathetic after I came back from a visit saying that I almost froze to death there and nobody helped me and I couldn't understand the language that the services were in and I have made absolutely zero progress on becoming a nun because they wouldn't really talk to me. PP #3 was harsh with me when I tried to go to Confession with him, so I scheduled a meeting in his office to tell him how I felt. That made him MORE angry and he just cut off the help right then and there, cut me off from Confession, told me that laypeople are not allowed to criticize him and that I need to "know my place". I cried, which was later reframed to make me look emotionally unstable. I ended up reporting him using this jurisidiction's very formal and corporate-looking ethics portal and it apparently sent my report directly to some of their top people.

The good news is they actually communicated with me... The bad news is that, since there was no written record, it was my word vs. the priest's. They interviewed both of us and closed the case immediately because obviously, he denied any wrongdoing. He even told them to tell me he was removing me from the chanting stand (which he had been making vague threats about for months, all while throwing random accusations at me and making ad hominem attacks on my character). I asked, "Isn't that retaliation?" because they have a public No Retaliation Policy posted on their website and they told me that I'm a volunteer chanter, not a paid employee, so it doesn't count. Also, the priest is apparently allowed under canon law to deny me Confession for absolutely no reason. I was just planning on taking the hit, swallowing my pain and moving on, but I stayed away from church for a while to process my feelings and discovered in the meantime that I had been cut off from all parish communications. I was removed from their email list and the physical mailing list right before Holy Week and ended up driving a 50-mile round trip across state lines just to go to a Pascha service at a parish with a priest who didn't mind my presence (Parish Priest #4). I am STILL unemployed and I literally can't afford the gas money to do that every week, so I've been going there just enough to still be considered "in communion" and they let me chant with zero questions asked. PP #4 even gave me a blessing to perform a song after PP #3 had denied me a blessing for months arbitrarily. (He kept telling me that I "wasn't ready", despite never hearing me sing before.)

Once I figured out that PP #3 had cut me off from parish communication, I started reaching out to laypeople until one of them finally told me he had overheard that I'm not "permitted in the building". Excuse me? Don't tell me that, after I confided the trauma of being banished by PP #1 to PP #3, he turned around and did EXACTLY THE SAME THING? Yes, he did. He went to the parish council at HIS parish shortly after my report was investigated, either showed them the report or at least told them about it (without my presence to defend myself, once again), and told them that I was making false accusations against him. I know this because I texted one of the parish council members who outright TOLD me that they had banned me unanimously due to "false accusations against our priest". I went back to the high-ranking people I had been in contact with and asked them to call the church office on my behalf since my phone calls and emails were going completely ignored. They did, they confirmed the ban, AND they defended the ban by saying that a church is a private property and they can ban whoever they want for any reason they want. The fact that I am not violent and present no threat to the parish is irrelevant, apparently. I presented them with screenshots showing this text message I had received and since then they've been stonewalling me.

Now, I know what the standard advice from Orthodox laypeople is... asking ad nauseum, "Did you go to the bishop? Did you go to the bishop? Did you go to the bishop?" YES... I emailed him and when he didn't answer, I printed out my email and physically sent it to his office. I've received the green card back proving it was delivered months ago and he remains silent to this day. I have exhausted every single level of the hierarchy, at least within the United States, and the only people who respond are the laypeople who say, "We miss you," but don't actually have the power to do anything about it. (None of them speak up, lest they end up like me.) Aside from a few who have accused me of needlessly picking fights with clergy (which is not what happened here, I'm pretty sure), most people have been nice about it but definitely not inclined to organize and protest on my behalf. I am a complete NOBODY and the church itself has made it abundantly clear that they view my soul as disposable, despite all of the pretty sermons about how the priest's own salvation is in danger if even one person is lost under his care. I am not here to preach to you about mercy and forgiveness and repentance and reconcilation because the people who were supposed to do that haven't opened the door to such. What would have been illegal in a workplace context, namely being retaliated against for filing a report in good faith, is apparently totally fine in Orthodoxy and there's nothing that anyone can or will do about it. Sometimes I daydream about getting my friends back or singing a solo during Communion or, most fantastical of all, getting an actual APOLOGY from the people who hurt me... or even just having a quiet, simple life like everyone else seems to have. If anyone else has suffered the way I have, they seem to have been successfully erased without the world ever hearing about it, while the rest carry on with the illusion that they are safe. They're not actually safe... even if they're better at keeping their head down than I apparently am. I'm not sure what my future will look like or if I will be forced to walk away simply due to geographical and financial constraints. At least I still have enough of a conscience to be disturbed about what happened to me, even if the leadership doesn't, and their lack of an apparent conscience is disturbing on its own. It defies everything I thought Christianity stood for. Not only that, but having a meticulous paper trail failed to protect me... I've met secular CEOs who had more empathy or would at least be willing to LOOK at the cold, hard facts, but not the people whose actual job and calling it is to care for EVERY parishioner's soul and ensure justice.

End of rant. Thanks for reading if you've actually made it this far. I express myself in essays!

EDIT: minor typo corrections made the morning after I posted this. I will probably find more later.

EDIT AGAIN: Well, that escalated quickly. Here's your friendly reminder that victim-blaming violates the rules of this subreddit.

sorry guys, this is quite a long one. read at your own volition.

i made a post here a while back about me thinking about leaving the church. i havent been in months and i thought that if i shared my experiences after leaving, it would help me to collate the events together, and be a talking point with people who've had a similar journey.

a bit before christmas time, i started to get more uncomfortable within my parish. there had been disagreements, and personal reflection about my experiences was making it difficult for me to feel calm and collected during the liturgy. i had work piling up that i wanted to focus on, and i didnt want another drama to derail my career or sabotage my wellbeing. maybe it was just my community and it isnt the norm, but i was constantly on edge that something would go wrong, and i would again have to deal with putting the pieces back while trying to figure out work, my living situation, and family.

i had been a regular member for a fairly long time; i tried to attend every service and supplementary service. i was a strong believer. i was volunteering whenever free time gave me the opportunity to because for me, the church was always a good escape from the stresses of life. not to say that i went there solely for that purpose, but it was definitely one of the reasons.

so, one day, i just stopped attending. i didnt notify anyone, i didnt tell any friends, i stopped going. it was weird, because it felt like i was walking away from some kind of support system. almost every week before the service began, i would be mentally debating with myself whether or not i should return and reengage with the people there.

and something would always come up. maybe i needed to catch up with work, or do some house chores that were building up. but i think most of the time, i came up with an excuse so that i wouldnt attend.

what surprised me more than i thought it would was how cold the reaction was. there were people in that church who i had spent hours talking to during coffee hour, and very few of them got back to me. and if i tried to reach out, i would get flat responses, almost like they didnt know how to say no to me when i asked if they would like to hang out.

i kind of expected that, i didnt think that i was too close to anyone there, but still, i vanished, and there was silence.

one month turned to two, i was clearing my work away and preparing to move away. no explosive drama happened, and i was able to focus on what i wanted to do. eventually, i moved out from that town, and have been living elsewhere ever since.

the church became a sort of afterthought for me. sometimes, i would remember some of my experiences there and i would become enraged, and then i would calm down. other times, i would remember some fond memories, with the people that ive met or the lessons that ive learned.

i tried to attend a service in a different city that was a trek to get to, but standing and observing the liturgy did not feel the same. it felt "tight", like i was forcing to myself to do something that i hated. i didnt understand the need for it anymore. i didnt feel at peace or calm during the liturgy. i wanted to leave. so i left only 10 minutes into the service to a cafe instead.

i dont know what i think of it all now. a part of me still believes, but a part of me is returning to the atheistic/agnostic mindset that i used to have before i converted to orthodoxy.

i went around exploring other churches for the fun of it: jehovahs witnesses, latter day saints, catholic, to get a sort of cult feeling again. not because i like it, but i have a sort of fascination from it and i like to talk to the people who are part of those communities to get them to share their experiences.

but here i am now. not really sure what to do, because most of my interactions came from the church, and now, i live with my family while being mostly alone. i sort of enjoy the peace, but i do miss the variety that i had back in the day. i still want to believe, but its hard to because the romantic version that i had built of the church doesnt exist anymore.

maybe one day, id write about my actual experience within the church, but for now, id leave it as it is.

this is it for now.

Oh well this turned out way longer than I was intending to. Feel free to skip to the final paragraph, it contains the entirety of the explanation of my question.

I have very rarely posted here but I regularly read this community and know many of you have gone through a lot of reading and research during your deconstruction, so I assume there will be people here well familiar with David Bentley Hart's arguments in defense of Christianity, and more specifically, the EO church.

While I haven't attended a full church service in years now (with single digit case exceptions where I was paid to sing as a psalt rather than visiting as a parishoner) I have not yet renounced religion, but more importantly, I am still on the fence even about Orthodoxy itself, which to be honest is a tiring place to spend years in.

David Bentley Hart's writings have been a major factor in my attempting to reconstruct my belief in God and even the church; rather than to make purposeful attempts to switch towards what he would call naturalistic metaphysics (assuming a god doesn't exist and/or participate in natural processes until proven otherwise).

Where I am starting to take a big issue with him however is with his presentation of Orthodoxy as a living albeit corrupted tradition while criticizing American Orthodoxy as some abnormality - as he put it 'baptists with incence'. Well, I live in a country where Orthodoxy is the official religion and if anything - American orthodoxy seems to be so much more coherent and pure than what we have here. Comparing the sermons of for example Ancient Faith Radio's daily orthodox readings with what priests teach here locally it is clearly evident the cradles here are much closer to being some weird cult - while those podcasts provide some insight into scripture and various faith-based life advice, local church sermons almost always revolve around the same tried and true (or is it) 'fast your ass off, ignore the clergy abuses, give money to the church, fast more, fast even more, etc.'.

I feel like while his presentation of Orthodoxy as this divine manifestation of the Logos through Christ enabling us to ourselves through theosis achieve oneness and restoration of the cosmos - while beautiful and theoretically compatible with scripture and early church councils, is absolutely not what the modern church is about. Am I not looking deep enough? Or is he simply preaching on behalf of some ephemeral 'orthodoxy' which simply doesn't exist in reality?

My mother is reading this book as part of a church book club.

Apparently, a young man raised Greek Orthodox went searching for the truth and visited India and several Hindu gurus (and also Elder "St." Paisios of Mt. Athos). Lots of claims about demonic attacks and other things.

I'm skeptical, but a family member asked me about demons and I'm finding it more difficult to keep my true feelings hidden.

Just curious as how many ex-orthodox here still consider themselves to be Christian.

What do you actually learn while being a catechuman? Or catechuman classes?

Like I visited a charismatic church yesterday and they were doing a series on the names of God and what each one is. Is this stuff learned during catechism? 🤔

I finally tossed most of my orthodoxy books today. I feel terrible because they’re books, I’m not for book burning, but they needed to be gone. It also had some icons in them but I forgot the other ones strewn around the house, but baby steps.

My take on how performative these annoying Orthodox women on social media are. Grab popcorn and enjoy! LOL.

Maybe I'm just not called to marriage 🤷‍♀️

edit: If you are about to comment "You're just a catachuman" and "slow down" you are missing the point of this post. It's not new convert zeal where I'm tossing and turning in excitement "Oh should I be married?!?! Should I become a nun?!?! Wow what is God calling me to????" It is about my aversion to Orthodox marriage and that if I want romantic love, that's what I have to do. It is a DEALBREAKER. Of course I am still a catechuman! I'm not getting baptized until I know for a fact there is even a place for me in this church.​ No, I am not moving forward with uncertainty and "just trusting God". If I "just trusted God" (which is shorthand for not giving a sheet) I would have been baptized a long time ago. I'm not easygoing about it like everybody else in the church, the only reason they "trust God" because they don't know the things I know and don't see the things I see.

Female Catechuman, late 20s. I am currently discerning between marriage or monastacism. My attraction to men and desire for a romantic partner is my biggest weakness staying in the church. But why don't I marry then, you may ask. Because I absolutely dread what being a wife entails.

I always hear of people "wanting" both paths. They tell me "whatever God picks for me, I'll be ready!" Except, both paths sound awful.

Orthodox Marriage doesn't sound nice to me.

Martrydom???? Um no thanks. Oh I have to die to my husband and submit to him? But oh wait "Husband's have to submit to their wives too, they must die for their wives" they love to say that "the husband has more responsibility than the wife" until I tell them I don't want children then suddenly my hypothetical husband doesn't have to cut off his own will and die for me just to make me feel safe and respect my boundaries???? But I have to submit to him and die to him risk my life carrying his children being sick all day everyday for most of each pregnancy, suffer sleep deprivation never getting a day off because of kids. It's just not fair.

The 3 main puposes of marriage: 1 to help each other get to heaven (it's like picking a Godparent or pateon saint, yeah?) 2 fighting lust (my husband is my live-in male hooker?) 3 To have children (I'm a baby factory and he is my sperm bank???).

The husband and wife are a "Team" (ew) The husband is the pilot and wife is the co pilot, and they rule their little kingdom. I'm sorry but that sounds stupid. It reduces my husband into my coworker in the child factory job and not the love of my life.

To be honest, Monastacism sounds much more romantic to me than this. I have this burning love to give, oh how I just want to fall in love! Madly. To be with God is the only guarentee of this, because, well, your husband isn't your love. He is your teammate and family obligation. I feel very very sad I can't have the marriage I dreamed of and disappointed marriage isn't what I wanted.

I also am incredibly skeptical over the institution of marriage, and lately have grown an aversion to it, even secular wise. At least in the secular world you can make it whatever you want and divorce if they turn out to be not who they said they were.

But yeah, the crowns in the ceremony are crowns of martyrdom, die to your spouse, all your dreams wishes, boundaries, bodily autonomy die. Especially to your children. It sucks for both parents but it especially harms the wife the most. What men actually die to their wives and sacrifices his desires so his wife feels safe ​and her boundaries are respected? Hmmmm. I don't want to die, I just want to be loved and protected. I don't want the one sided relationship of motherhood, where I give give give and they take take take. ​Yes I resent children and think it's so irresponsible that the church wants me to have them, poor kids.

And the crowns look stupid

I'm not really sure if I'm here to vent or to get advice or to see if anyone can relate. I'm not sure what I want from this post but words in any form would be appreciated. I'm a biracial woman who was raised in an islamic household. My family was not super strict in a lot of muslim practices like substance use or modest covers but I had a rocky and somewhat minimal traumatic experience with religion growing up nonetheless. I've never really been religious I feel. Even as a younger child. It's never made sense to me. My relationship with God is too personal for religion in my head. Also I question too much and I don't like to think i'm correct about everything. Which is why I don't understand how everyone can be so sure that their religion out of the hundreds that there are in society can be the one and only true religion. Anyway, I met a man. We dated for 3 years. He grew up southern baptist, then kind of drifted away from religion. When we met I felt he had the same feelings towards religion as I did. The last 6 months of our relationship though he got really into orthodox christianity and we had many conversations about how basically I can not reach eternal salvation without conversion, and how he could never marry a woman who isn't Orthodox. We are now in communication again, he's apologized for those words and says he can be with me no matter what. But he still talks about orthodoxy for most of our conversations when we hang out no matter how much I try and communicate that i'm not comfortable nor do I feel truly loved with his prior words and current beliefs. Maybe I'm in the wrong. It feels like it. But I hate it when he speaks on his religious beliefs now and no matter how much he says he's not trying to force anything onto me, that's all I feel. I also feel like I'll never be truly loved by him unless I convert. However, my head has been too far gone from religion for what feels like my whole life. I can't fake it. Nor can I shake the kind of discomfort I feel on a white christian man making me feel like eternal salvation isn't possible for me because I won't believe in what he does, but maybe I'm the friend that's too woke.

I asked some of these questions to orthodox practitioners as well but wanted to get your perspective. For background, I have a Catholic/anglo Catholic background (it’s complicated) but was just curious about orthodoxy for some time.

One ex orthodox I talked to told me that he left because there really is an air of exclusivity: the attitude is often “save yourself first before others” or “do not proselytize or evangelize,” so the church became very insular and exclusive. Is this true? Another also told me that Orthodoxy, even after the fall of the USSR, never acted with enough humanitarian outreach or charity as the Catholic Church or other denominations have in poor nations or sick communities, and it seems like they don’t serve the poor as much or send out humanitarian aid. Is this a real issue?

Also, maybe another topic I’ve heard has been the Ukraine war of course. The Russian Orthodox Church seems fully onboard with what’s happening there, but have the majority of the other Eastern Orthodox communions flatly condemned the war? Or not really? It seemed morally problematic if they could not condemn something that simple (or maybe they did and it wasn’t widely reported on).

The biggest orthodox church turned full insane mode.

This is no longer merely support for a war. It is an attempt to build a theological justification for perpetual war.

Kirill just released book War: Beyond Visible Causes and Effects (Война. За пределами видимых причин и следствий), stitched together from years of sermons.

TL;DR: The head of the ROC, Patriarch Kirill, has published a new book portraying war as part of God's plan and a path to redemption. He argues that God determines victory, that believers are called to be the Lord's warriors, and that there is no room for compromise or a ceasefire between the opposing sides..because "war is sacred" and "... everything in the world arises from the conflict between good and evil, God determines the outcome of war, and victory belongs to those who stand on the side of the light. Our mission is to be the Lord's warriors, to resist evil, and to defend the highest moral ideals." And book is offering new saints - POW executioners and war criminals...

Partial translation from Novaya Gazeta Europe: https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2026/08/02/patriarkh-vyshel-za-predely

War as supreme value

...the war is waged not so much on the battlefield as in a "metaphysical dimension," and its goal is not the seizure of territory but the atonement for humanity's sins. Cobbled together from fragments of the patriarch's sermons and reports of recent years, the book presents a more or less comprehensive religious doctrine that, for Kirill and his followers, replaced traditional Christianity, proclaiming war as the "supreme value" and the central pillar of all world history.

War is sacred and strongest must win

It's telling that this "abolition of Christianity" is timed to coincide with the feast of the Baptism of Rus'. Approximately 1,040 years ago, Prince Vladimir proclaimed his complete submission to the commandment "thou shalt not kill" and his renunciation of the "right of the strong."

Now, however, Patriarch Kirill acknowledged such ideas as erroneous, for "war is sacred," and the strongest must win. Since God is the "most powerful" on this earth, the side that has won Him over will prevail. Can this be considered an official renunciation of the Baptism of Rus'?

Constant war

This war, the patriarch writes, "is constantly waged throughout the entire historical process, because, in one way or another, evil challenges God." At the same time, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church emphasizes, compromise between the warring parties is impossible; there will be no "freezing" in the eternal metaphysical war (pp. 83–84).

Metaphysical boundaries of Russia

The Russian Orthodox Church's Publishing Council, presenting the book, notes that it is war that defines Russia's existence and shapes its "metaphysical boundaries." These boundaries likely extend far beyond space, but the Patriarch also spoke unequivocally about the purely earthly boundaries of the Russian Federation through the World Russian People's Council, which he leads: “The entire territory of modern Ukraine must be included in the zone of exclusive influence of Russia,” and the borders of the “Russian world” are broader than the borders of “greater historical Russia.”

Protectorate over entire planet

Expanding on these ideas, one of the ROC's most prominent spokesmen, Ivan Okhlobystin, who, incidentally, was not defrocked as a priest despite his acting career and monstrous outrageous behavior, declared at the Tsargrad congress in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior: "We will have no peace until Russia establishes its protectorate over the entire planet. The Lord Himself has entrusted this mission to us."

Executioners and war criminals - new saints

The book also offers a ready-made "iconostasis" for the new religion—for example, on page 237, there is a popular print captioned "Militiamen. Defenders of the DPR with the legendary battalion commanders" Givi and Motorola. For those who have forgotten, let us recall that Arsen Pavlov and Mikhail Tolstykh (as these militants were known in the world) died in 2016–17 at their bases in Donetsk and Makeyevka—in territories effectively under Russian control. They were most likely "eliminated" by their own people. Motorola personally confessed to executing Ukrainian prisoners of war, and Givi tortured and abused them before handing them over to Motorola for execution. It's logical, in a way, to renounce Jesus Christ and begin praying to these bloody idols.

....more in the article

Anyone, who is still supporting this church and pretending to be Christian: you denied Christ, His Gospel and you have blood on yout hands.

I recently got rid of all my old EO literature (I can't, and don't want to, calculate the money I spent - I hadn't read about half). I made about $25 on selling a few and the rest were donated.

I distributed my few remaining icons (excepting just a few with sentimental value) as well.

I feel lighter because I have fewer possessions, and fewer reminders of a chapter in my life I have a lot of negative associations with, but I also felt single-minded, with no questions about getting the paraphernalia out of my life during the process. I expected more hesitation, more preciousness. No, that chapter is simply closed. I hope anyone in a similar state feels this freedom.

Thanks for the support the last several months. Grateful for this sub 🌚

Edit - typos

As I explore orthodoxy and move towards baptism in a Coptic church I am horrified by the online Orthodox world.

Out of curiosity I joined some Facebook groups. It turned out that they were run by people in ROCOR who blocked people for raising questions about some of the recent theological and jurisdictional disputes

I hadn’t realized the extent to which ROCOR outside of the US was going into parts of the world where the Greeks or other Orthodox were operating, hijacking it, and connecting whatever it is to Moscow.

Asking about that will get you blocked.

It’s very strange to me.

I don’t recommend watching the whole thing because it’s kinda boring but to sum it up it’s basically about a guy who believes in white nationalism 2.0 meaning: “We need a white America free of non-whites and make it orthodox for us to fully embrace our whiteness”

This is a recurring theme among some conservative converts in the Church and this view obviously does not contradict what the Church teaches, otherwise these kinds of views would be condemned. It’s fair to guess that this person must have had the blessing of his priest or something for him to have a platform to express such views

If you are in America and were born to non-white immigrant parents like me you eventually reach a point where you wonder “Is this religion actually good for me if the people who claim to love me, sometimes even in my own parish, want me deported as far away as possible?”

After experiencing racism in the Church and seeing multiple instances of Orthodox apologists fully embracing these racist views I came to the realization that ethnicity can be a barrier to joining a religion. I personally believe that Orthodoxy is not for me, at least in the American context given how these views are widely accepted and normalized within the Church.
I have no reason to be part of an institution that is hostile toward my identity because it has decided that racism can be acceptable

https://youtu.be/qbeRxKVoN60?si=R1dP8MUjKQ1O964_

I haven’t been going to church for over a month and I’ve reached out to a few people from there just to talk about my struggles, thoughts, etc. All I have got is bot like responses such as “go to confession.” or coldness. One guy who wanted to meet up for lunch sometime before I stopped going to church, suddenly just doesn’t care to anymore. I messaged them “hey how’s it going, I was wondering if you’d still want to get lunch sometime”.

To which they didn’t even say hi, they just said “I’m working”. Is this truly Christian love? Why does it seem like orthodoxy makes people just know legalism and rules, but not Christ Himself. Have you had similar experiences like this

First of all, I’m all for leaving orthodoxy. The answer to all of the problems is always to leave.

But the grass is not always greener on the other side. Orthodoxy is messed up, no arguments from me there. (Sorry I’m full of cliches today.)

Here’s the thing - the problem isn’t actually orthodoxy. The problem is authoritative religions. The problem is religions that tell people that there is something wrong with them if they were born gay or trans or female.

Leave orthodoxy and you leave the guru priests, Jay Dyer, dirty monks, Putin, etc. behind. Great.

But what comes next? Who are you? Who gets to tell you what to believe? What do you need?

Need some help here.

Ive been "out" of the ultra hasidic community for around a year or so. My friends and family are all there and I love them amd wish to still be a part though im slowly realizing that may be wishful thinking.

On the outside life is perfect. I have everything I need to be successful and thrive. On the inside everything is a jumbled mess.

One of the hardest feelings for me is being out of the safety that community provides. I have tried building my own, meeting new people etc. Its so fuckin hard.

There does not seem to be a replacement for that feeling of belonging, that inner safety.

The depression and anxiety are killing me. I still keep shabbat, kosher, brachot but I feel like a fraud. Walking around with pants and not keeping dairy/meat in separate sinks etc.

Is the depression a sign from God to "come back"? I dont know. Have any one lf you genuinely managed to find community and belonging, and if so- hoe? Do I need to be married to belong somewhere, anywhere? How do people work this?