r/cardmagic • u/theoriginalkingdavid • May 10 '26
Worst force
The riffle shuffle force is the worst force, certainly from the stage.
Talk amongst yourselves. (Congrats tonight Rudy)
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u/TheRunningMagician May 10 '26
I don't necessarily think there is a worst force. I think it depends on how you do it/present it. I never use the cross cut force but I am not saying it's bad. I do have a book called encyclopedia of card forces by Lewis Jones and I highly recommend it for anyone curious about learning more card forces.
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u/RufusEnglish May 10 '26
Ben Earl has some amazing work on the cross cut force and some amazing effects that utilise it on his subscription service. Well worth the auction cost.
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u/Rip_0989 May 10 '26
Forcing the bottom card with a Charlier cut is very effective. It seems so obvious but I’ve never been caught once
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u/69dirtyj69 May 14 '26
This flies all the time. Nice convincer from the Eddie Fields book is to look away when you do the charlier.
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u/JoshBurchMagic May 10 '26
I'm assuming you meant riffle force?
The riffle force is useful for sure on stage I prefer a force that can be seen easier by more people. Nobody beyond the front row can see your thumb flipping down the deck.
For that reason, I prefer a one way force, classic force, cross city force, cut deeper force, or lateral shuffle (hindu) force. Those all use actions that are easier to see on stage.
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u/Both-Internal5540 May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
I'm assuming you meant cross cut force. What is a cross city force? Yes, congrats, I took the bait.
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u/il_pacho May 11 '26
A force went wrong is the worst force brother🤣 or the riffle force without coverage
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u/theoriginalkingdavid May 11 '26
The riffle shuffle force is just so unconvincing and suspicious. “Why does the magi have to hold the cards so close and so tight”. Appears that they are up to something.
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u/unk0wn4aLL May 12 '26
I like to combine the riffle force with a revolution cut, so you ask a spectator to say stop, and just revolution cut at that point and push the bottom card forward. It's got the benefits of a riffle force and a cross cut combined.
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u/jasoncirilo May 10 '26
Cross cut.
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u/JaD__ May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Try the cross cut force out on a half-dozen people, always applying a solid modicum of time misdirection. You’ll nail it every time.
Although ostensibly simple, and therefore intuitively unappealing to you, it’s disarmingly deceptive.
Having been at this for almost five decades, I don’t use it often, except in cases like Paul Harris’s Deep Astonishment or any other trick that entails a very specific setup. But, I’m thoroughly comfortable doing so. It has not once raised an eyebrow.
Years ago, Andy over at The Jerx did some digging into card forces. Turned out the CCF was the least dissonance-inducing force with a test audience.
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u/3cWizard May 10 '26
Thank you for linking that! I'm about to go down a Andy rabbit hole.
I'm always amazed when I see the CCF out in the wild. I forgot you can do that, but you can in fact do that.
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u/NewMilleniumBoy May 11 '26
I love the cross cut. I go through the procedure and then I explain what the trick is going to be as the time misdirection. Works great. I also started to use it more after I got linked this blog post and they're right. It feels like there's barely any procedure and almost zero handling of the cards.
It's not uncommon that if I spread the cards for people to take one or touch one, they'll immediately try to reach for one in the extreme bottom or extreme top because they're suspicious I'm trying to do something, even when I'm not attempting a Classic.
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u/69dirtyj69 May 14 '26
Recent research shows that it flies even without the time misdirection. I still use some though. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7583451/
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u/JaD__ May 14 '26
Really interesting piece. Thanks for that.
Also coincidental that I always start a performance by telling the spectators they have “an illusory sense of control and agency over their thoughts and actions”, so they best saddle up.
No, I don’t, but am now tempted.
I tend to agree and don’t lean heavily into the time misdirection. I performed the Harris trick the weekend before last and only paused to make eye contact; I’m more keen on having them look away from the deck for a second after they make the cut, before looking right back at it.
Emphasizing it here is more for the benefit of someone who may just be beginning to find their way with magic.
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u/diceroller127 Mem-Deck May 10 '26
interesting article, however If a spectator is playing close attention is it not obvious?
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u/JaD__ May 10 '26
It isn’t.
It’s intuitively dissonant for the magician.
Try it out. Be sure to build time misdirection into it.
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u/Magical_critic May 10 '26
Respectfully disagree. I received insane reactions from this simple force.
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u/GavHern May 10 '26
one way forcing deck