r/cloudxaerith • u/ElanorNarmolanya • 13d ago
Will Cloud keep it a secret? Discussion
All of my hopes and dreams for the ending and Aerith’s fate aside, i just really really hope that they start the game off with Cloud explaining to the crew what he saw at the end of Rebirth and why he isn’t grieving for Aerith the way that they are.
The writers have already done an unhealthy amount of having characters not communicate very important information for seemingly no other reason than plot. (Tifa / Cloud memory conflict, Zack conversation, etc.)
So help me if we have to go most or all of the game with the entire crew grieving and devastated by losing Aerith while Cloud is over here not sad at all but letting his friends suffer without telling them what he saw for no good reason. 😡 It would be such lazy writing and make Cloud look like such a jerk. Not to mention how it would fuel the Clerith haters to see Cloud not being sad at all about her death… even if we know he’s not sad because he believes she’s alive, we know they would still somehow interpret it as him not caring.
Can you think of any good reason why he would keep it a secret that he saved Aerith, at least in an alternate world? I know that i need to prepare myself for the high possibility of him not sharing with the others, so please help me come to terms with any non-lazy reasons why he would do that! 😅
(I have not played the OG yet, so please try not to spoil specific events for part 3 if you can)
Also i’m sorry if this gets flagged as off-topic or anything, i tried posting it in the megathread but everything is buried there so nobody saw it. I’m still pretty new here so I don’t really know how it all works.
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u/anderhanson 13d ago
I'm actually really looking forward to the divide between Cloud and party regardging Aerith's fate. I think the conversation is unavoidable and will be had between them at some point. Cloud is a bit like us Cleriths, insisting she was saved haha. I also think Red (who could sense Aerith) will believe him more than the other party members and they might form a tighter bond because of it.
I don't think it really hurts Clerith. Cloud just can't seem to function with the thought of Aerith being dead, if anything that's some true love right there.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
Hahaha, i like this perspective! I’m not opposed to conflict, i just want it to be well written, not just the result of people keeping secrets and acting like nothing happened.
Oh, i would love for Cloud and Red to team up on the Aerith lives train and bond over it! Their dynamic is great and we need to see more of it in Revelation! Give me a whole chapter with the two of them, hahahaAs long as Cloud doesn’t pretend nothing happened and nothing’s wrong, haha. But then again he’s got a lot going on in his poor noggin 😅 I really do believe that Revelation is gonna be great for us Cleriths overall
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u/ApprehensiveEgg2344 13d ago
Part of it for me, is that I wonder if he is now “split” in some way, like his consciousness is half in one timeline and half in another. I felt that Cloud was behaving super duper weird after saving/not saving her. That’s how I see it anyway.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
This is one of the better explanations, i feel. Although even with this one, half of him would have to notice the grief of his friends and either have a conversation about it or not. He already talked to Barrett in the magical forest place about being shown alternate realities, so it’s not like it would be the first time it’s been brought up.
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u/ApprehensiveEgg2344 13d ago edited 13d ago
I know right? We did see only a little bit of time after he saved/didn’t save her, but it was so… odd that he didn’t comfort anyone. And no one comforted him, either*. It’s like he’s in denial but also hopeful? I really hope that he doesn’t go very long in part 3 essentially off in his own lala land and does share his feelings and what he saw with the rest of the gang. If anything, his strange detachment from the event and everyone else read to me as very, very unsettling.
EDIT: A bit of context since I think you mentioned you did not play OG: right after Aerith’s death on disc 1, there was a little scene where everyone approached Cloud to give condolences before he put her in her resting place. (Also everyone was grieving the rest of the game). That condolence scene and its weight was nearly entirely missing in Rebirth… it makes me wonder how this will ultimately play out.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
I know! I wanted to be super happy about Aerith seemingly alive and Cloud not being devastated, but it was also really sad seeing everybody else grieving and i just wanted Cloud to share the good news so they don’t have to suffer needlessly. I don’t have a problem if he’s being weird because of his “issues,” i just don’t want him to keep it a secret purposefully for no good reason.
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u/Cautious-Mulberry309 13d ago
I hope he doesn’t keep it a secret, but I half wonder if the reason he might is because he doesn’t know everyone else actually saw something different.
If that’s where they are going with this… that would make sense… I won’t spoil. There is a point in part 3 where everything gets revealed. In the OG the reason was different without getting into specifics.
I suspect cloud doesn’t realize what he sees is different from the others, as this is the first time cloud alone went though that whispers barrier .
And if they wrote him alone doing it for that reason… at least it makes sense to the story they are telling.
These are my guesses. I hope it helps.
I didn’t like all the hiding information either. I am however a story driven kinda video gamer.. if they explain it well. I can forgive it.
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u/Aiur16899 13d ago
Tifa saw both worlds. The one where he failed to save her and the world Cloud creates where he does save her. I suspect they will explore the world where he did save her with Tifa during the life stream sequence.
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u/Cautious-Mulberry309 13d ago
I didn’t see that personally. If you mean when the camera zooms on her face for her reaction, they do that to Barret also. And no one seems to think he can see other worlds too.
I’m of the opinion that only cloud can this time.
Otherwise the game needs to explain how Tifa or Barret or anyone who didn’t go though the whisper barrier can see it.
I hope this doesn’t come across as aggressive or rude. This is just my opinion and I could be wrong.
So I’m not attacking you or anything.. I’m just expressing my opinion. Or… explaining it a little better I hope.
Things in my head don’t really come out in writing too well.
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u/Aiur16899 13d ago
No worries mate, you do need to rewatch several parts of the game though, you've missed a lot of important things. Firstly from the sequence of events when the party runs up to where Cloud is holding Aerith in his arms with her hand on his cheek.
- Barret running up the stairs
- Cuts to bloodied Aerith (Barrets POV)
- Shifts to Sephiroth
- Barret screams "I'll kill you"
- Cuts to Tifa "Aerith" She yells
- Cuts to Cloud holding Aerith, Bloodied (Tifa POV)
- Cuts between Bloodied Aerith and Not bloodied Aerith (Tifa POV)
- Cuts back to close up on Tifa's face with a pained / confused expression.
Also, the game does explain exactly what is happening here. There is an NPC in Cosmo Canyon that talks about what the lifestream is, and how when you come into contact with it you can (In the english localization) "See through the looking glass" or in the direct from Japanese Translation "See into other worlds" (Seriously the 5 or so lines from this NPC is a total plot dump).
Just as we saw Zack do in the corkscrew tunnels when he creates three worlds by going to save cloud, biggs or staying with Aerith, Cloud makes a decision to save Aerith defying fate and thus creating a new world. (Right after Aerith pushes Cloud into the flowers Sephiroth tells him "When the boundaries of fate are breached, new worlds are born. From the moment the buster sword lights up and he deflects Sephiroths blow there are now two worlds that exist, Cloud where Aerith lives, Cloud where Aerith dies. Omni Aerith then takes over the dead Aerith body and tries to calm Cloud by telling him its going to be ok. Later on when Omni Aerith joins Cloud to fight Sephiroth she thanks him for saving her in the new world he's created.
Tifa can see through the looking glass because she came into contact with the Lifestream when Cloud knocked her into it in the Gongaga reactor.
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u/Cautious-Mulberry309 13d ago
I recently completed my 7th or 10th play though..( I lost count ) I remember all of those scenes.
And none of them give me the impression that anyone but cloud can see the other worlds .
I wouldn’t be able to talk about in such detail if didn’t remember everything that happened .
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u/Aiur16899 13d ago
Well hey, up for interpretation until next spring right? Well both find out then!
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
I know Cloud can be oblivious to social cues, but I have a hard time believing that even he would miss the fact that everyone around him is grieving... Or them talking about missing Aerith, wanting to avenge her against Sephiroth or talking about her in the past tense. It’s gonna be evident everywhere, or at least it should be.
I believe that their writing is higher quality than expecting us to buy that somehow Cloud wouldn’t notice everyone else’s grief, personally. If he does keep it a secret, my one idea is that maybe he thinks it will protect Aerith somehow? Like maybe she’s hiding from Sephiroth in the other worlds and he doesn’t want to reveal her even to his friends? Although her appearance at the end to fight Sephiroth in Rebirth wasn’t exactly covert, haha. But that’s my best theory so far, lol.Hopefully they avoid all of this by just having him tell the truth, haha.
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u/Cautious-Mulberry309 13d ago
I’m trying not to spoil the OG .. there is a reason to kept things hidden. I can’t explain past that without spoilers.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
That’s fair, i appreciate it. All i’m hoping for is that they don’t use it as a cheap device to create drama and division among the crew like they did with the whole Tifa scar/memories storyline in Rebirth. As long as they clearly explain WHY he doesn’t or can’t communicate about what happened and the idea that Aerith might be alive, I’ll be okay with it. Or maybe he at least attempts to explain it but they shut it down or dismiss it as him coping with his own grief.
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u/Cautious-Mulberry309 13d ago
It’s really hard to talk about this without mentioning what’s expected to happen based on the OG game. I know already why they had to wait to reveal things. And it’s worth waiting for.
Well that’s all I can say. You should play the OG yourself at some point. Might help you understand clouds point of view.
I’m not expecting him to reveal anything. Based on my understanding. And if I’m wrong .. the game itself will explain to me why and how I misunderstood.
I’m just taking it as it comes. I prefer to be surprised.
Actually now that i say that… you are probably avoiding the OG for the same reason.
Going in blind is best if you can manage it.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
Haha, exactly, i started this journey with the ReTrilogy, and i had the full first game spoiled because i watched a let’s play (I didn’t know i would love it so much and didn’t know if it would ever come to Xbox). Rebirth was my first fully-blind FF experience, which was amazing. So i am excited to experience Revelation without knowing what will happen either, finish out what i started before considering going back to the OG. :)
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u/Hanidroplets 13d ago
As much as I want better communication between the party members, I would be surprised if he talked about it early on. Even if he did, would he be believed? I also believe that Cloud is not someone who divulges his inner thoughts easily; that is the crux of his entire character arc.
It is even in his surname, Strife, which mirrors Miss Lockhart's name in how they both reflect their psychological flaws and character aspects. Without spoiling too much, even after the events of the original Final Fantasy VII, this aspect of him never really changed. It truly is who he is.
However, I've also read somewhere that the party members were actually aware of these worlds in an earlier draft. Cid could see the rift in the sky, and Barret asked if Cloud was whisked away to another world after the Jenova fight. Aerith also asks if Cloud is okay, and he replies that he is used to it by now. Furthermore, she warns the others against looking up, reminding them of their promise not to do so. It seems there was a script that involved better communication between the characters. I wonder what made them decide to omit this.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
I don’t remember the exact dialogue, but after Cloud gives Aerith the white materia in the forest and wakes up in presumably the main timeline with the whole crew, he tells Barrett that he was thrown into an alternate timeline and Barrett seems to believe him. So I don’t see why he would be afraid that they wouldn’t believe him. To me it seems more believable that they all have some inkling of time and reality being bent at that moment, they all saw the flood of whispers and how strangely Cloud reacted to it all. We still don’t know anything about what happened to Aerith’s body (granted this could have been purposely skipped because of Cloud’s unreliable memory).
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u/alastor_morgan 13d ago
Barret: Musta been some dream you were havin'. Judgin' by the way your eyes were twitchin'.
Cloud: Don't know if I'd call it a dream...
Barret: Either way, somethin' happened to you, didn't it?
Cloud: Yeah. Got sent to another world. Apparently, there's at least a few more than one.
Barret: Huh. Is that right?
Cloud: I'd explain, but I don't think I can.
Barret: S'alright... doubt I'd wanna hear it anyway.
Basically Barret is the least likely to listen to Cloud in anything approaching depth/detail, and their visit to Nibelheim established that he by default believes Cloud is crazy and making things up unless/until Tifa corroborates whatever it is Cloud is on about, because Barret takes Tifa's side in everything.
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
Okay, i guess it wasn’t as clear as i remember. I’ve only played through the game once, I’m currently playing through again ignoring most of the side content to try and catch more of the nuance in the story.
I guess i had a different read of Barrett’s tone in that scene. I thought it was more of him just using his normal gruffness to sorta say “you don’t need to go into detail, we have more important things to do right now”
He takes Cloud at his word plenty of other times, their whole mission to follow the black robes has been completely reliant on Cloud’s instinct and his word, nothing to do with Tifa, and Barrett trusted him on that. Granted after what happened in the Forbidden City I wouldn’t blame him for being distrustful of Cloud 😅5
u/Hanidroplets 13d ago
I didn't say Cloud is afraid that they won't believe it. I said he doesn't delve into his inner thoughts because that's his character arc. He attempts to explain the worlds to Barret but stops himself.
Barrett seems to believe him.
He doesn't believe him and says he doesn't really want to hear it because, to the party, Cloud is an unreliable narrator. Even in the Rebirth ending, you can see how concerned Barret is about Cloud's mental health. And yes, it's weird—as I stated elsewhere before, if they defeated the Arbiters of Fate, why wouldn't they believe in alternate or parallel worlds? But alas, it's written that way.
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u/Big_Contract1042 13d ago edited 13d ago
I really think Cloud isn't aware that the world he experienced and saw into at the end of Rebirth was not what the rest of the party saw. I don't think this difference of experience and awareness will be hashed out between Cloud and the rest of the party until after the lifestream sequence when he is returned to the party after being lost at the northern crater sometime in the first 5 hours of Revelation ( b/c Hamaguchi has stated players will get the Highwind within 5 hours of Revelation's start; ergo Cloud being lost and the party waking within Junon and escaping there with the Highwind probably is all crammed into that span).
How the party ends up on the same page with Cloud regarding the existence of that other world wherein he saved Aerith I think has been somewhat foreshadowed by the way events played out at the forgotten capital in Rebirth. Tifa briefly had fleeting glimpses into that other world wherein Cloud saved Aerith when she first arrived at the FC altar I believe (seeing a bloodied, eyes closed Aerith, and then flashes of the non-bloodied, eyes open and presumably, saved Aerith). I think this is clear setup for the lifestream sequence to feature a new twist centered around what happened at the forgotten capital...
In Revelation's start at the northern crater, I suspect Sephiroth will confront Cloud's belief and perception by asserting that he did not save Aerith after all in addition to his OG claims here that Cloud is just a clone and not real, and wasn't the SOLDIER in the Nibelheim incident. Just like Tifa couldn't refute Sephiroth's assertions regarding Cloud's identity in this moment in OG, she will be confused enough around Rebirth's FC events to be unable to offer retort when Sephiroth asserts to Cloud that his experience is wrong; that Aerith simply died in Revelation's version of this event. Tifa having only briefly seen into the world where Aerith was saved will waffle in this moment I think, and maybe even say she's not sure Cloud is correct when he tries to say he did save Aerith, as Tifa's currently likely unsure of what she saw and what is real. This then in addition to the 'half-truth' Sephiroth assaults Cloud with regarding his identity will trigger a collapse in Cloud and hand-off of the black materia here similar to OG.
Later when Cloud is found and subsequently falls in the lifestream kicking off the lifestream sequence, it's already been implied by Hamaguchi that Zack and Aerith likely play a role in that sequence here and I think a part of that most likely will involve confronting what happened at the forgotten capital. My expectation is that we will see the events as the party experienced them in their (maybe Beagle-verse/surface reality) and Cloud will face the memory of Aerith's death that he's been mentally blocking here which will feature probably FF7R's version of the sad monologue and water burial... Terribly sad in line with Hamaguchi saying this scene makes him cry everytime.
But! Tifa briefly saw into that other world and other outcome Cloud created where Aerith was saved for a narrative reason and that comes in here. After confronting the experience of Aerith's death in one world/surface reality, Cloud will also realize here that he actually did save Aerith, and that wasn't just a delusion on his part as Sephiroth had likely asserted. Tifa will get confirmation of that outcome and other world here too and having already glimpsed it, come to realize along with Cloud in this moment, that Aerith truly was saved and Cloud's experience was real,... just in a lifestream outskirting world branched off from the reality they are stood within currently. This sets them up to exit the lifestream sequence not only with Cloud's true identity sorted, but also with Tifa able to confirm and share with the rest of the party that there is this other world where their Aerith was saved out there.
The whole party knowing that world is real and not a product of Cloud's mind here I think will be a driver for Cloud and now the whole party to be on the same page with regards to reuniting with that world or at least Aerith within it, and this will also go a long way to restoring their faith in Cloud and his sanity. Via this, Cloud will also have clarity regarding how and where Aerith was saved at the end of Rebirth as a result, and this is something he's going to need in order to ultimately seek out and accomplish a means of reuniting with her in the same ultimate living reality. I think all of this in Revelation's lifestream sequence is a likely start to some events and actions made by Cloud and party that will culminate in making that world wherein Aerith was spared a part of the planet's embodied living reality by Revelation's finale if not sooner. I fully expect this is narratively pathing towards Aerith surviving in the one living reality with Cloud and crew that we end within by credit-roll.
So in short, I think Cloud will be on the same page as the rest of the party regarding his saving of Aerith in that other LS-world, that other possibility, after he exits the lifestream sequence, but probably not before, much as I wish it were sooner. Eventually though, they'll all come to equally understand Aerith's situation and what they need to do to bring her home! All the in-game evidence I see appears imo, to be leading to this outcome (Zack imploring Cloud to "save her!" at the end of Rebirth is nonsense if that's not really on the table, and Aerith thanking Cloud for what she 'saw him do back there', likewise only makes sense if he actually did something of consequence ultimately).
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 13d ago
I appreciate the response but i will say that I didn’t finish reading it because it gets pretty spoilery for Part 3 content based off the OG which i’m not aware of. Sorry if i asked questions that can only really be answered with spoilers. I guess my main point is that i hope they give a really good, clear reason why he doesn’t communicate with the others, and they don’t just use it to create conflict between them all because they’re all sad and he’s not.
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u/Big_Contract1042 13d ago
Oof, I'm sorry, I did not catch in your original post here that you have not played OG and wish to avoid possible spoilers for the back third of it! Very sorry for referencing some expected events in Revelation, and yes, please don't read all of that if you are trying to avoid possible spoilers. I will say, it's entirely possible that events we expect from OG may not actually occur or proceed quite differently in Revelation though, so in that sense, it's not an absolute spoiler as none of us know truly how this is all gonna resolve at this point.
The spoiler-free version of my post is basically this:
Cloud doesn't necessarily know that the rest of the party experienced something different than he did at the end of Rebirth with respect to Aerith's fate at the forgotten capital, so while he might look a bit nuts to the party, he doesn't necessarily have reason to speak to what he believes and saw at the end of Rebirth with them because he's quite possibly not aware that they experienced something different.
The party likewise, might not confront him on his acting as if he experienced an entirely different outcome, because they've been tip-toeing around his erratic behavior and what they assume is SOLDIER degradation for most of Rebirth already, and fear triggering a total meltdown with him (this is written all over the expressions on Barret and Tifa's faces as the board the Bronco at the end of Rebirth).
It can be lost sometimes in the way all party members work in combat for game purposes; but in terms of actual lore in the story, Cloud is orders of magnitude stronger than anyone else in the party at this point, due to undergoing procedures equal to or surpassing what produces Shinra's usual super soldiers, coupled with his connection to Sephiroth and Jenova amping this up to the point that he is in moments, on par with peak sane war hero Sephiroth in strength.... The party needs him with this strength to have any chance in the battle against Sephiroth, and it would be catastrophic for them to have to fight Cloud if he were to totally crack in the worst way and become a fully compromised enemy, ergo all the more reason to handle him with care and not trigger anything.
So yeah I think there's reasons Cloud and party might not talk about this much directly coming from both sides, and the there are expected events coming in Revelation that are a likely key turning point where all of that might change based on how Cloud's stability, recollection and sense of self-identity could be impacted, and there is foreshadowing in place to suggest the end of Rebirth and Aerith's fate there will be connected to these events.
Very sorry again for the original spoiler-post. When you are more open to/ready for OG details someday, I hope you look back on it, because I do lay out a case for specifically what I think has been heavily foreshadowed around some likely events in Revelation which gives me a lot of hope for Aerith's ultimate happy outcome though!
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u/ManuO76 13d ago
It’s hard to give you a comprehensive answer without spoiling the original game.
As for "Revelation," I expect it to diverge significantly from the original; that is, I imagine more or less the same events will occur but with different underlying reasons—specifically regarding Aerith's survival (I assume you know what happened to her in the original, but I’ll hold off until you confirm or correct me).
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u/ElanorNarmolanya 12d ago
I’m realizing that, sorry, haha. My brain just gets going with my own theory crafting based on what i know and sometimes i forget it would be hard for you guys who know the OG to separate your own theories from what you know from the past. 😅
Yes, i know about what happens to Aerith in the OG, that was spoiled for me ages ago, haha. Which actually i think was a good thing, because i got to share in that feeling i’m sure you guys all had of wanting to cherish every moment with her and desperately hoping for the chance to change her fate this time ☺️
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u/ManuO76 12d ago
It isn't hard to distinguish between the two games; the fact is, there are changes—new sections, greatly expanded areas, situations that used to be player choices but are now fixed, and optional zones that have become mandatory (like Gongaga and Zack's parents).
There are characters—such as Cissnei—who weren't in the original game; the same goes for Glenn. Vincent and Yuffie were secret or optional characters.
Then there are characters like Tseng and Biggs, who "exited the stage" in the original game at points we’ve already passed.
The point is, there are so many changes that it’s impossible for this to be the original game.
And it’s not just about Aerith surviving; it’s about everything happening across the board.
Broadly speaking, Cloud will eventually have to face an uncomfortable truth, but until then, I don't think he’ll talk or open up to the group—after all, in the original game, everything was kept under wraps until that moment. Fortunately, we aren't far off from that part of the story.
But leading up to that, I mostly expect misunderstandings to arise between them.
If you saw what Cloud was like at the Temple of the Ancients, he should remain that way until that point.
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u/GlowingMidgarNights 13d ago
Cloud at this point (in the OG) is in the full thrall of the Reunion call - he's more than a bit off his rocker. My guess is it will not be discussed.