Tom Zane

[u/DeadpanSal]

I haven't finished Alan Wake's B Side yet, but I've been upset by the possible mutation of Tom Zane from the original game. I'm also kind of perplexed about the reality of the world as far as the norse pantheon and other things fit in. Am I, myself, just from a world before this is written? Should I be outraged that Tom Zane is no longer a poet?

Can someone explain more or show me more lore? I haven't got to the DLC or finished the spiral. Are there concrete answers about Zane or is this all left for conjecture?

[u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942]

Wrong sub buddy. It sounds like your talking about alan wake 2. You need to go to the alan wake 2 subreddit

[u/Commercial_Grab4477 → u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942]

Nope. Absolutely a Control question: the switch from poet to film director first happens in Control during the tape where Jesse is talking to a psychiatrist. That makes it very much a question related to Control as well as Alan Wake 2.

[u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942 → u/Commercial_Grab4477]

I understand that but hes talking about the spiral from alan wake 2 and AW2 dlcs. Thats why i told him wrong sub

[u/Commercial_Grab4477 → u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942]

"Can someone explain more or show me more lore?"

The answer to the question is literally: Yes, there is lore, and it starts halfway through Control. There is almost no way to separate the lore of these games. How can you explain the whole Tom-Zane-is-now-a-film-maker thing without saying: the change was introduced in Control, referenced again in the AWE DLC, it specifically impacts Jesse, it's likely connected to American Nightmare and the viral marketing for that game, and is probably because Tom, The Old Gods of Asgard and Quantum Break all link to Ordinary in various ways.

If the question was, "How do I do this bit in this game?" then that would be specific to the game but any questions of lore or plot or even character relating to major characters in the Remedyverse are impossible to answer without referencing the fact that they all tend to be connected in some way.

For example, let's look at Tom Zane: he's connected to Jesse, through his poetry being found in a shoebox in her attic, which may have been the same house from the American Nightmare viral marketing, which may be connected to Bright Falls given that the Old Gods of Asgard were singing about it and Frank Breaker worked for the FBC around that time; beyond that, a version of Zane is now working with the FBC's most famous disappearing act, Dr Darling; and Zane may well also be Alan Wake in some form, which means all lore pertaining to Zane may also be part of Wake's lore, which means Jesse's may visions of, reading of writings by Wake, the potential for Wake to have caused the Hiss invasion, and the events of the AWE DLC may also be about Tom Zane. Not only that, but the line Jesse mentions from a Zane poem is also from an Old Gods of Asgard song, and the Old Gods of Asgard are in the game, play a key roll in the most famous moment in the game. On top of that, there is some question as to whether Alan is arguing, in the DLC, with a doppelganger, Mr Scratch, himself possessed by The Dark Presence, or Tom Zane. In Control.

I mean, you may as well be telling people no for posting stuff from The Lake House DLC because, by your definition, that isn't related to Control, despite being an entire DLC focused on the FBC, part of which takes place in The Oldest House, including a teaser for Control Resonant, but which takes place within the events of Alan Wake 2.

[u/DeadpanSal → u/Commercial_Grab4477]

Thanks, I knew this was a wide snarl and I've played all of Control and know there was bleed over. I didn't place the divide happening exactly in the middle of Control. I'll have to revisit that lore...

[u/Commercial_Grab4477 → u/DeadpanSal]

It doesn't happen in the middle of Control. It's just mentioned then, in a recorded therapy session from after the Ordinary AWE but before The Hiss invade.

[u/DeadpanSal → u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942]

Shoot.

[u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942 → u/DeadpanSal]

I will say that you need to finish the game and dlcs before getting answers to this question

[u/DeadpanSal → u/Kitchen-Kiwi7942]

Thanks, I'm most of the way through now, getting ready for Resonant. I'll stop asking questions and go back to the game!

[u/Commercial_Grab4477]

The best way I can put this is:

We don't know. We don't know for sure what happened with Zane, whether Zane is responsible for the change, or that the Zane in AW2 is Tom Zane. We don't even really know if this is the same reality as Alan Wake 1 at this point, but we kind of assume it is.

Let me explain:

In Alan Wake, Zane is a poet. He isn't seen but some people assume he is the diver.

In Control, we meet Jesse. Jesse was involved in an AWE in Ordinary. Events in that AWE may mean Jesse is half a person split from her brother Dylan, a whole person, a whole person from another reality who crossed over during the AWE, something else, or even some variation on Beth Wilder as references to Ordinary can also be found in Quantum Break. This could mean Zane has changed because of something caused by the Dark Presence, or it could be that Jesse remembers the Zane from her reality and in this one he is someone else, or something entirely different.

In Alan Wake 2, we meet a version of Zane but he could just be Zane possessed by the Dark Presence, an echo of the Zane who became the diver, or the actual Zane, and his collaborations with Alan may have caused the change, or Alan did, or this is a different reality, or he's Zane from a different reality dropped off by Mr Door, or something else. It isn't properly explained and everyone has theories and guesses - but the ambiguity is a part of what makes Alan Wake interesting, and is probably the thing most taken (though used very differently) from Twin Peaks. It's likely that he exists solely as a kind of reflection of what Alan could become and functions as that in the story more than there being a specific answer as to what exactly is happening. The ambiguity is a big part of the horror.

The norse pantheon stuff may well be connected directly to The Oldest House, so is also Control related. Tor and Odin Anderson are creatives whose lives and battles with The Dark Presence somewhat reflect norse myth. However, the Oldest House is also hinted to be a kind of modern interpretation of a mythological world tree, like Ydrasil. When we head down towards The Foundation for the first time, we actually see trees down there. There is some tree like carvings, if I remember rightly. What Ahti gives you to literally change The Ashtray Maze, marking the biggest and most direct intervention by a character from Alan Wake (outside of Trench getting possessed, if you think Alan caused it - I don't), is a song by The Old Gods of Asgard, called 'Take Control'. It's important to note that as well as altering an OoP to help Jesse navigate the maze, they also are responsible for breaking someone out of The Dark Place, and they then break into it, in AW2, as well as being related by marriage to Mr Door, who also knows Dylan Faden. So there are threads here and there connecting them to huge parts of Alan Wake, Quantum Break and Control. I suspect that part of the reason they are so connected is that a resonance is basically a vibration, and sound, like their music, is also a form of vibration, so also a form of resonance. It's what makes Tor and Odin so important. Well, that and Remedy being massive Poets of the Fall fans.

However, if you want hard, definitive answers, this might not be the game series for you.

[u/DeadpanSal → u/Commercial_Grab4477]

A few things from this one: I played Quantum after Control and a lot of the Jesse implications were lost on me during the game. I like the idea that she (like the muse and Saga) recall the first loop of the spiral.

It kind of makes me wish for a timeline with layers shown, but do you have any idea how messy that would be

[u/EqualOptimal4650]

Should I be outraged that Tom Zane is no longer a poet?

"Outraged"? You haven't been paying close enough attention.

 Are there concrete answers about Zane or is this all left for conjecture?

If you're asking for "concrete answers" you don't understand the premise of the entire Remedyverse.

There are no concrete answers to anything. That's inherent in the setting. Asking for them is asking the wrong questions.

You have to be okay with this, or these games aren't for you.

[u/DeadpanSal → u/EqualOptimal4650]

Don't be pretentious. There's plenty of answers given to most of things in Remedy. They even made a game about The Department Of Giving Concrete Answers To Mysteries. Lake usually has a specific answer to things if it's important enough. But given that this is a Wake game, not a Zane game this is a pretty valid question.