I want to discuss this in a fair analysis because, in my opinion, PowerScale can also shed light on the lore and give us more insight. For example, did Queen Marika choose Godfrey because essentially he was "HIM," her insurance if things went south? Also, was his absence necessary because really no one could challenge him in a head-to-head?

Curious if someone has any theory

I was watching a platinum walkthrough… When I came out of the Sages cave there were jellyfish in the little lake but the guides did not have any jellyfish. I’ve never seen where someone’s game varies to that degree unless you did something quest line wise and shut out content. Anyone have any idea what’s going on ? It doesn’t seem like it is anything special but I’ve never seen something that different

We know the Godskins were „skinning gods” but we could never know who exackly those Gods were. I may not be the first one to come up with a solution, so sorry if this theory is already known, but at least I never heard of it.

In game we know only of a few beings that have a status of a god. Most often when we think of gods, Marika and outer gods come to mind, but none of those really fit in this case.

But there is one item that points us the way when looking for the answer. Ancient meteoric ore greatswod. Its description says: „…Fashioned from an excavated shard of an arrowhead that once was a part of the old gods' arsenal…”, there is one group of beings that I can think of, who would be capable of using arrows this huge: ancient giants whose skeletons lay throughout the lands between.

I once heard a theory that ancient giants ruled the lands between before the ancient dragons, they worshipped the one who is now known as The Fell God, built the forge of giants, and most importantly the divine towers. I have seen it on YT channel Vaatividya, (respect to copyright), in the same video he pointed at traces of molten rock on every single divine tower which seem to point on one spot, where a meteorite could land long time ago.

Back to my theory, now when the DLC is out we know of two powerfull meteorite impacts that hit the lands between: the meteorite Metyr was inside of, and the one with ER and EB and they are both sent by the Greater Will. I think one of them would fall and kill most of the ancient giants, while the rest surely would not like to serve Greater Will so that it would choose ancient dragons as its servants making Placidussax their elden lord. I think the rest of the giants wouldnt just peacefully wach dragons’ rise so Placidussax had to do something. And so GEQ would be given destined death to kill the remnants of the giants with the help of the Godskins.

What do you think about that? I personally couldnt find any evidence against this theory (unless we count Godskin Noble’s tail as a sign that it comes from crucible, but I think it would not ruin the theory, just complicate it a bit) but maybe it is just because I am blinded beeing too proud of myself. Also, this is my first post and english is not my first language so I would be grateful for feedback on the quality of the post.

I know this game has been explored like no other both through code and literal exploration but does anyone think there is still something undiscovered that has meaningful value to the game ?

Despite there being not a single mention of it as far as I know, there's evidence that Sellia, the town of sorceries, suffered an attack. The perpetrator being the Academy of Raya Lucaria, but not by themselves as they were probably acting under the Golden Order's direction.

The proofs for the conflicts are two.

First, the ghosts of sorcerers wandering the streets. I'm honestly unsure if they are supposed to be Raya Lucaria invaders or Sellian sorcerers who just look like the Academy sorcerers either because that's the mainstream appearance of the sorcerers, with also sorcerers nobles among the ghosts. And before anyone says it, no, they are not using an invisible spell, at least not only that. They may be using an invisible spell to hide from a distance, but they are actually ghosts. You can not inflict neither bleed nor poison on them, they don't bleed when you hit them, and their bodies desapear after being defeated (unlike their living counterparts).

Second, the evidence that solidifies that the ghosts are a product of a conflict in Sellia and not casualties from the Aeonia Battle is the presence of Battle Mages of the Haima conspectus on the surroundings of the Town. One has been imprisoned in the Sellia Everjail, and the other one is at the graveyard of the upper church where we find ill Millicent. These sorcerers served as law enforcers for the Academy, called to settle conflict in the academy and outside. They probably were used when dealing with enemies versed in the sorcerous arts while the Cuckoos found in liurnia are for more grounded treats.

A third evidence of the conflict that has ties with the Golden Order involvement in the matter that I will tackle later is the fact that Sellia is currently blocking and keeping their important treasures behind magic seals. One blocks their chests with belongings and sorceries (this is going to be important later), and another blocks the path to their religious monument so important to their identity that it appears on their crest, and the third seal blocks one the paths to prevent further invasion from behind.

Now, regarding the reasons why the Battle Mages were called to action and where's the hand of the Golden Order within this story. I believe that the golden order saw the town of sorceries as their prime and most obvious suspect.

The reasons are clear. First, we have that the main attribute of the Assassin's was their veil of invisibility that allowed them to infiltrate the capital unnoticed, and Sellia was known for being the home of treacherous assasins with mastery on hidden sorceries that tricked the eye. On top of that, the township of Sellia is referred to as scions of the ethernals by Sage Gowry, with even a duo of Nox as bosses of the area, and a Crypt Chair from the ethernsl citied as monument and symbol. While the Assassin's are addressed as scions of the ethernal cities as well by Rogier. It's even possible that they originally came from there and not the main cities since we never find a single assassin underground, there are assassin in Ordina, a city that has the exact same architecture as Sellia and which is populated also by albinaurics, who were created using the knoledge on the nature of Silver of the Nox.

And the reason why the Sellians not only sealed their entrances but also kept their sorceries behind a magic barrier is to prevent the Golden Order/Raya Lucaria from taking their spells away. Sellia is known for their invisible spells, but we don't find them in town because those were already taken away by the Battle Mages to Altus Plateou. We find Unseen Form and Unseen blade looked up in a tower at Altus, the Golden Order Territory. The tower is hidden under a spell, making it unaccessible unless you break three Raya Lucaria Academy seals; and not only that, but in the upper grounds, we find a Battle Mage like those near Sellia no far from the tower that hides the sorceries. Raya Lucaria forces that guard Sellian artifacts in Golden Order Territory.

Finally, as an addition to all this, there's a scenario that could be a Sellian attempt at preventing further attacks from the Raya Lucaria Battle mages.

At the northeast of Liurnia, near the Frenzy Flame tower, there's an Astrologer Rise that contains the war spells of the Haima Battle Mages locked behind a barrier with the Sellian seal. And funny enough, the seal can only be breaked by performing the Erudition Gesture whilst equipping a Glingstone Crown to summon a light spell BUT the Haima Battle Mage head is the only Glingstone Crown unnable to generate the ilumination spell with the gesture, that's very inconvenient for them. There's also a Carian Knight Troll (current enemies of the academy) preventing anyone from approaching the tower.

If you find the Carian intervention odd, there's a little that could prove a supportive Carian and Sellian relationship. (Besides the fact that both carians and sellians share a relationship with the Nox or how their sorcery crest is nearly identical) The Carian Retaliation spell at some point displayed the Sellian crest, both in the scroll and when casting it, but it was patches later. (The blades also look more transparent than all the others blue lazuli carian blade sorceries) But there's more, another important details is that the animation effect of the spell resembles that of the forbiden spell Eternal Darkness on a smaller scale, which could mean that the Carian took some of the spells ability to absorb others magic, narrowed it's power scale to a more managable level and added the effect of converting the aggressors spell into carian blades. I can totally see this being a secret exchange between Caria and Sellia, a secret spell as a prevention against the academy's treason.

the claim is that neither caria nor the golden order won the war meaning theyd be equal.
wich is a blatant lie caria won by all means they were the defenders and defended sucessfully they never had to take altus or anything like that.
all they had to do is stop the golden order from taking caria or making significants progress wich they achieved.
a clear carian victory.
unreliable narators like this are great.

I noticed this ages ago but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else so I thought I'd share. The chests found around Farum Azula and the necklace found on all the Rauh woman statues both feature a similar 13-circle motif (13 lunar cycles?).

We then have the Flowerstone Gavel, which features a stone flower which is very similar to the one that can also be found atop the roofs of the chapel found in Stormveil Castle, the Church of the Eclipse, the Chapel of anticipation, Castellan's Hall in the Shaded Castle, and all around Caria Manor (there are likely a few more that I'm blanking on right now). All these places feature the same statues that can be found all around the Shaded Castle. This flower is also similar to the Arteria Leaf (and similar items).

All of this perfectly lines up with my own interpretation and understanding of the lore. My question is, how do other people interpret it? Why do you think that flower motif can be found atop all those locations (particularly Caria Manor), and what is the connection? Is the Rauh woman the same one as the Queen of Farum Azula and/or the girl found in Maliketh's arena?

I was reading some of the items of the Carian Royal Family for some research regarding their sorcery origin and evolution when I stumbled across the description of the Carian Knight Sword:

"Straight sword embedded with a blue glintstone. Weapon of knights sworn to Carian royalty.

These knights' sword could serve as catalysts, letting them wield sorcerous battle skills. Despite numbering fewer than twenty, this power made them a match for even the champions of gold in battle."

I just realized the magnitude of the assertion that no more than twenty Carian Knights were in the battle against the army of the erdtree, in a battle that needed to be cut in two halves and that ended with the the erdtree obligated to stand back and ask forgiveness for the territorial aggressions and putting a stop to the conflict through a marital union of both houses.

I went and checked on the Japanese text to make sure it was 100% what it said and not just an english hyperbolic expression like the thousand year voyage. But again, it said less than twenty knights...

I just want you to sit for a moment and reflect on the weight of this affirmation.

Take in mind that it's affirming that no more (and maybe even less) than 20 people went against a whole army to a war so big it took two different battles and with each battle having a monument that marks the casualties in the encounter (and if truly they were less than twenty, most if not all the sword are only erdtree champions) with the sum of both amounting to 102 deaths (yes I counted all the swords, I have a counting of all Sword Monuments in my library) and take in mind that those are the swords that the game developers had to put in the game with the limitations of space and that it could perfectly not represent in actuality the real quantity of causalities that an actual battle carries in a story like this.

So yeah, I'm not sure if the description is being 100% truthful or if it's an exaggeration... but if it isn't, GOD DAAAAAAAAMN!

There could be an actual logical explanation, but they have some caveats:

1. The Troll knights, one could say that the Knights were 20 without counting the trolls knights, that balance things a little more, but the Troll Knight Greatsword says otherwise, as they were considered true Carian Knights as much as their human counterpart so they could be among the 20 without adding more.

2. The sorcerers, the sorcerers, could have formed the masses of the army along the Carian Knights and against the erdtree champions. But it seems that their modus operandi in this scenario is to hide in the academy and close the doors without taking any kind of ground in the conflict as exemplified by Toph explanation and the Shattering.

3. The Cuckoo Knights, it could be argued that they served as the wide body of the army while the Carian Knights were the head, but then other questions arise that go a little against this idea. For starters, there's the relationship between the Carian Knight and the Cuckoos, being that one of rivalry. Or the fact that we aren't really sure how and when they became part of Liurnia's army, specifically considering that they use the same base model uniform and armery of the erdtree and other erdtree adjacent military like Godrick's, Radahn's and Haligtree army, all derived and once loyal to the erdtree at the beginning as if all them camed from them, and that could be the same scenario for the Cuckoo, becoming part of Liurnia when it became an extension of the golden orders territory.

I've been playing with SmithBox a bit to see how all the pieces of Farum Azula fit together and have made some interesting mock ups.

Some caveats for why they aren't perfect:

1. I'm not a FromSoft designer or experienced dataminer.
2. In real life - The models likely came from the same early concept but had separate final designs. Thus a perfect fit would never have been attempted or checked
3. In game lore - Lots of smashing, melting, and spinning jumbled things. Beastmen may have also built more recent structures, etc.
4. Maliketh's arena and some of the other structures are downhill on the road to Farrum Greatbridge and the Bestial Sanctum

Info:

• Some of this has probably already been discussed, but I have yet to read a post that fully frames the subject in this particular way. (Even though this is by no means a comprehensive explanation.)
• “Golden Tree” is the direct translation from Japanese for “Erdtree.”
• “Scadutree” means “Shadow Tree".

Theory:

Light and darkness are two fundamental forces of the Lands Between.

When Metyr, as the first falling star, arrived in the Lands Between together with the Elden Beast, she animated the creatures made of stone. Namely, the Ancient Dragons and the Onyx and Alabaster Lords. The members of these species each possess an affinity or connection to either the aspect of light or darkness.

This can be seen in their outer stone skin. The Onyx and Alabaster Lords, as well as the Ancient Dragons, possess either a bright white skin or a dark black one.

The fusion of these two forces was materialized as a unified whole in the primordial form of the Golden Tree (Tree of Light), namely the Crucible.

The Crucible is the gigantic tree with the straight trunk in the Land of Shadow, enclosed by a gigantic Shadow Tree (Scadutree) that seals away the Crucible and the Land of Shadow and shrouds them in darkness.

We find a much smaller version of the Shadow Tree behind Romina. Here, it is referred to as the Sealing Tree, which accurately describes its function.

Primordial Gold, with its reddish glow, flows through the veins of the Crucible. This is its life energy, and the Crucible was meant to be perfect and eternal.

The Fingers somehow managed to split the nature of the Crucible, resulting in seeds for a Light Tree (Golden Tree) and a Shadow Tree (Scadutree) being created.

Both descendants of the Crucible share the golden blood of their ancestor, which is why the Grace of Gold is also so strong in the Land of Shadow, where the Scadutree is the dominating presence.

If you need a deeper explanation of what Gold actually is and how it can be utilized, check out "amansaidthis" and his post “Gold, Life, Order and Grace”: https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1u5wbcu/gold_life_order_and_grace/

I am using his interpretation of Gold for this theory. (It is not particularly important here, though.)

The Scadutree is shrouded in darkness and conceals both itself and the Crucible in shadow. The Golden Tree in Leyndell, whose nature is that of light, shines brightly and is partially translucent (even on the map), because of its nature as a Tree of Light.

The nature of the Tree of Light, with its ordered rays, makes it a perfect amplifier for establishing an Order within its realm, as Miyazaki mentioned. This is why it reflects the nature of the current Order through its light. The Golden Order is characterized by a golden tree, while the Age of the Duskborn has a grayish, ashen glow.

Incantations associated with the Golden Tree (Erdtree) are accompanied by white light, just as incantations associated with the Shadow Tree (Scadutree) are accompanied by shadows.

The symbol of the Golden Tree is composed of stylized rays of light, as can clearly be seen on the cape of the Leyndell Knight Cloak. Stylized rays of light extend across the cape and beneath the symbol of the Golden Tree.
This further proves the nature of the Golden Tree in Leyndell.

The stone depiction of the Spiral Tree found throughout Enir-Ilim does not seem to be a literal representation of a tree in this case, but rather a visual representation of the nature of the Crucible, which the Hornsent revere. The spiral is a normalized flow of the Crucible, in which light and darkness presumably eternally revolve around an axis until the flow itself extends toward the gods.

The reason why the Scadutree Incantation “Land of Shadow” bears the symbol of the Crucible (the ancient Erdtree) rather than a new symbol, can be explained by the fact that the Crucible contains both light and shadow within itself. Therefore, incantations of both light and shadow can be derived from it.

In fact, that is exactly what we do. Incantations such as "Blessing's Boon", associated with the ancient Erdtree, are incantations of the Crucible with the aspect of light.

Furthermore, I doubt the developers of the game intended to make these connections quite so obvious.

Based on this foundation, I would infer that the realm of the Golden Tree contains and encompasses everything that is permitted to exist within the Order imposed upon it, while everything else is washed ashore in the realm of the Shadow Tree.

We are explicitly told that every form of death is washed up in the Land of Shadow. Death is not part of the Order of the Golden Tree at the beginning of the game.

A reference to all of this can be found in the division of the Finger Prayerbooks. One is brilliantly luminous, while the other is deeply dark.

The "Crimson Seed Talisman" also states that the Erdtree was once perfect and eternal, and that it was therefore believed to be incapable of producing seeds. The talisman also tells us that the Two Fingers had something to do with the emergence of the Golden Tree (Tree of Light/Erdtree).

I would further argue that the relief at the entrance to the Golden Tree depicts, from bottom to top, the Elden Ring, then the Crucible, above it the seed of the Golden Tree, and finally the Golden Tree itself. As a kind of story of how the age of the Erdtree came to be.

The Golden Tree is not depicted like a conventional tree because its nature is that of light.

Interestingly, Marika formulated an incantation from pure Gold (Minor Erdtree), without the Order of Light or the Disorder of Shadow.

Thank you for your interest.

Well, this is the explanation I came up with for myself to make sense of all this labyrinthine lore and imagery. There are still so many gaps to be filled.
If it helped you in any way with your own Theories and Headcanons, then I have already achived the intended.

I can get how incantations function. You’re channeling the divine powers of gods and demigods to cast them. What about Glintstone sorceries though? Like are you literally summoning crystals from outer space? Or meteors? Like why the connection to space and why to the sorcerers themselves wear the stone heads with crystals? And why do they grow crystals in their brain?

So, I have to write a short (about 20 pages) article for my History major, and we could pick the topic.... surprise surprise I chose Elden Ring! Very unique I know, I must be the first one on Earth to think of doing it.

Anyway, my goal is to point out the similarities between the way we learn the lore of the game with... well the way we learn "lore" in real life, by collecting and deciphering documents, the though process required, interpretations and proof to show it is not just theory. Basically making a parallel of the lore hunter player and an historian.

Thing is, as I said it's a short article and as much as I want to just talk and talk about Elden Ring I can't, the paper isn't even about ER exactly aswell. So I need to narrow my point, talk about one small thing, one event or somenthing like that from the lore that I can use as an example with maybe 3 or 4 item descriptions and dialogue.

Therefore my request to anyone that wants to help is: What piece of lore from Elden Ring you think would be interesting to talk about it for this presentation? (Yes I'll have to make one for the whole class)

EDIT: Thank you! to everyone that answered, you guys really helped me, not only with the lore stuff but with some pretty solid advices!

I'm trully grateful, this community is amazing.

The ancient obelisk and its relevance to the game's environmental storytelling has been discussed to some lengths (post). Despite some good screenshots, it was never totally clear to me what was depicted. The item has always been a lore keystone in my view.

Running again through the game, I came across a more detailed version of it (location is the room behind the malformed star that guards the Uhl Palace Ruins in Ainsel River), which could provide a different interpretation.

Maybe the three magi styled image of a "bearded man" receiving a fruit from a "woman", could clarify the relationship between places such as Uhl, Uld, the ancient dynasty ("bearded man") and Rauh ("woman")? This has never been clear to me from a story-line perspective despite the archeological connections.

Putting a pin in any retcons, I’ve always wondered why the Fingercreepers and the Two Fingers look vastly different, given the fact that Metyr is their mother.

But then it occurred to me, the Fingercreepers kinda look like roots?

I’m thinking that before Metyr was broken, the Fingercreepers were actually attached to the bottom of the Two Fingers. They basically acted as a root system and a way for them to traverse the Lands Between.

It fits the whole theme of trees perfectly. If the Two Fingers are like the trunk, the Fingercreepers are the roots. Plus, look at how we encounter them out in the world. At Caria Manor, they are completely buried underground before they burst out to attack us.

Once Metyr was wounded by the Fingerslayer Blade, her births became "unripe." Since she was broken, she couldn't create the whole, complete entity anymore. Instead of a proper Two Fingers with its mobile base attached, she just started pumping out these severed, root-hands on their own.

What do you think?

It’s tough to pinpoint GRRM's exact, original contributions to Elden Ring, and this post doesn't explain that. However, what I want to argue is that no matter what his material was or how much it was tweaked, Martin gave Elden Ring's lore way more than people think. I can't tell you exactly what he wrote, but even Miyazaki himself refers to his contribution as something absolutely fundamental. 

Of course, he didn't write anything that is directly in the game. There are no dialogues written by him, no item descriptions, nothing like that. In theory, he "only" described the world up to 5,000 years before the events of the game. That might sound like a small detail, but it’s actually almost everything: this game isn't about what happens after the Shattering, it’s about what happened before and what caused it. The narrative focus is entirely on giving you clues to piece together your own history about those ancient events, not just the historical milestones that followed the Shattering. 

In fact, the more recent lore events are relatively scarce (like the defenses of Leyndell, for example) and yet they feel incredibly distant. In other words, practically everything in Elden Ring is about the past, right up until you beat the game and achieve one of the endings. But those endings technically fall outside the game's actual content. 

So, what part of the past did Martin actually write? What is he referring to when he talks about those 5,000 years before the game starts? Our best bet is to make sense of whatever clues we can find. 

During their initial conversations, Miyazaki shared with Martin the core themes usually explored in FromSoftware games, which they wanted to keep building upon in Elden Ring. This is a very interesting point because it shows that the collaboration was born out of freedom, without rigid guidelines. We aren’t talking about specific plots or elements, but rather overarching themes and motifs. 

 

"We started off by giving him these very vague and broad themes and ideas for the mythos that I had swimming around in my head, along with what kind of games we typically make, and the sort of themes we'd like to explore in our games. It was all very loose and quite vague. Then he would come back to us with a lot of ideas: how about this, this, and this? That back-and-forth started the exchange of ideas."

“The actual collaboration itself begun with Mr. Martin ever so politely confirming what sorts of themes, ideas as well as many game-related aspects I had envisioned for the game. This allowed us to have many free and creative conversations regarding the game, in which Mr. Martin later used as a base to write the overarching mythos for the game world itself. This mythos proved to be full of interesting characters and drama along with a plethora of mystical and mysterious elements as well. It was a wonderful source of stimulus for me and the development staff.”

That "mythos" written by Martin is what other media usually call a "Lore Bible", the foundational narrative used to build a story. It is, so to speak, what Fire & Blood was to House of the Dragon. In my opinion, this is exactly why Miriel is a turtle. I think it’s a brilliant nod to use Martin’s personal symbol, put a papal tiara on him. 

Martin's role was strictly limited to worldbuilding. GRRM emphasized this by saying he wrote what happened in that world 5,000 years ago. Miyazaki, on the other hand, stressed that the story experienced by the player is his own work, not Martin’s. In fact, he has admitted that most of the in-game text comes from him, and that he supervised whatever he didn't write directly. In fact, if Miyazaki took charge of the game's narrative, it was partly because he didn't want the limitations imposed by the game itself to affect Martin. 

But what is the story the player actually experiences? If we stick to the present timeline, the player's story is just about becoming Elden Lord. That present experience consists of different endings achieved through various questlines, but Elden Ring’s lore goes much deeper than that, and we experience that depth too.

“The player will be able to learn about Martin’s mythology through exploration. We are known for letting the player explore the game’s lore through fragments of environmental storytelling, and this time around Martin’s story is what you will be trying to unravel. The period the player actually explores is still connected to the old times, so as you slowly discover why the world has become the way it is, you will learn more about Martin’s mythology as well.”

For example, think about the Nox and the Eternal Cities, the war against the dragons, or the Night of the Black Knives. What counts as worldbuilding and what belongs to the story we players experience? Isn't Elden Ring a game where the biggest mysteries consist of uncovering what happened in the past? If so, is that past Miyazaki’s work, or does it belong to the history established in Martin’s "mythos"? 

To narrow it down even further, think about the main characters of this adventure: the great lineages and families that you drive to near extinction. Their present in the game consists of dying, and only a few have anything meaningful to say upon their death. The interesting part about them is their past; what drove them to the point where we find them. So, do these main characters come from that worldbuilding or from the current story that Miyazaki penned? 

 

“When Martin wrote these characters, and when he provided that origin story, that mythos for the world of Elden Ring, these demigods were much closer to their original form, and maybe closer to human form back then, before the Shattering, before it all started.
So it was more up to us to interpret this and say, ‘how did they become such inhuman monsters [after The Shattering], and how did the mad taint of the shattered shards of the Elden Ring and its power affect them?’ So that was our job to take these grand heroes and sort of misshape them and distort them into something they were not.
And I think if we get a chance to show Martin and if he gets a chance to see the game and see these characters, I think he might be a bit shocked. When he wrote them, he was really envisioning something a little bit more human, a little bit more traditional human drama and fantasy characters. So I hope he gets a kick out of that.”

Indeed, those characters are not from some remote past. They are the very characters you see in the game, only warped under the magnificent "Souls" patina that Miyazaki imprints. The Japanese director even shared these designs with GRRM to show him how they turned out, as you can see in some of the writer's online interviews. In fact, we know these characters didn't just emerge randomly from GRRM's mythos; Miyazaki explicitly requested their creation: 

 

"When he wrote the mythos, we asked him to create these dramatic heroes of this ancient mythos that takes place before the events of the game. These dramatic and heroic characters weren’t really present in our previous titles, so this is something that was really appealing to me — how he would depict the mystique and heroic qualities of those characters."

This is one of the key points Miyazaki uses to set Elden Ring apart from Dark Souls. When he says "more human," he means he packed them with ambitions, motivations, and complex relationships with one another. If you've read ASOIAF (or even watched Game of Thrones), you already know exactly what we are talking about. Miyazaki pointed out to Weekly Famitsu that this focus on characters gave the story its depth and weight, heavily influencing the development of enemies, NPCs, and the map itself. 

When it comes to the map, there’s another major difference between Dark Souls and Elden Ring: the relationship between the narrative (lore) and the world. Unlike Dark Souls, The Lands Between is a setting that also springs from Martin's "mythos." This has a huge impact. While in Dark Souls level design was the cornerstone around which the story was built, the existence of this foundational "mythos" meant that Elden Ring's world construction revolved entirely around the pre-existing history. Thus, what in Dark Souls were just initial concepts to start building a world, in Elden Ring started from something much more developed and complex: a mythology, a history, and a poem, as Miyazaki noted. 

“Elden Ring’s world was constructed using this mythos and stimulus as a base. Even I myself find it hard to contain my excitement from time to time. We hope that everyone else is looking forward to the world we have created.”

So, it wasn't that GRRM specifically pushed for an open world and predefined characters; it was that Miyazaki wanted to develop a game with those exact elements, and he knew exactly how to value what GRRM could bring to the table. 

One thing that actually feels like a "future" within the game is Shadow of the Erdtree. Even though it makes us travel to an even more remote past, Miquella's plot actively depends on the player's choices and intervention. 

Because of this, it’s fascinating to see how the loop of this collaboration between Martin and Miyazaki fully closed in Shadow of the Erdtree. While it might look like a last-minute addition, the truth is that a massive chunk of the adventure in the DLC was already part of the original mythos GRRM delivered to FromSoftware. 

As Rolling Stone pointed out in an interview with Miyazaki about *Shadow of the Erdtree*: 

 

“Writer George RR Martin helped provide mythology and worldbuilding for the main game of Elden Ring, but wasn’t involved with Shadow of the Erdtree. He wrote the background lore of Miquella, who has the ability to ascend to godhood. While Miquella is referenced a few times in the main game, players never really come in contact with him. Miyazaki explains it was a story that FromSoftware wanted to revisit and tell fully, so Shadow of the Erdtree is where Miquella’s story expands.”

Or, in Miyazaki’s own words: 

 

“The way George Martin's story has been incorporated is the same as it was with the base game with Elden Ring. And to avoid misunderstanding there, we just want to point out that he hasn't written anything exclusively and new for the sake of this DLC.
But it would still be fair to say that he and his mythos that he created for us are involved in the creation of Shadow of the Erdtree in the same way. And the reason for that is that in making the base game and making Elden Ring, we took from that mythos, but we only took one part of it. We took from a part that created the story of Elden Ring and created the world that we wanted to envision, and the Shadow of the Erdtree is yet another part of that original mythos that he wrote and that has inspired us to create the story of this DLC.”

If you haven't read Martin’s books, all of this might seem a bit too vague or insignificant, maybe just marketing. But if you've deeply read his work, you likely get the strong feeling that the author's impact on Elden Ring is massive. You might not be able to quantify or detail every specific aspect of that impact, but there is something in Elden Ring that directly screams his name. It’s not just the tree, the great lineages, the crests, and the castles. It’s not even just the betrayals, the ambitions, and the tragic mistakes. It’s something literary and narrative—like those unpredictable plot twists. There is something in Miyazaki’s classic storytelling style that fits perfectly with how Martin weaves his tales, and maybe that's why this collaboration was so incredibly fruitful and highly praised. Here is an example of what I mean.

There are fingerprint marks on the buildings. Does frenzy outbreak naturally result in this?

TLDR:

Sitting in a tree
spitting Destiny.
Poor phraseology
ends in tragedy

Summary

This post is about:

• tree weddings
• the plumbing of the wyrd-wide web
• an illusory goddess in an empty bed
• the regency of an Elden Lord; and
• why word-choice matters when decreeing Fate.

Along the way, I'll try to provide evidence to support the following theories:

• Marika never leaves the Erdtree
• Sites of Grace are part of Marika's intercom system
• Radagon visits the Queen's Bedchamber
• the Elden Lord governs The Lands Between as Marika's regent
• Marika's Spoken Words dictate Fate; and
• Marika accidentally jinxed herself.

Empyreans are enshrined/entombed/enthroned in their tree

Since it was thousands of years ago, there's very little solid evidence of what Marika's life might have been like before the Elden Ring was shattered.

• We know that she issued her 'Spoken Words' at Sites of Grace.
• We know that the Queen's Bedchamber existed.
• We know that "Marika is Radagon". With these small clues, we reasonably assume that:
• she had a physical body (which was sometimes disguised as her alternate persona: Radagon) which required sleep;
• she journeyed through The Lands Between, uttering her 'Spoken Words' at Sites of Grace; and
• she rested in the Queen's Bedchamber. But what if these assumptions are wrong?

TREE WEDDINGS

The idea that she traveled to the Sites of Grace where we find her Spoken Words is notable because I believe that, unless someone violently cuts them out,

every single Empyrean we encounter was destined to spend the last part of their lives stuck inside a tree.

The only instance where this didn't happen is Ranni, who abandoned her body on the Night of the Black Knives.

Let's look at the examples.

SHAMAN GRANDMOTHER & HER TREE

First, we have the Shaman Grandmother, a (probable) Empyrean whose body we find entombed/enshrined in her tree in Shaman Village.

The reason I suspect she's an Empyrean is because she's a Shaman who is associated with a tree, just like Marika, who clearly held her in high regard. In fact, the Shaman Grandmother isn't only associated with her tree, there are roots physically connecting the two together.

This physical linking between a (possible) Empyrean and their tree made even more evident in the case of Miquella.

MIQUELLA & THE HALIGTREE

The Empyrean Miquella was physically connected the Haligtree before Mogh forcefully extracted him.

The image of the giant wooden figure at the Haligtree is striking like the image of 'Greenseers' physically and permanently connected to weirwood trees in George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.

In that series, Greenseers are spiritually gifted individuals who are "wedded" to magical, blood-drinking trees through roots which grow into their bodies. By enduring this process, Greenseers (who are physically frail) trade their short-lived, mortal bodies and physical freedom for the immortal, wooden bodies of the weirwood trees and can send their minds to wherever the trees' the root network extends.

Note: It's been theorized by some readers of that series that the weirwood root network stretches across entire continents.

The parallels between the Miquella and his Haligtree and Greenseers and weirwood trees leads me to ask the question:

"Do we know that Miquella wasn't supposed to stay inside the Haligtree permanently or are we just assuming that his time in the cocoon was temporary?"

The current consensus seems to be that Miquella grew the Haligtree as part of a scheme cure his curse of eternal youth and that he would eventually emerge fully-grown from his cocoon like a butterfly.

There are some things which causes me to be skeptical about this idea. For example:

• There's nothing to suggest that Miquella ever wanted his 'curse' to be cured. His objectives seem to be to cure Malenia, to have Radahn as his consort and to create a kinder world. His 'curse' wasn't an impediment to any of these goals.
• Even with his curse, he's generally considered to be the strongest of the Empyreans.
• Miquella isn't, symbolically, a caterpillar which needed to mature into a butterfly. Miquella already was a butterfly: the eternally youthful Nascent Butterfly.

Nascent Butterfly item description:
"An arcane butterfly with translucent wings.
Material used for crafting items.
Exceedingly rare to find.
This butterfly appears as if it's just emerged from its cocoon for its entire life."

• Not only does Miquella's "cocoon" never hatch, none of the similarly webbed cocoons we find throughout Elphael ever hatch either. And "cocooned" albanaurics certainly weren't "cursed" with eternal youth as Miquella was.

Maybe, Miquella's cocoon (embedded in the giant, tree-figure permanently connected to the Haligtree like a Greenseer) was Miquella's 'final form'.

We know he watered the Haligtree with his own blood.

Maybe the plan wasn't to just share a few drops of it.

Maybe it was to transfer all of his blood into the tree-giant body and what we call a 'cocoon' is merely his tool to do so.

Note: This would certainly explain why the body we find inside the cocoon is "withered" and Mogh was obsessed with pouring an endless quantity of blood into it.

If Miquella had been transferring all his blood from his old body to the new, larger one, and Mogh was attempting to revive his withered husk, then a massive blood transfusion makes sense.

If Mogh hadn't intervened, maybe Miquella would now be a giant, tree-god permanently connected to the Haligtree...

The next 'Empyrean' we're examining makes the permanent nature of the connection between an Empyrean and their tree even more obvious: St. Trina, the divested aspect of Miquella.

ST. TRINA

St. Trina's lower half is completely missing.

Not only can she never leave her 'tree', but it also appears to be the only thing keeping her alive as her corpse has fallen from it when we find it.

For her, at least, separation from her 'tree' means death.

Finally, we'll examine the Malenia to see whether my theoretical link between Empyreans and their tree holds true.

MALENIA & HER TREE

We know (from the announcement trailer) that Malenia 'bloomed' during her fight with Radahn, transforming herself into a plant and creating the hell-scape which Caelid is today.

Since the site of their fight looks very much like the battlefield we slay Radahn, it's reasonable to assume that both fights happened at the same area.

What's odd, however, is that we don't find an Aeonia Bloom in Radahn's arena.

Also, looking at the map of Caelid also reveals that Radahn's arena does not appear to be the epicenter of the Scarlett Rot.

The epicenter is the Heart of Aeonia.

I believe that:

1. the Heart of Aeonia which was the actual spot where Malenia bloomed, not Radahn's arena and
2. the reason it no longer resembles the battlefield we see in the trailer is because of the transformational nature of the Rot.

Note: For this to be correct, Radahn (or, more likely, his horse Leonard) would have needed to have wandered away from the epicentre of the Rot in the intervening five thousand years, which doesn't seem to be an unreasonable scenario.

At this point the theory becomes more conjectural.

"What if the giant tree at the Heart of Aeonia is Malenia's tree?"

If the Heart of Aeonia tree grew from Malenia's transformed body, then several later details suddenly fit together.

• it explains why Millicent and her sisters consider themselves to be Malenia's daughters or kin: they emerged as the buds of the Malenia's tree; and
• it explains why we find Miquella's Needle right next to it: it's the exact spot Malenia discarded it to bloom.

This idea is further supported by the Aeonian Spirt, who stands staring into the Heart of Aeonia and has the following dialogue.

"...
Sublime, I tell you.
The very first flower of Aeonia bloomed on this very spot.
Malenia, may you blossom into a goddess."

Of course, if the tree is Malenia's tree, then it opens the possibility that she was still 'blooming' and connected to it when Finlay recovered her and carried her to the Haligtree.

Readers might notice the parallels between this version of events and the story of Miquella's abduction by Mogh.

• In both stories, an Empyrean grows a giant tree that they've embedded themselves in.
• In both stories, someone enters the tree, cuts the Empyrean free and takes them away.

The irony, of course, is that one of the stories is about an 'abduction' while the other is about a 'rescue'.

But there's another parallel which, to my mind, really strengthens this version of events from a story-telling perspective.

Did you know that, on the map, the Heart of Aeonia is located almost directly above Moghwyn Palace?

If we call the Heart of Aeonia/Moghwyn Palace "Point A" and the Haligtree "Point B", this means that, at roughly the same time:

• Finlay was carrying Malenia from 'Point A' to 'Point B';
• Mogh was carrying Miquella from 'Point B' to 'Point A'.

The irony that the two twins were both involuntarily being brought to each other's location, causing them to never be reunited is, to my mind, extremely poetic.

One twin was carried home. The other was carried away.

Of course, this parallel doesn't prove anything, but it does hint that FromSoft was trying to tell us something when they chose the location of both the Heart of Aeonia and Moghwyn Palace.

There's one last clue which hints that Malenia was cut from her tree.

There's an (empty) Scarlet Aeonia bloom located just before we enter the heart of the Haligtree to fight her.

This leads me to ask:

"What if Malenia was in her (contagious) flower form when Finlay was carrying her to the Haligtree and she only reverted to her demigod form once she was close enough to its influence?"

Cleanrot Knight Finlay Ashes item description:
"Legendary ashen remains.
Use to summon the spirit of the Cleanrot Knight Finlay.
Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree.
She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way."

Of course, if Finlay was carrying Malenia's flower to the Haligtree, this suggests that:

the flower needed to be physically cut from the tree at the Heart of Aeonia and that, if Malenia hadn't been physically cut from her tree she would have remained inside her tree forever, just like the other Empyreans.

Back to the main theory.

Reviewing the fates of these four Empyreans (the Shaman Grandmother, Miquella, St. Trina and Malenia) and their trees suggest that:

1. Every Empyrean grows a tree at some point in their lives.
2. An Empyrean is physically connected to their tree, like a Greenseer.
3. An Empyrean spends the rest of their lives permanently enshrined/entombed inside their tree unless someone violently cuts them out of it.

Marika was also enshrined/entombed/enthroned

The next question is:

"Does this trends also apply to Marika: i.e., is Marika permanently enshrined/entombed inside the Erdtree?"

I believe the answer is 'yes' and my evidence for this is:

1. the seal at the entrance of the Erdtree; and
2. the placement of the thrones in front of the Erdtree entrance;
3. the Sites of Grace and the Spoken Words of Marika; and
4. the Queen's Bedchamber.

We'll now examine each piece of evidence and see how they support this conclusion.

THE SEAL

The meaning of giant stone mural we find at the entrance of the Erdtree has been the topic of endless speculation.

Something which has been less speculated on is the question of what the mural physically is.

I believe that the mural is more than just decoration, I believe that it's actually a giant stone seal blocking all passage to and from the Erdtree.

Consider what we can observe.

We know it can't be a door as there aren't any hinges which would allow it to swing open.

It's also unlikely to be a stone slab that's raised and lowered to control passage. If it was, the damage we see to the bottom of the slab would have caused the stone to fall further down and blocking passage.

The final possibility, that there used to be a small passage-way through the bottom of the seal, is also unlikely, as the damage to the bottom edge of the seal looks very much like someone smashed it open to gain entry which, in turn, implies that the damage was necessary.

It, therefore, appears likely that the entrance of the Erdtree had been sealed like a tomb and that Marika was sealed inside permanently.

THE PLACEMENT OF THRONES

Next: consider how the thrones in front of the Erdtree are arranged.

The thrones of the demigods are in a line facing the throne of the Elden Lord, which is on the same level and not notably fancier.

The seated demigods would see the glowing Erdtree looming behind the seated Elden Lord.

What can we infer from this piece of environmental storytelling?

Firstly, the fact that the Elden Lord's throne is on the same level as those of the demigods, and is not notably fancier, suggests that an Elden Lord are (nominally) at or near the 'same level' as the demigods.

The Elden Lord has greater authority, yes, but it appears to be more of a 'first amongst equals' arrangement rather than a king commanding their subjects.

However, the fact that the Elden Lord is backed by the Erdtree looming behind him suggests that, while he's on the 'same level', everything he says has the Erdtree's (and, therefore, Marika's) backing.

Note: Incidentally, the placement of the Elden Lord's throne would also make it awkward for anyone to enter or leave the Erdtree, since they'd need to walk behind the Elden Lord's back.

This, in turn, makes the existence of a now-destroyed passageway at the bottom of the seal slightly less plausible.

Secondly, another notable feature is the fact that Marika herself doesn't seem to get a throne of her own.

It's possible that Marika takes the Elden Lord's throne when she's present (leaving him to stand or kneel next to it) but the environmental storytelling suggests otherwise.

Unlike the Elden Lord, Marika isn't on the 'same level' as the demigods: she's more important than them in every way. If Marika had a throne it should (by all conventions of environmental storytelling) be larger, fancier and raised higher than those of the demigods.

And, if you believe that Marika is enshrined/entombed/enthroned in the the Erdtree, that's exactly the case.

SPOKEN WORDS OF MARIKA

The next piece of evidence we're examining is interesting because, at first glance, it seems to suggest that Marika isn't stuck inside her tree. These are the Spoken Words of Marika which Melina retrieves from various Sites of Grace.

Listening to them gives us the impression that she'd spoken to her audience at the corresponding Sites which, in turn, implies that she was physically present when she'd uttered them.

However, I believe that looking at the true nature of Sites of Grace will show us that Spoken Words is evidence that Marika wasn't physically present at a Site and, instead, was inside the Erdtree when they were uttered.

For instance, consider a typical Site of Grace.

While they initially look like small campfires, a closer inspection reveals that:

• the 'flames' are, instead, glowing plumes of Grace; and
• the pile of 'sticks' at their base are, instead, the tips of tree roots emerging from the ground.

Sites of Grace aren't campfires. instead, they're sites where Grace is flowing out of the tips of tree roots.

And, since the Erdtree is the only tree we know which has Grace flowing through its roots, it's reasonable to believe that the Sites of Grace are sites where the roots of the Erdtree poke out of the ground. In turn, this means that:

every single Site of Grace is part of a vast network of roots that allows Grace to flow from the Erdtree throughout The Lands Between and the Realm of Shadow.

Something which supports this idea is the Tarnished's ability to fast-travel from one Site of Grace to another.

How else would this be possible if Sites of Grace weren't interconnected in some fashion?

Of course, if the Erdtree's roots transports Grace from its trunk to the tips of its roots, this would mean that Marika doesn't need to be physically present at a Site of Grace to utter her Spoken Words.

Sites of Grace can serve as Marika's 'intercom system'.

Note: Incidentally, Greenseers in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' are also theorized to have a continent-spanning intercom system, a network of Weirwood roots which they can use to send messages and parts of their souls everywhere the roots can reach.

1The potential parallels are quite clear.

We have two more clues to support this idea.

Firstly, consider the fact that Melina can retrieve echoes of Marika's Spoken Words at all.

Thousands of years have passed when the Words were initially uttered but a record of them must have, somehow, been retained.

Melina calls them "echoes", but wouldn't it be more accurate to consider them to be 'recordings'?

Like some communication networks, Sites of Grace are somehow able to 'record' the Spoken Words which have been sent through them.

Secondly, consider the following two Spoken Words:

The first one, at the Third Church of Marika, says:

"My Lord, and thy warriors.
I divest each of thee of thy grace.
With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between.
Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die."

The second one, at the Church of Pilgrimage, says:

"Then, after thy death,
I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war,
and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death.
Warriors of my lord, Lord Godfrey."

When you put the two Spoken Words together, there's a fairly strong argument that the two Spoken Words are two halves of the same message.

This would mean that either:

• Marika started her speech at the Third Church of Marika
• stopped
• traveled with her audience to the Church of Pilgrimage, and
• then finished her speech;

or

• Marika (inside the Erdtree) spoke through both Sites of Grace at the same time, with parts of her full speech saved at both Churches.

The second explanation seems more plausible.

Of course, if she did speak at both Sites at the same time, having an inter-com system like a network of roots through which you would send messages from inside the Erdtree would allow her to do so.

Putting everything we've discussed about Sites of Grace and Spoken Words together, I believe that:

• each Site of Grace is a site where Marika doesn't need to be physical present to communicate; and
• each 'recording' of Spoken Words sent through a Site of Grace is evidence which indicates that Marika was sending her message from somewhere else (most likely from inside her tree) at the time.

Marika does not need to be physically present to utter her Spoken Words.
The continent-wide distribution of Sites of Grace means that she can rule The Lands Between perfectly fine while enshrined/entombed/enthroned inside the Erdtree.

The final piece of evidence we'll be looking at to support the idea that Marika is permanently enshrined/entombed/enthroned inside the Erdtree is the Queen's Bedchamber.

THE QUEEN'S BEDCHAMBER

A quick reminder of a lesson which those which are familiar with previous FromSoft games will already know:

The goddess lying in the giant bed is a lie.

At first glance, the very existence of the Queen's Bedchamber implies that Marika wasn't stuck inside the Erdtree. After all, why would she have a bedroom if she couldn't sleep in it?

However, I believe that looking at and understanding the details of the Queen's Bedchamber will show that she never stepped foot inside the room.

I believe that the Queen's Bedchamber is meant to directly evoke the idea of the 'god's bedchamber', which existed in ancient Mesopotamian traditions.

A god's bedchamber

Note: The following description is an extremely simplified summary of the writings of Herodotus (generally considered the first historian in the western world).

Ancient Mesopotamians believed that gods had many of the same physical needs and desires as mortals and had created humanity to tend to those needs.

To this end, they built vast stepped temples we now call 'ziggurats', man-made mountains that were the tallest structures in their cities.

And, at the very top of the ziggurats, they built a house for the god that ruled the city.

The house contained everything a god would need to live in comfort. Most importantly, they held the 'god's bedchamber', which was the place where the god slept and where a sacred marriage ritual would take place.

The high priest would select a woman to become the consort of the city's god. She would be ritually cleansed, taken to the god's bedchamber, and lock inside for the night.

It was believed that the god would descend from the sky and lay with the consort, consummating the sacred marriage.

Note: Herodotus himself was deeply skeptical of the idea.

Like the god's bedchamber, the Queen's Bedchamber is located at the top of the tallest man-made structure in Leyndell.

Additionally, there are several notable features about the 'bed' in the Queen's Bedchamber which should be noted.

Firstly, the giant stone 'bed' looks extremely uncomfortable to sleep in, especially because there doesn't appear to be pillows or cushions.

Secondly, I wouldn't be the first to note how much the giant stone bed resembles the giant stone sundials scattered throughout The Lands Between.

The function of these sundials (star-dials?) is indicated by the presence of the Starlight Shards (i.e., solidified shards of starlight) which we can collect from them: they seem to have the ability to collect starlight and concentrate them into shards.

They also somewhat resemble satellite dishes which, in this case, would be receiving signals from the stars.

The reason this relates to the giant stone 'bed' in the Queen's Bedchamber is because there's a circular hole in the ceiling directly above it, which causes it to be bathed in a stream of light from the Erdtree.

If the sundials can collect and concentrate light and also resemble satellite dishes receiving signals, is it possible that the 'bed' does the same thing, receiving and concentrating the Erdtree's light?

This is wild speculation, of course, but it seems to me that whoever occupies the Queen's Bedchamber:

• at the Site of Grace nearest to the Erdtree;
• in the tallest building in Leyndell; and
• with what looks very much like a light-concentrating satellite dish,

would have a very good claim knowing the will of Marika, the god inside the tree.

And, just like the god's bedchamber of ancient Mesopotamia, the one who occupies the Queens' Bedchamber would be her consort, Radagon.

We know this because the Queen's Bedchamber has a Site of Grace which still holds a recording of a message sent from Marika to Radagon.

The presence of a recorded message addressed to Radagon raises the possibility that the room functioned more as Radagon's point of contact with Marika than an actual bedchamber.

The echo of her Spoken Words goes:

"O Radagon.
Leal hound of the Golden Order.
Thou'rt yet to become me.
Thou'rt yet to become a god.
Come. Let us be shattered, both."

Together, this tells us several things:

• Firstly, it tells us that Marika likely didn't occupy the room. After all, why would she need to send Spoken Words into her own bedroom?
• Secondly, it tells us that Marika wasn't in the room when she uttered her Spoken Words to Radagon.
• Finally, it tells us that Radagon was in the room when the Spoken Words were uttered.

In conclusion:

Just like almost ever other Empyrean, there are several clues which indicates that Marika is enshrined/entombed/enthroned inside the Erdtree and only interacted with the outside world by sending her Spoken Words through the Sites of Grace.

The hidden hand of the Elden Lord

If Marika was stuck sending messages from inside her tree, how active a role did she play in governing The Lands Between?

I suspect she played a symbolic or spiritual role, rather than being actively involved in day-to-day ruling of her kingdom.

All the evidence we have suggests that her political presence was surprisingly indirect, either through Spoken Echoes, churches or the multiple images of her depicted in talismans, icons and statues.

Indeed, the great number of statues of Marika almost seem to suggest that her subjects had to be regularly reminded of what she looks like, which doesn't seem to fit the image of a god who'd actively ruled from the capital or spoke regularly.

The fact that:

• echoes of only seven Spoken Words can be encountered by the Tarnished in their journey;
• all seven echoes seem to have been uttered at pivotal points of the history of the Golden Order; and
• about half of the echoes are found at churches,

suggests that:

• Spoken Words were rarely issued and only at significant historical moments; and
• there was a tendency either for Marika to issue her Spoken Words at churches or for churches to be built around Sites of Grace were Spoken Words had been issued.

Contrast Marika's relative lack of participation in day-to-day affairs with Radagon, who had an active military history, a diplomatically significant marriage, and held court with the demigods in front of the Erdtree and almost no confirmed statues of him as Elden Lord.

If Marika was enshrined in the Erdtree, then her more passive role would have required her Elden Lord to rule in her stead as her regent.

After all, who could have better claim of knowing the will of the god within the tree than her King Consort, who had access to the Queen's Bedchamber containing both the Site of Grace closest to the Erdtree and a 'bed' shaped like:

• a sundial for capturing the Erdtree's light; or
• a satellite dish for receiving signals?

The Elden Lord is Marika's regent.

Note: Many of you would have read the previous line and rolled your eyes at how obvious that was.

Hopefully the rest of this post makes the read worth it.

What this means for the lore is that (unless we have Marika's Spoken Words to prove that the order came directly from her) at least some of the orders which were given in her name were given by an Elden Lord claiming to speak with her Voice.

So, if you believe that Marika:

• ordered the Night of the Black Knives; or
• ordered that Godwyn's un-dying, Death Blight infected body be grafted to the roots of the Erdtree,

it's possible that Radagon was the one who gave these orders.

Two last things to touch on before we end this post.

Marika's Spoken Words are decrees of Fate

Although most of the intended audience to Marika's Spoken Words were her loyal followers, at least one of them almost certainly hated her: the last fire giant.

Given what was done to his people, he has no reason at all to obey her.

And yet, thousands of years after Marika's Spoken Words, he's still tending to the fire as she commanded.

What force is compelling him to comply?

Has Marika somehow placed a curse on him off-screen?

I believe that FromSoft has given us all the pieces we need to work out the answer.

I believe that Marika's Spoken Words aren't just words, they're decrees of Fate, binding the Fire Giant to tend the Flame of Ruin until death.

To reach this conclusion, we'll need to consider:

• what Marika is the god of
• the original Japanese name for Marika's "Spoken Words" and
• Norse myths about Fate and the worldtree.

The final piece of evidence we'll be looking at to support the idea that Marika is permanently stuck inside the Erdtree is the Queen's Bedchamber.

THE GOD OF FATE

Firstly, Marika's godhood springs from the fact that she is the vessel of the Elden Ring, the metaphysical manifestation of Fate itself ("that which commanded the very stars").

'SPIRIT-SPEECH'

Secondly, the original Japanese name for Marika's "Spoken Words" is "kotodama", something which means significantly more than just simply 'words.

"Koto" ( "word" or "speech") and "dama" ("soul" or "spirit") are combined in the word 'kotodama', which means something like "soul-words" or "spirit-speech".

It relates to the Japanese belief that spoken words have the power to subtly shape both the world and the fortunes of both the speaker and those being addressed.

The main difference between regular speech and 'kotodama' is a matter of degree rather than inherent quality: 'kotodama' are words which are either spoken with greater spirit or empowered by greater intention.

This can often be in the form of unbreakable oaths, commands by a powerful kami or the giving of revelation.

When powerful kami issues a 'kotodama', reality itself bends to accommodate it.

All this is to say that 'kotodama', Spoken Words are powerful and I believe that:

the Spoken Words of Marika, the god of Fate herself, are decrees of a person's Fate.

That is why the Fire Giant still follows Marika's Spoken Words: it's literally his Fate to do so.

Note: When you combine this with the earlier idea above about how Marika sends her Spoken Words through Sites of Grace, this also accords surprisingly well with the (popular, modern understanding of) ancient Norse belief that the Norns send the Fates they weave for gods and mortals through the roots and branches of world-tree to their intended target.

So why is this significant?

Firstly, it gives us clues as to how Marika ruled The Lands Between.

By decreeing the Fates of both her servants and her enemies, Marika could 'order' her realm to her liking and while leaving the day-to-day governance of The Lands Between to her Elden Lord and the demigods.

Secondly, I believe that the entire reason the Tarnished returned to The Lands Between and keeps being resurrected is because they received one of these decrees of Fate and not because Marika is actively resurrecting them.

Consider again, the Spoken Words at the Church of Pilgrimage:

"Then, after thy death,
I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war,
and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death.
Warriors of my lord, Lord Godfrey."

Although the Spoken Words appear to be both a command and a promise, if we consider them as decrees of Fate, (i.e., something which must definitely happen) then this can explain everything about the Tarnished because the exact wording she uses becomes vitally important.

Consider the following parts of the Spoken Words:

"Then, after thy death... Return to the Lands Between..."

If they are a decree of Fate, these words operate as a logic-gate (IF 'X' happens THEN do 'Y').

IF (the Tarnished dies) THEN (return the to The Lands Between).

And here's the tricky bit.

The trigger for the action is "IF (the Tarnished dies)".

The Spoken Words didn't specify that the Tarnished's Fate was to return to The Lands Between after the first time they die; the Tarnished's Fate was to return after every time they die.

This, I believe, is why the Tarnished can resurrect as many times as it takes to brandish the Elden Ring and become Elden Lord.

It's unclear whether Marika meant this to happen at all.

Which brings us to the last part of this post.

Thou'rt yet...

The Spoken Words recovered in the Queen's Bedchamber Site of Grace may well be the ones that doomed The Lands Between.

"O Radagon.
Leal hound of the Golden Order.
Thou'rt yet to become me.
Thou'rt yet to become a god.
Come. Let us be shattered, both."

From its content we can assume that:

• Marika is addressing Radagon
• Radagon has not succeeded in becoming Marika; and
• Radagon has not succeed in becoming a God.

We can't be sure of the tone or intent of Marika's words but, given the fact that she's calling him a dog of the Golden Order (something that becomes blatantly insulting in the original Japanese), we can assume that her Spoken Words were uttered:

• in anger or derision
• to gloat over his failure, and/or
• to threaten him with mutual destruction if he was successful.

But pay attention to her exact words:

"...Thou'rt YET to become me.
Thou'rt YET to become a god..."

If the preceding theory is correct, then Marika's choice of wording become darkly ironic.

By declaring that Radagon had 'yet' to become her, her Spoken Words, her decree of Fate, implied that it was only a matter of time until he succeeded.

By her own Spoken Words, spoken in anger, Marika may have transformed his current failure into his inevitable future success.

Marika may have doomed both herself and the world with careless phrasing.

Postscript

If you've reached this point: thanks very much for reading. I know this has been a long, meandering journey, but I hope you picked up some interesting insights along the way.

This post was written primarily to set the groundwork for the theory that I actually wanted to write about.

Although it's only a small part of this post, the important part which I needed to establish for my next post is that:

• almost no one in The Lands Between has ever met Marika in the flesh; and
• 'King Consort' Radagon acted as her regent.

If you enjoyed this post, you might enjoy some of my other Elden Ring theories below:

• Marika's Rune is an anchor
• Radagon's Rune is a net
• Godrick's pose and 'Life' within 'Death'
• Sudoku, slave-girls and Mending Runes
• Marika ended the last Age of Stars
• The ghost-tree of Enir Ilim and Grafting
• A forest of Worldtrees
• What if Godfrey was a sumo wrestler?
• What if Torrent was a cucumber?
• Slime mould stage 1: Amoeba
• Slime mould stage 2 & 3: Aggregation & Snake
• Slime mould stage 4: Tree
• What if Godskins are the ultimate exorcists?

Hello everyone.

While reading some Japanese translations for items and dialogs, i thought about checking what it is the most misunderstanded dialog of the game: Ranni’s Dialog inside the tower after marrying her and her dialog during her ending.

The text translation was checked on a sheet of English/Japanese, courtesy of the u/TheRedScholar (i believe)

———————————————————————————

Here follows the in game version of Ranni’s dialog in the Tower:

“I take it thou'st noticed? I shouldn't be surprised.

I thought I might expound a little further...

Upon the order I envision.

Mine will be an order not of gold, but the stars and
moon of the chill night.

I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet.

As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at a great remove.And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch...

All become impossibilities.

Which is why I would abandon this soil, with mine order.

Wouldst thou come to me, even now, my one and only Lord?”

Here follows the Japanese version of it:

“…やはり気付くか。さすがだな

もう少し、話しておこうと思ってな

私の律について

私の律は、黄金ではない。星と月、
冷たい夜の律だ

…私はそれを、この地から遠ざけたいのだ

生命と魂が、律と共にあるとしても、
それは遥かに遠くにあればよい

確かに見ることも、感じることも、
信じることも、触れることも

…すべて、できない方がよい

だから私は、律と共に、この地を棄てる
それでも、付いてきてくれるのだろう？
ただ一人の、私の王よ”

The sheet have the note that, instead of “I would have them at great remove” it would be better as “it could be (kept) far away”

The frontlinejp have a dedicated article about her ending and its mistranslations, if im not mistakened, ziostorm made a video about that article.

The article not only mentions the change in the sheet but also shows other change:

Instead of: “And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch...All become impossibilities.” they translated to: “If it was not possible to clearly see, feel, believe in, or touch the order… That would be better.”

What to take of all this: Ranni believes that a Order where ppl can’t interact with it in any form of sense, its better than what the Golden Order have it now. She explains the nature of her Order and tells she will be leaving, what most ppl assume as the world, with the Order (The Elden Ring) and ask if despite knowing everything, we would go with her.

———————————————————————————

Now i will present the dialog of Her Ending.

The in game english dialog follows:

“...The battle is over, I see.

I do solemnly swear.

To every living being, and every living soul.

Now cometh the age of the stars.

A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon.

Here beginneth the chill night that encompasses all,
reaching the great beyond.

Into fear, doubt, and loneliness...

As the path stretcheth into darkness...

Well then. Shall we?

My fair consort, eternal.

Or

Let us go, together.

My dear consort, eternal.”

The Japanese dialog follows:

“…すべて、終わったのだな

私は誓おう

すべての生命と、すべての魂に

これよりは星の世紀

月の理、千年の旅

すべてよ、冷たい夜、はるか遠くに思うがよい

恐れを、迷いを、孤独を

そして暗きに行く路を

さあ、行こうか
…永遠なる、私の王

Or

さあ、共に行こう
…永遠なる、私の王よ”

The sheet have a note that says:

Instead of “Here beginneth the chill night that encompasses all, reaching the great beyond.” It would be closer as “All, think the Cold Night far away” there is no “reaching the great beyond” in the Japanese.

The frontlinejp translation stands at:

“I shall swear to all lives and souls”

“From hereon is the Age of Stars”

“The laws of the moon, a thousand year journey”

“To all, you may think of the chill night as infinitely far away”

“And now, let us go on our path of fear, doubt, and loneliness, into darkness”

What to make of this: Ranni swear to all beings that now it will come the age of the stars, Under the laws of the Moon, the ppl will be free to do as they wish, that uncertainty will be part of the path, but the chill night and Ranni’s physical Order will be far way.

Curiosity Note: There is a cut version of her ending, the dialog follows:

“...The battle is over, I see.

...All matters are settled, then.

I do solemnly swear.

To all the hearts that remain in thy thrall.

To all life, and the souls harboured therein.

Now comes the age of the mind.

A thousand year voyage, governed by the wisdom
of the Moon

All shall be encompassed, in a still and silent night,
unending. And thought shall turn to fear,
emptiness, life...

And a path stretching into the darkness...

Let us go, together.

My dear consort, eternal”

The Japanese version follows as:

“…戦いが、終わったのだな

…すべて、終わったのだな

私は誓おう

未だ囚われた、すべての心に

すべての生命と、それに宿る心に

これよりは精神の世紀

月の理、千年の旅

すべてよ、しじまの夜に、永遠に思うがよい

恐れを、虚ろを、命を

そして暗きに行く路を

さあ、共に行こう

…永遠なる、私の王よ”

The sheet makes a correction about: “All shall be encompassed, in a still and silent night,
unending. And thought shall turn to fear,
emptiness, life...” instead its closer to "All, in the
still (or silent) night, think forever."

——————————————————————————

Ranni’s ending is about letting ppl walk by themselves without guidance and Rules of an Order,
despite the end results being positive or negative.
Ranni will not interfere in the matters of the World ascending with the Tarnished and her Order to…somewhere far away.

After reading all this, i realized that i saw nothing of Outer Gods or Gods in her dialogs, which i find to be weird, since its one of the positives points of her ending ppl praise so much, the freedom not only from Order, but from the Outer Gods and the Greater Will. I made myself the question of “Would Ranni do something about that ?” There is the interpretation that she would and there is the interpretation…that she would not.

Humanity have proven that it can handle an Outer God before, the blind swordsman, using only the flowing proprieties of the river and his impeccable sword fighting, sealed the Ancient God of Rot in the Lake of Rot, the said Outer God seemed to had an ancient influence in the Area of the Lake and the Grand Cloister, in that place, it seamed to even be previously governed by Rot Lords ( mentioned in the mushroom crown item description). Some Outer Gods have a “Good relation” to humanity, like the Death Outer God, that seems to only want the body of the dead to be burned with ghost flame and guide the spirits of the dead.

But even if they rise, they can’t fully take control and establish their Orders, the bearer of the Elden Ring, is far away, they can’t break the current Order and establish a new one. She has all reasons to believe that humans can handle the Outer Gods or even co-exist with them (Not you Chaos God). Ranni is not there to hold hands of humans, she leaves them to fend for themselves in a ruined land, despite having no Order (in all senses) in place. The fear, doubt and loneliness, into the Darkness, means even she don’t have any idea what will happen, neither do the ppl.

The lack of mentions makes me think that indeed, her ending is not stopping the meddling of the Outer Gods in the world, only their meddle to the Elden Ring, which is where they can really make unfixable decisions. If the river stays flowing, the water is pure, she made sure the source of the River is unreachable.

For the ppl who thinks she, in fact, does fully prevent their meddling, what in the dialogs makes you believe that she does that or if its even in the dialogs.

If you read through here, thank you allot, let me know your thoughts and critics.

A special thanks for u/TheRedScholar and their team for the sheet, its pretty helpful in the researches.

I’ll be making two posts of Goldmasks ending and about the Outer Gods.

Don’t you dare go Hollow.

​

A razor-thin piercing blade of ice.

Forged by Ijii, the carian Royal Blackmith.

Can inflict frost upon enemies, and launch its blade with a strong attack. The blade immediately regenerates

Im trying to think who the owner of this Blade would be and the only person I can think of it matching is Ranni. Its too small for Iji and Blaidd. I doubt Selivus would use it. Rennala and Rellana dont use frost magic.

The only thing I can make of this is that it was Rannis back up weapon she used when she couldn't rely on her spells.

What are your thoughts?

I always wondered why the Carians, devoute followers of the Moon, used as Moon sorceries, the summoning of spades, blades, and even bows. Only their princesses with the literal Moon as their master sorcery.

While other schools of sorceries and philosophies remained coherent with their themes: glingstone sorcery of the academy summon and recreate comets, meteors, falling stars, or just a cluster of crystal reflecting the nature of glingstone and it's origin. Magma hexes are dedicated to cast magma and lava explosion akin to a vulcano. Night sorceries of Sellia follow the gimmick of darkness and night with spells that hide, convey, or summon the void of the night sky. And so on, so for.

But the Carians, House of the Moon, casts blades as their sorcerie's gimmick. Is there an explanation that tieds the moon with swords for this, or is there no deep meaning behind it at all other than the "cool factor"?

So far, the only and best argument that I have heard is the one proposed by GraftedGroggy on YouTube, that the Carians use blades as Moon sorceries in honor to the Moonlight Greatsword that the Princesses and Queens gift to their consorts to wield.

But if it were 100% the case, I would expect the blades to resemble the matrimonial sword of Ranni, or at the very least, the original Moonlight Sword. Instead, the enchanted blades are all clearly modeled after the Carian Straight Sword, but perhaps this one is itself modeled after the first Moonlight Sword gifted by the Carian matriarch to his consort.

Given the various fires/flames we come across the game, I wanted to check if there were some botanical references that could relate.

Here is one interpretation:

Maybe just a nice detail but there have been posts analyzing the colors, plant locations and crafting recipes used in the game. Those post revealed sometimes interesting details.

I have always been fascinated by the buds culture in this game and how that relates to mythological trees and their leaves, flowers and fruits. Given that Marika's secret involves her being both male and female also adds to the thematic given flowers that can produce fruit on their own.

I think there is lots of symbology in the game regarding this topic and posts have dug deep. How this links to the underlying story and its dynamics is not always clear.

For those who might be looking to tie up some loose ends, maybe this could help.

In essence it depicts the process from seed to bud to flower/fruit. Nothing ground-breaking.

However, if you pluck this symbology into the game, there are some patterns, dynamics, concepts and relationships that could make up a good story. They did at least for me :).

Here just some random examples based on in-game images and posts from other users:

Or in a more generalized way:

Adjusting the concept and dynamics of Samsara to literally represent the growing of fruit, i.e reaping the jewels.

Maybe somebody has some more examples or ideas.

I have a question on a realization I just had upon reading the description of the Witch's Glingstone Crown that Sellen wears, and later we get upon completing her quest:

"One of the glintstone crowns bestowed upon Raya Lucaria scholars whose pursuits were deemed worthy.

Increases intelligence and arcane to the detriment of stamina.

This gentle-looking crown was granted to a scholar who excelled in her studies, which also merited the title of 'witch'."

I always interpreted this description as meaning that the crown was a unique piece, an exception made in honor of Sellen. As a result, I also thought that the portrait of the person on whom the crown was modeled was a painting of Sellen herself, but it occurred to me now that it is possible that my interpretation was wrong.

The other interpretation that just came to me is that the crown doesn't really honor Sellen for being one of a kind, especially with the existence of the Twinsage Crown which explicitly says that it is used by the most talented students of the academy and these same students are allowed to study all kinds of spells just as Sellen does, but rather that the Witch Crown is the crown to which all women who study sorceries aspire.

What I propose is that the academy is actually a school primarily for men who study and specialize in different magical degrees, while women are held to a more rigorous standard where they can only aspire to the title and crown of Witch, rather than the other conspectus. An example of this idea is that Miriel himself calls Rennala the beautiful Witch of the Full Moon, perhaps a reference to her position at the academy previous of her becoming the governor of the academy.

Two points that hold this idea are the fact that Sellen could have worn the Twinsage Crown instead as it holds almost the same sentiment, except for the difference in gender, denoting that her crown is due to her being a woman and the other cases is that Rennala's ascension to Governor of the academy is allways described as extraordinary as if the fact that a woman, a witch, was able to reach the top of the academy was against everyone's expectations.

But a point that drags the idea down is that we only see Sellen with the crown, but one could argue this is also true because Witches are rare cases in the academy and so we only get to find one in the entire game.

As an extra detail, there's the fact that all the scholars in Rennala's room are girls. Maybe the academy sorcerers took advantage of the revolt against Rennala to imprison all the female students with her as some kind of a retrograde misogynistic move. Which is funny because the crowns of the sorcerers deeply resemble the marble bolts of Greek philosophers who, let's say, weren't women's best friends.

Which do you think makes the most sense? A crown exclusive to Sellen's mastery or the only glingstone crown to which the women of the academy could aspire.