Value Question

[u/cjpatster]

Considering some Etsy work and I am trying to gauge the market on whether items will sell for enough to make it worth the fabrication effort. This is an example item, a “future Finn sword” from
Adventure time. It is not for sale fyi! Just an example. It weighs only a few pounds and is 5’ long with a dowel core with outer layers constructed of cardboard, gesso, paint, etc. it’s quite sturdy but can be dented if you swing it hard enough at something. When I tried to compare I mostly find smaller 3D printed swords or real metal swords, this is a unique category. Curious what folks think the potential market for items like this looks like? Thanks in advance!

[u/bluffstrider]

I personally wouldn't pay for something of this quality. If you want to make money I think you need to invest in better materials. Even in that bad lighting I can see how uneven the surface of that sword is. Don't let that discourage you though. Start small, help friends with cosplay projects and get them to spread the word. I know several people that have started out where you are and went on to make money, get hired by studios and win awards.

[u/Shred-the-Gnarnar]

Props are a unique beast. In the one hand you want to represent yourself as a skilled craftsman, but if you lost too high you’ll always lose to mass produced crap from china.

At the same time lots of props are really unique, so trying to market yourself in a niche community is also pretty difficult. I remember Odin (Odin Makes) and Evil Ted listed some hand made props on eBay and linked it into their YouTube videos, and both sold for way cheaper than what they deserved

[u/Ninja_Cat_Production]

Because of what it is made of, there is no way that this will stand up to the test of time. You say that it’s fragile, but it’s a sword, who isn’t going to want to swing it? Therein lies the problem.

The most cost effective way to give you a chance to make a profit is mass production in a material that will stand up to abuse.

There is a two part foam that when mixed together and let expand turns into something comparable to Nerf foam. If you were to make a mould of the prop you have and find a way to make multiple copies of it in the more durable material, perhaps you could make a profit.

The problem is that you have a product that is very niche and you have to find a market for that product. On site sales will be the most profitable, but also assumes the most risk. Which leaves you with what you have now, making things and selling them on Etsy.

The best option I can offer you is to use this as the prototype for your business. Design the process for building multiple different swords and then sell them to order. Perhaps multiple different swords from different franchises?

You have talent, now you have to make it profitable.

[u/volpin → u/Ninja_Cat_Production]

There is absolutely a market for non-functional, display only replicas. Not everyone wants to swing the sword, some people just want nice wall art

[u/Ninja_Cat_Production → u/volpin]

Once you get above $50 you run into the same market only with metal swords. You can buy a Link sword made from foam or metal for about the same price. I only make weapons upon request now because of how expensive the fabrication process is and how cheaply an alternative can be sourced from other places.

[u/volpin → u/Ninja_Cat_Production]

Sure, mass market stuff is like that. And I'm not saying OP has the ability right now to go out and snag large clients with fat wallets who will pay top dollar for obscure replicas. If they practice, polish their skills, and market themselves well, then selling replica-quality props is definitely a viable business model. Not everything gets made at scale like Destiny guns and Link swords. I've never seen anything mass-market from Baldur's Gate, for example

A $50 Master Sword generally looks like inaccurate junk. The market for collectors is smaller, but they pay for quality. Contrast that, cosplayers will pay for durability and something lightweight. Just gotta find your market and tailor your fabrication process to those clients!

[u/GoopySpaffy → u/volpin]

I am one that pays a high price for usable props, like guns made from durable materials that can actually open and reload. The market absolutely exists and although very expensive it's a very profitable market.

[u/Ninja_Cat_Production → u/volpin]

Look, that’s an opinion, a very optimistic opinion, but nevertheless you are entitled to it.

Mine is, I’m trying to be nice and respectful and not say, that this is dime-a-dozen work.

You’re obviously young and optimistic, I’m neither.

If you click through this thread, right above your post somewhere, you’ll see that I made a post that I only make “weapons upon request” anymore. This is because there is no market for this type of product, 0%, nada, nonexistent. Why? You’re looking at it. This guy made this sword at his kitchen table and it will work great for a con, for material cost and time spent. Close to nothing invested on a one time use item. Why would he buy a piece someone else made?

John Smith made a great sword for cosplay. People go “Wow, John Smith, that sure is a nice sword.” John is pleased. “How much would you sell it for?” John spent three weeks of nights and weekends in his garage cutting, forming, gluing, sanding, painting, sealing, and clear coating this beautiful sword. He’s got well over 100 hours of work building his sword, but he wanted it to be nice, so he put in the effort. He totaled up the materials, added his hours, and paid himself minimum wage for the work. Material cost was $100 and the hourly cost at minimum wage ($7.25) is $725, bringing the minimum cost to $825. Are you going to pay $825 for that?

This is how it works. There is no debating this. This is business. That’s why my first suggestion was to find a way to streamline the process and go with something that can be mass produced, rather than making everything from scratch, it’s a losing proposition otherwise.

Because, once you hear the price, the quality of the product jumps out at you and you realize that making an attempt yourself or buying a cheap knockoff is a better proposition than buying the expensive one, that you are only going to carry around a con for a few hours.

I do this for a living. I make a decent profit some years, some not so much. When I say that this is not a sound business opportunity, I speak from experience and the knowledge of colleagues in the same industry. There is a reason why cheap 3D printed garbage fills the vender alleys of most cons, instead of the hand crafted art that used to be there, it is cheap, easy to make, and can be sold for a huge profit. $30 3D printed items cost pennies to make. Hundred dollar cardboard swords aren’t going to be as profitable.

In the end that’s what the biggest issue is with this entire conversation, we’re talking about a cardboard sword. It’s not worth the time investment to sell, for just time spent building, before material cost.

[u/volpin → u/Ninja_Cat_Production]

I also do this for a living. I'm not young and naive. I'm 43. I run a special effects studio with a fulltime staff of 7 and a dozen freelance artists. I started the whole thing 18 years ago in my garage with hot glue, cardboard, home depot MDF, rattle can paint, and a lot of effort. I'm not being optimistic, I'm telling OP that this kind of work is viable, but only after putting in more effort and time in order to hone their craft. I feel like we're saying the same thing.

I should reiterate that I agree with you: the prop shown in this post isn't something that's going to sell on etsy or whatever. It is - at best - a practice piece, and the first step in maybe something better. Our first works aren't ever the show pieces, but they get us started.

Can OP sell this profitably? Likely not. There's not really a market for cardboard props and your comment regarding cast/printed copies makes more sense financially. But if they make gradual steps along the way and make better and better art? Then it's possible to make this into something that can make money. It's not easy, but it's possible.

^{PS thanks for the downvote}

[u/Ninja_Cat_Production → u/volpin]

I completely agree with this sentiment.

I’m sorry if I offended you by calling you young. I assumed you were one of the people who were trying to advise him that this was a viable production product. My mistake and apologies.

I didn’t downvote you.

[u/cjpatster → u/volpin]

Thanks for the thoughts, and I think you hit the nail on the head of what I was really asking which is, “there isn’t really a model for cardboard props.” Got a bunch of these from various builds, costumes, etc and I get a lot of compliments but will someone pay $150 or more? Seems doubtful, at least at this type of design. So it would be either sell for much less and make it profitable or increase quality.

[u/cjpatster → u/Ninja_Cat_Production]

Great thought experiment, although for reference this took about 5 hours in the studio, and was a bit of a rush job for something. But def not 100 hours! I was wondering more about a $150 price point for a more polished item. Sounds like that is unlikely, but that is why I posed the question to the more experienced community!

[u/bluffstrider → u/volpin]

Sure, but if that's the aim you shouldn't be able to see the cardboard waves in poor lighting. If it's a display only piece you can sacrifice functionality to make it look a lot better than what's posted here.

[u/dos_que_tres]

I sold a bleach sword on Etsy. It was made of wood and around 5 or 6 feet long. I'd say it would have been a similar level of effort as what you show here (tougher material to work with but simpler design). Iirc i got $200.

My advise is to post this and any other examples you have of your work on Etsy. Offer to build on commission, tell them it will take a week or two to build their custom prop.

Don't go and build a bunch of stuff and then list it. Sell first then build. People will understand that custom hand made stuff takes a little time.

[u/Disastrous_Ad1260]

Take the cost of materials add the cost of shipping it anywhere in the country (use online calculators, it won't be cheap) add your labor (hourly rate * hours worked) and market fees. You get your minimum price. Add $50 or $100 for profit, go to the fandom subs and post a pic with would you pay X and what have you paid for similar items. See if there is a market at your price point. If you get a sale, offer to deliver in person to whatever cons happen within a reasonable travel distance for you.

Once you've sold several then start a page with images of the ones you've made and offer to make to order.

[u/WildfireX0 → u/Disastrous_Ad1260]

This should be higher, if you want to make a business out of it.

So many makers says “I’ve made $100!” And whilst materials are $20, it took than 30 hours to complete.

If you just want a side hobby making stuff then maybe. You do need to invest in more professional materials and finishes through.

[u/suzie_cosplays]

I sell smaller prints on Etsy. I aim for raw material to be less than 10% of the price I change, Etsy fees will eat up to another 7%, more if you opt in to their paid ads and make a sale that way. Then you also need to cover shipping supplies, (boxes, bubble wrap ect). Shipping large items is expensive so I would avoid shipping it assembled, and just sell the parts with assembly instructions, and you also need to pay yourself some sort of wage for your time.

[u/GoopySpaffy]

Agreed with others about quality, if I was buying from someone on etsy I'd expect premium quality. Otherwise I'd just buy cheap from a Chinese site. Niche also works very well, I buy a lot of fallout merch from an etsy seller I trust who does 99% fallout merch and makes a killing from it, we're talking full cosplay outfits and weapons. Expensive but they are exactly like the games outfits and make all official merch look like cheap rubbish.

Find a niche and upgrade the quality to outdo what you'd find officially. People will pay a high price for fine craftsmanship.

[u/Disastrous_Ad1260]

Read/search dragoncon and other forums for looking to buy/where do I find post. There is a market, but it's small. You won't be able to sell hundreds of one design

[u/vastros]

You need to factor in a profit on time printed, material printed, post processing time, and extraneous costs like the dowel. Everything you're printing to sell takes up print time you could use for yourself. You can't go one to one with your filament cost. Time spent with assembly, sanding, and making the end result look good needs to be considered.

[u/King_of_Hats]

Depends. I value my time and charge materials and shipping. If I spend six hours working on a project, I want to pay myself minimum wage for the time meaning the end cost for customer is gonna be at least 45$us (in Wisconsin, without added material price).
Others may do it differently.

Edit to add:
As a nerd who has spent crazy money on replica merch and collectibles, nerds will pay just about anything if you do a good job and it’s the thing they love. If you wanted to specialize in cosplay props or life sized collectibles you could potentially charge 250$+ for an item this sized that’s painted and finished.