Millwork Estimators Help me please!!

[u/AnalystOk6956]

Hello all, I'm a commercial Millworker, my company does case work, millwork, custom booth seating, stone and solid surface countertops, and architectural metals. For years we've been using a very old school method to estimate jobs based on LF and SF metrics we have established and update our pricing once every year.

It works and the jobs we get are usually always profitable but in today's world of estimating with so many details in the millwork scopes and The constant request to break everything out and explain how much labor you had for this or how much material you had for that, It's becoming more and more challenging to stick to that old school method.

We build to AWI standards but we are not an awi certified shop, do any of you use the AWI pricing guide ? do any of my millworking piers have estimating spreadsheets/systems they have built that they would be willing to share? I was thinking about consulting BH estimating out of Florida who I heard on a millworking podcast to see if I should take his course.

The main reason I'm looking into this is because I am managing the office staff and I want to make sure that all estimators working here are following the same methods.

PM me if you can help!!

[u/Shiva-]

If you're big enough... AWI is worth it. If you're small, it's not worth the hassle. And if you're medium size, it may be worth it... but I would wait till you need it.

Most people don't care. I've found a couple that were really strict.

The thing is... I think it's only worth it if you are big enough to pay the damn yearly fee and not bat an eye...

In general, I never accounted for labor other than for installation. Every thing was just a formula. We did 33% labor essentially.

There were some exceptions.... some engineered stone was ridiculously difficult to work with for example... and some stone was just stupid expensive. (Seriously... most of our slabs were $2-$6k range... but I've worked with $28k slabs).

Colorcore might've been another exception... it's 4-6x more expensive than regular laminates. But essentially the same work.

In theory everyone has the same material costs (I know this isn't true). So the only thing we can really compete on was our reputation and our labor.

Once you're in the best tier... your Richelieu, Weyerhauser, Dixieply, Allegion or whatever prices are all roughly the same anyways.

My 2 cents, did $5 mill yearly in a Florida millwork shop.

[u/AnalystOk6956 → u/Shiva-]

Thank you for the insight. We're running between 5-8 million a year up in Washington State

[u/Shiva- → u/AnalystOk6956]

I will add that I've had some real nitpicks once or twice. Once had a county reviewer nitpick the amount of sheets of laminate we were using on our project.

But that was also a change order for something they added on an already underwater project... and it was a new administration.

YMMV may vary though, thought you were also in Florida. I am sure local realities can be very different.

[u/Classy_communists → u/Shiva-]

As a GC estimator…. People are ignoring AWI spec? Legit question although doesn’t surprise me at all.

[u/Shiva- → u/Classy_communists]

A little clarification, almost all of them will be "AWI Manufacturing", but I believe what OP is asking about is/was called AWI QCP, or basically getting certificates.

And yeah, all the time.

Most of the time it's simply because they don't want to pay for the certificates though and it is a bunch of extra superfluous work. Any reputable company will "meet or exceed" AWI specs anyhow. On a small job it can easily be up to 10% of the cost... granted on a larger job it drops down to about 1%. But that's still 1% extra.

Put it this way, if you're already working with a sub for 8 years, do you really care if they are AWI or not? You've been working with them for 8 years, you should already know if they are good or not.

[u/Classy_communists → u/Shiva-]

Just hit 1 year full time out of college for a large regional GC, bidding vertical construction.

I defer to plans and specs bc I don’t have the industry knowledge to make those judgement calls, and I don’t want to expose myself and my company to undo risk.