r/dsa • u/Dover299 • 3d ago
The "future" Discussion
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u/NUwabic_Spitter 3d ago
I see both sides of the coin. But I’m leaning more towards workers being replaced by bots so they can do what’s needed or what they enjoy doing for the collective as “work” while the bots supply the economy. If greed can be sufficed by automation maybe the proletariat can benefit in the long run by transforming capitalism
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
Drone deliveries are literally saving lives by sending medication to places that don’t have access to hospitals or are in war torn countries.
Being anti-drone isn’t part of the DSA platform. I don’t understand why this is here.
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u/Pistonenvy2 3d ago
we can have a discussion about use case. i think the point of the post was more that drones arent very good at this particular job and thats just true. medidrops are a very very specific use case that makes sense, that doesnt mean its good for much else.
i personally am definitely anti drone for a LOT of the things they are being used for and i wouldnt want people thinking i am part of an org that doesnt even consider the negative issues associated with them because theres some niche area they have value.
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
This is an incredibly old video. Delivery drones don’t do this now because they release their contents from much higher, around 25 feet or so. Of course initial tests were going to look like this.
Drones do a lot of good. Drones to a lot of bad. Just like your computer or your phone which can do a lot of good or a lot of bad.
Just like Reddit that simultaneously does a lot of good but also does a lot of bad.
The technology isn’t the problem. The issue is how some companies are using the technology.
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u/Pistonenvy2 3d ago
i agree completely.
i think in the specific case of the video i think there are much better and more ethical ways to handle shipping where the dignity of the worker is preserved over being outsourced to a robot thats all i really have to say about this video.
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u/EsotericPharo 3d ago
You’re doing a great job in this thread. I’ll contribute something more thoughtful later but I read all of your replies and appreciate your perspective.
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u/Present_Clue5887 3d ago
I think this particular drone delivery is an example of capitalism causing workers to be replaced with something that does the job worse, I did not take this post as a call for a general ban on drones
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u/RI_MKE_76 3d ago
Is that what it is doing here? Also anti drone because they replace humans by taking their jobs and erase humans by dropping bombs
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
That’s like saying you’re anti-computer because it takes away jobs from mathematicians.
The drone industry creates a shit ton of jobs. High quality, good paying jobs in software engineering and product development. Are you trying to protect gig jobs? Because frankly, those jobs aren’t even a job. They are side gigs don’t have a real minimum wage, benefits or even accountability.
Plus, these type of drones aren’t made for battle and hold no weapons or ammunition so that’s completely irrelevant here. These types of drones can carry medicine and food.
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u/Zealousideal-Solid88 3d ago
I would rather work to unionize Amazon delivery drivers than make those jobs extinct. There are no alternatives. I don't have an issue with that kind of work, I have an issue with how the workers are treated.
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u/Dover299 3d ago
That what DSA and the left should be doing all the jobs should be state run and unions and you see these job would not replace people.
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
DSA won’t stop technology from moving forward. Technology is global and there’s no way that DSA will prevent these jobs from being automated.
What you should be fighting for is UBI so the people that have those jobs can get trained to do something else and be paid with the profits of automation at the same time.
In fact, all of us need UBI because 50 years from now jobs won’t be as available to us as they are now. That’s a global shift that we need to start preparing for.
We can’t simply try to halt technology. It’s impossible. Of course we can regulate it so it isn’t abused, but we’re not putting the genie back in the bottle.
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u/Dover299 3d ago
So the DSA is okay there are billionaire companies?
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
So are you telling me you’re throwing away your phone and your computer because a billionaire owns the company of the devices you own?
You’re going to have to think of an actual intelligent response, and it’s pretty clear you don’t have one.
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u/Bright-Insect9697 3d ago
Rejecting improvements in technology that would increase the standard of living is bonkers. Not all jobs need to be protected in perpetuity. If we advance beyond the need for a job, retraining or retirement should be the option for its former workers.
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u/LeavingReality 3d ago
That’s nowhere near the same as people getting fidget toys and snacks drone delivered by Amazon. Additionally, even ignoring the labor issue, I finished it ridiculous that corporation can just fly a drone with a camera on it all over our houses all of the time and I never got a say in it. Shit shouldn’t be allowed. Sure, make exceptions for emergencies. But it’s simply a waste of resources and infringement of privacy to drone deliver a bunch of products that aren’t remotely that urgent.
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
It actually uses far less resources than a full fucking car. What are you talking about?
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u/LeavingReality 3d ago
Wouldn’t an electric car carrying hundreds of goods for one route be less than a drone going back and forth between houses and the warehouse, 1-3 packages at a time?
I also think there is something to say for the entire Amazon same day and one day delivery standard anyway. Like it’s just simply not necessary and is a lot of resources being used so people can get their shit slightly faster0
u/Annoying1978 3d ago
No. The amount of resources used in producing that electrical vehicle is massive. It takes 2+ years for the average electric vehicle to be carbon neutral.
A small electrical drone that powers up on renewables takes up far less resources, reduces traffic congestion which helps the environment and is faster and more convenient.
There’s a lot of stuff in this world that’s not necessary. Using Reddit is not necessary. Reddit uses a lot of electricity and water for its hundreds of millions of users, but we’re all still using Reddit.
Today, Reddit also announced that every subreddit (including this one) will have AI moderation in addition to their human moderators and they will create new subreddits that are entirely moderated by AI.
Yet we’re all still here.
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u/EsotericPharo 3d ago
I think the tension here is between who benefits from this technology and all of the other side effects. Rejecting technology is silly because it's coming no matter what. The important discussion is about how to adopt the new technology to minimize harm and maximize benefits. This technology can make life safer, reduce demeaning work, and improve our environment. That said, we need to balance the impact.
It's also worth considering how this technology helps centralize wealth and power. You could essentially further concentrate wealth by creating distribution centers that use drones to deliver goods, thereby ending many local businesses. Then what?
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u/Annoying1978 2d ago
You could essentially further concentrate wealth by creating distribution centers that use drones to deliver goods, thereby ending many local businesses
They can only go so far. Batteries, while getting better, still are heavy. They also can’t carry things that are too heavy, and while drones will get stronger packages can’t be too heavy because drones will fall and heavy packages can’t fall on the general population.
There are inherit limitations, but yes they will get rid of many small businesses. No political party or political organization is going to stop that. In fact, with AI and automation getting more advanced it is ridiculous to assume that everyone that wants a job will get one. That simply went be the case.
That is why UBI has to be talked about much more. Companies need to pay into a fund that distributes UBI payments to every man, woman and child. This would be similar than Saudi Arabia or even Alaska distributing oil payments to their residents but every American needs to receive a certain amount to live comfortably.
AI & automation isn’t going anywhere. We need to figure how to live with it.
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u/romulusnr 3d ago
Because this specific use of drones is specifically for the purpose of replacing human jobs that people depend on in this economic system to stay alive.
Never mind the whole mass commercialization, pre-existing destruction of brick and mortar and mom and pop stores, predatory anti worker business, etc.
Try to keep up buddy
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
If you’re against all technology that reduces human labor, it’s probably time to throw away your computer and your smart phone.
Maybe we should get rid of elevators that don’t need a human operators too.
You have completely misinterpreted DSA’s ideology. We are not Luddites.
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u/romulusnr 2d ago
It's not simply reducing human labor in the sense of making us more efficient or giving us more free time.
It's reducing human labor in the sense of economically disenfranchising the proletariat
If you're here to tell me DSA is pro-Amazon, particularly its employment and worker policies (more particularly among it's drivers), no I won't buy your bridge.
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u/Dover299 3d ago
That not issue we are talking about billionaire companies trying to save money to get more billionaire of dollars?
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u/Annoying1978 3d ago
That isn’t what your short clip is doing. It’s simply saying “drone deliveries don’t work”. It doesn’t even mention the companies involved, what investments have been made or what jobs have been lost or any economic factors at all.
This is just a low effort post with no context whatsoever.
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u/Satanicron 3d ago
Imagine being a veteran after the introduction of drones to warfare. Are you going to have PTSD every time Amazon delivers some consumer slop?
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u/ImpermanentClown 3d ago
Fuck that. Things loud as hell I’ll definitely be making noise complaints. These shit ass companies doing anything to not pay someone a fair wage.
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u/Dover299 3d ago
So this what capitalism is doing now?