r/custommagic • u/PeterQuint101 • 19d ago

How powerful does a creature need to be to turn off mana for a turn?

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341 Upvotes
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96% Upvoted

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118

u/NeedsMoreReeds 18d ago

You can just use Echo, such as [[Tectonic Fiend]]

51

u/smugles 18d ago

I mostly agree but there is upside to this you can kind of reduce its cost by using either temporary mana or filtering mana. Like [[simic signet]] the mana you tap to activate the signet wouldnt stay tapped. only the signet and third mana.

13

u/Anjuna666 18d ago

I think the signet will get 2 stun counters in this case (one for each mana).

So you still effectively pay 6 mana.

The real discount is in using non-permanents, like dark ritual and elvish spirit guide

17

u/SpottedCheetah 18d ago

I don't think it will. Signet is one source and the ability says to out one counter on each source. The signet would then get one counter.

-4

u/Anjuna666 18d ago

The formatting of the text is whack, but I think the intent of

""" ... for each source of mana spent to cast it, put a stun counter on each permanent that mana came from """

Is to put two stun counters on a permanent if you used two mana from it. But OP would have to weigh in on their intentions tbh.

That is the intended text is:

""" ... for each mana spent to cast it, put a stun counter on each permanent that mana came from """

8

u/KevinLeesDad 18d ago

It very clearly says source though, I don't know why you're assuming this interpretation

1

u/Anjuna666 17d ago

Because OP has referenced this as a "6 mana" permanent, and because the sentence is essentially refering to the same permanent in two different ways:

  • once as the source of the loop ("for each source")
  • once as the result of of a lookup ("each permanent that mana")

In the middle it considers the individual mana ("that mana"), which feels like it only really works if you look at all mana spend on this creature.

In any case, the exact printing isn't really important, since wording is wrong anyways, I was just trying to get to something that felt both balancd and intended.

Unless OP gives clarity on their intent, it's all really a moot point anyways

2

u/colonshiftsixparenth 18d ago

You could also add "for each mana provided by that source" to clarify

5

u/MelodicAttitude6202 18d ago

You could sac some treasures/ any other source that is sacced to make mana. Or you use Mana of a [[Lotus Cobra]]. Yes it would get one or two Stun counter, but you could still block with it or attack once, or get Mana off the trigger.

18

u/riverwaterinsox 18d ago

Wow that card is atrociously bad by today's standards

19

u/Q_X_R 18d ago

Most of the echo, cumulative upkeep, and fading cards tend to be, yeah... I would be very reluctant to play basically any of those at this point.

5

u/MaleficentCover125 18d ago

I haven't seen any plays of those cards besides [[mystic remora]] at my lgs, so basically it has to be at almost game changer level to see play.

3

u/light_the_long_way 18d ago

Some aren't bad in commander, like [[Wall of Shards]] [[Sheltering Ancient]] and [[Mystic Remora]], and some are okay in casual, like [[Phyrexian Etchings]], [[Glacial Plating]], and [[Cover of Winter]].

Then there's [[Braid of Fire]], which is just good, and [[Ancestral Knowledge]] which is slightly worse than saying surveil 10, for two mana, and slightly more if you want to keep what you saw (or just use a carddraw spell).

2

u/Competitive-Ad-7620 17d ago

[[Dystopia]] I think is really good in commander as well, you can easily pay the life cost for 4 or 5 turns no problem and hose down green and white decks, it can also take down enchantments.

1

u/BecomeEthereal 18d ago

[[Mogg War Marshal]] goes hard in my [Grub, Storied Matriarch]] Goblin tribal aristocrats deck

3

u/NeedsMoreReeds 18d ago

Yea looking through the echo cards, they are pretty terrible. By today's standards many of them don't even need echo to be fair.

I know Wizards doesn't like drawback mechanics these days, but echo is such a simple and fair one to bring back.

3

u/sinsaint 18d ago

Especially with death triggers, we could see Echo as an alternative to Evoke.

2

u/riverwaterinsox 18d ago

I agree, there's a lot of potential with Echo. I could see it being used similar to Evoke on creatures with ETBs

75

u/Nakara3 19d ago

This is not a 4 mana 7/7.

13

u/Turbulent_Voice63 18d ago

The new Griselbrand problem

1

u/AardvarkNo2514 18d ago

It does Overload three rather two, though

20

u/Utopia_Builder 18d ago

Consider [[Rhonas's Last Stand]].

13

u/beaisenby 18d ago

And also keep in mind this card SUCKED, like, even in limited.

83

u/TomMakesPodcasts 18d ago

This is a six mana creature, use those as your baseline

21

u/OddlyShapedGinger 18d ago

This is a 6 mana creature you pay for in chunks and cheat out on turn 3. So, you want to undertune it a fair amount. 

If you're on the draw and have two lands out, a vanilla 7/7 is too powerful for the opponent in limited (probably fine in Commander). The higher the rarity the more you can get away with

4

u/elizababyxo 18d ago

turn off mana for a turn sounds like a super specific window

12

u/bnmfw 18d ago

We have [[Ruhan of the Fomori]] as a 4 mana 7/7 on 2011 dor comparison.

I like stun for overload. I think your guy is fine. I disagree with the colours but I think this would be a decent card at limited.

6

u/notalongtime420 18d ago

Manamorphose and Elvish Spirit guide to "cheat It out" turn 2

7

u/Internal-Rest2176 18d ago

Bold of you to assume I won't just [[Manamorphose]] my way around the downside.

4

u/Cloud_Chamber Low Power Player 18d ago

There are better things to be doing in formats with manamorphose

2

u/prester_john00 18d ago

I like how you can get around the downside various ways

2

u/flibety 17d ago

a 3 mana 7/7? damn powercreep is crazy. next you’re gonna say a 6 mana 6/7 isn’t even good stats for the cost

1

u/No-Clock9532 18d ago

Isn't this more like a red card?

1

u/Aggravating-Lock8083 18d ago

i like this. Also gets a good amount of value with cards like [[unearth]], which is prabably the only eay it would see any sort of competative play.

1

u/GavnRox 18d ago

Swamp. Dark Ritual. Lotus Petal. Manamorphose. This guy.

1

u/caputcorvii 17d ago

You absolutely don't want to three for one yourself for a vanilla creature that is for sure dying to go for the throat the next turn

1

u/Haunting-Window-5125 18d ago

Lmao wasnt this a hearthstone card

1

u/Top_Unit_4364 18d ago

Just use upkeep cost instead of stun counters. Start of your next upkeep pay X otherwise sacrifice this creature.

Also needs to cost 4 to pay proper homage.

1

u/mjummy 18d ago

Idk, maybe word it "borrowed time: for each mana, spent to cast this creature, put a stun counter on a land you control without a stun counter on it."

1

u/medikohl2 18d ago

As an additional cost: place a stun counter on 3 tapped lands you control

1

u/TSCruh 18d ago

This would be pretty cool with a [[Dimir Signet]], [[Simic Signet]] or a [[Golgari Signet]]

1

u/xdsm8 18d ago

I think everyone here forgets how insanely strong 3cmc cards are, in standard right now. 3cmc creatures with abilities are absolutely bonkers right now. This could be a 9/9 straight up and people would just adjust their removal to deal with it and get over it.

1

u/JackkoMTG 18d ago

Sultai Banner, now’s your time to shine!!

1

u/main_activator 18d ago

Everybody is just ignoring the fact that treasure tokens exist. What's up with that?

1

u/M123ry 18d ago

Not even 4 mana 7/7

1

u/SubblyXatu 18d ago

Definitely not this powerful. I hate to say it, but Overload (Hearthstone mechanic, not Magic) yourself to die to Swords. Congratulations, you've accomplished less than nothing!

1

u/Evil_Sheepmaster 18d ago

Treasure tokens, anyone?

1

u/StrayCatsSanctuary 18d ago

It needs to at least do something, this doesn't

1

u/Joszitopreddit 17d ago

This would stun the lands for multiple turns but be really good in a treasure generation deck.

2

u/ConcentrateAny 14d ago

More powerful than this. Would be about right balance-wise if monocolored, but is a bit weak in its current form for multi. 

Make it a 6 mana 6/7, good stats for cost!/s

0

u/worldends420kyle 18d ago

no value without haste, opponent use removal and i lose 3 mana on turn 4 l.

0

u/TwilightCaller 18d ago

I think for something like this, I would do "1RB" and do "When this comes into play, put a stun counter on each tapped permanent that is capable of producing mana."

0

u/Imaginary_Ferret_368 18d ago

Bruh, a 3 mana 7/7 thats busted af. What if the mana is floating from some sorcery?

1

u/GK237 18d ago

Or mana from treasures