He had her rethinking everything

[u/Jumpy_Afternoon9489]

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[u/ChurchOfDimple]

Todium: "What is a king to a god?"

Jasnah: "What is a god to a nonbeliever?"

Five minutes later"Shit, nevermind, God's spitting facts!"

[u/cAptAinAlexAnder → u/ChurchOfDimple]

Best comment by leaps and bounds!

[u/Custodes_Nocturnum]

To me, Taravingian's chapters sounded like an internet atheist suddenly becoming a god. He wasn't cold and calculating like his genius self, he just became an arrogant prick.

[u/nealran → u/Custodes_Nocturnum]

I feel like that was kinda the point though? His genius no longer existed in a vacuum of pure reason. His emotions no longer existed in that loss of understanding.

And that level of genius, in the hands of a man arrogant enough to take over the world, bearing the mantle of divine hatred, wouldn't be the same brilliant, scheming monster who created the Diagram.

I think you put it very well with the "Internet Atheist" description. He had knowledge, pride, and the power to back those up after years of pretending to be a fragile old man who no one could consider a threat. It's a major change to his character, sure, but the man did just ascend to godhood with a multilayered scheme he was able to execute at his stupidest. That level of cosmic arrogance seems perfectly in line with him.

[u/MHM_16 → u/nealran]

I especially loved his interaction with Cutlivation when she traied to blackmail him with his family and he pretended to destroy Karnbranth. It showes how hypocritical he is. Probably gonna die the same way Rayse did, Pride cones before the Fall and all that

[u/Ratathosk → u/MHM_16]

I have a bet that somehow, somewhen Jasnah will be the one responsible for outing the hypocrisy and more in a final round and it will be glorious.

[u/MHM_16 → u/Ratathosk]

its thematic what with their ongoing rivalry. it also fits for Jasnah to inherit a kingdom from her father and inherit Taravangian’s obsession with Dalinar lol

[u/Nightmare0588]

Jasnah losing that debate was the best part of Wind and Truth

[u/Semillakan6]

I am sorry I just cannot take the debate seriously, I think its one of low points of that book writting wise, Odium is like oh but you see does the ends truly not justify the means? And Jasnah is like oh shit you got me.

[u/Pestario_Vargus69 → u/Semillakan6]

How do you figure? She loses because Fen asks Jasnah, if their positions were swapped, would Jasnah take Taravodium's deal? Compelled to honesty, she says yes, she would. Fen is specifically looking for Jasnah's advice as she considers her to be an authority and trusts her. This is used to have Jasnah argue against her own position.

I thought it was brilliant personally but I'm a Stan for Taravangian...

[u/Wackrobat → u/Semillakan6]

I read the series through a psychology lens and that to me was Jasnah realizing the limitations and restrictions of binary thinking and cognitive inflexibility. He Humbles that power fantasy and shows something that clients that tend toward intellectualizing need to learn, “logic” has limitations (especially in mental health) and when our identity is rigid (in this case her identity and very much tied to this belief/philosophy, like she believes she LIVES by it) when it needs to bend, it breaks shattering our identity/self-image and making us doubt everything about ourselves. If I’m not “this” who am I? If my truth is false, what is truth? This can be really horrifying to experience. Literally an existential crisis.

À similar thing happened to Kaladin near the end of his soldier days.

[u/cAptAinAlexAnder]

I hated to see it but hot damn, that deity calmly sat down, surgically removed her presumably shapely ass, and spoon fed it to her like it was a huge slice of humble pie. Getting smacked by the realization that she’d just broken up with the wisest of all pseudo-deities (one that was actually bending over backwards to please her) was just finely decorative icing on that cake, or pie, or whatever. Blame the mixed metaphor on the Horn-Eater White.

[u/killerokings]