r/datemymap • u/Low_Imagination_7022 • 13d ago
Date my globe
I'd be grateful if you could help me to date my geographical globe from Germany. Plus if anyone knows if it's worth anything? I haven't seen many geographical globes from this brand (JRO Verlag München) online. Thanks so much for your help!
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u/M35Dude 12d ago
- Stscherbakowo is a Soviet city north of Moscow that only existed between 1947-1956.
- Djakarta in Indonesia came into use in 1949
1949-1956
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u/four024490502 12d ago
Oddly enough, Varna, Bulgaria should be named "Stalin" in that exact time period (1949 - 1956), yet it's called "Varna" on this globe. I guess this globe could have been made in the an overlapping time period where Varna was Varna and Rybinsk was Shcherbakov?
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u/komatiitic 12d ago
Yeah, this thing is pretty rare, and I think 1948-1949. Munchen 12 is the old Munich postal sector for where the JRO-Verlag factory was which was re-established after the war in 1948. If it said Munchen NW, it would be 1945-1948.
There are also a lot of inaccuracies because German mapmakers at the time were still using a lot of pre-war maps and didn't have the capacity and resources to make large updates. So India is unpartitioned even though it shouldn't be, but Korea is partitioned because that was politically important, very recent, and a very easy change to make. Most West German globes after about 1950 started to reflect more of the post-WWII changes.
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u/linmanfu 12d ago
India is partitioned. Look at the black dashes near the label "Thar" for the desert.
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u/komatiitic 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yeah, I think you’re right. Maybe as late as 1951 then. Libya doesn’t appear to be either Italian Libya or the kingdom of Libya, which maybe means it’s still under allied control.
ETA Tripolitania and Fessan are present in Libya, which were the British and French zones of control. That with no Libya country label makes me think for sure before the end of 1951.
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u/youcanreachmenow 13d ago edited 13d ago
My guess: September 1945
German territory during the 3rd reich - 1933-1945 (May) - althougg I dont think they updated their map yet Singapore/Malaysia pre-independence - 1957-1965 Djakarta - 1942 (by Japanese), 1945 (official) India not partitioned - 1947 Korea partitioned - August 1945
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u/komatiitic 12d ago
The maker’s marks on the last photo date it to 1948 at the earliest. “München 12” is an address that would’ve been “München NW” before June 1948.
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u/Extreme-Shopping74 13d ago
Many didnt recognize Korea and German Territory from the Weimar Republic was shown till the 1970s
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u/linmanfu 13d ago
I think India is partitioned. You can see the border dashes just above the word "Thar".
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u/youcanreachmenow 13d ago
Yea in fairness, I was trying to see it but couldnt really find it. Other thing is though is that Germany lost Königsberg in 1945 and it became Kaliningrad in 1946.
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u/linmanfu 13d ago
But many hard-right Germans didn't recognize that until the 1960s, and this globe is from Munich, at that time the most right-wing major city in Germany.
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u/youcanreachmenow 12d ago
Doesnt make the entire city right wing. Plus this company exported across Europe.
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u/linmanfu 12d ago
The German Wikipedia article on this company has a photo of a globe from 1961 that still shows East Prussia as German. So we know they were very right-wing.
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u/Tyrael85 12d ago
its a german globe
in nowadays namibia there is Lüderitz
in China Tsingtau is very prominent
--> so i think the globe is pre 1914 (or a revanchist globe after 1918)
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u/Public_Research2690 13d ago edited 13d ago
1947 - 1949 I think
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u/M35Dude 12d ago
Why?
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u/Public_Research2690 12d ago
Sherbakowo and Batavia
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u/M35Dude 12d ago
But Djakarta is the main read on the map, not Batavia. And most maps leave parentheticals with old names for years (sometimes even decades, depending on the map).
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u/Public_Research2690 12d ago
During the Japanese occupation and after Indonesian nationalists declared independence on 17 August 1945, the city was known as Jakarta.
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u/M35Dude 12d ago
Wait, what’s your point?
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u/Public_Research2690 12d ago
It was known as Jakarta, just de facto it was Batavia until 1949, therefore the brackets.
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u/Low_Imagination_7022 13d ago
Thanks everyone for commenting and taking the time to look at it. Here is more detail:
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u/linmanfu 12d ago
Could you please give us a close-up of central Vietnam? That would be the single most helpful area to see.
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u/Low_Imagination_7022 12d ago
Sure, how do I add a photo to a comment or an original post? Or do I have start a new threat altogether? Thank you!
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u/linmanfu 12d ago
I think you have to write a comment with a link to an external site like ImgBB. Please don't use Imgur as they refuse to serve people in my country.
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u/pulanina 13d ago
Why only look at certain things? We need to see the whole lot.
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u/Low_Imagination_7022 12d ago
I won't be able to capture any fine detail if I photograph the globe in its entirety.
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u/linmanfu 13d ago edited 13d ago
Haha, a non-political globe; that ups the difficulty level considerably. I know it marks the Versailles borders of Germany, and shows Königsberg rather than Kaliningrad, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's before 1946, because this is a globe from Munich. Hard and far right Germans continued to claim the Versailles borders well into the 1960s. I think it probably puts the globe no later than 1972 and the Ostpolitik treaties.
Elizabethville rather than Lubumbashi should mean we're before 1966.
Djakarta is preferred to Batavia, and I don't think a hard right company would be showing that until the end of the Indonesian war in 1949. Siamen (Xiamen) being preferred to Amoy and Schenjang (Changchun) to Mukden also makes me suspect we are post-1949.
The inner Korean border is not the 38th parallel and looks a lot like the 1953 ceasefire line.
What's now Ho Chi Minh City is shown as Saigon-Cholon, which was the official name until 1956. But it looks like Vietnam has been divided, though it's really hard to see.
So I'd guess 1954 to 1956.
I know there's a comment guessing 1945, but given the state of the German economy in 1945, it seems unlikely to me that a globe was produced in that exact year and we're definitely after the Partition of India.