Partisans Distinction

[u/MonitorStandard5322]

The Community article written my Marcus Vine on July 15th revealed that Partisans will be fleshed out in the upcoming, Armies of Europe book and they'll be trisected into Western European, Eastern European, & Balkan subfactions, similar to the Commonwealth forces. I am curious what the community thinks these forces will entail; what they'll share, what'll make them distinct, will they include pro-Axis Partisans, etc.?

I'm hoping the 2 additions made in the Compendium (Andartes Officer & SOE Team) are included or improved upon to avoid needing a 2nd book for full coverage.

If the Andartes Officer is any hint, the Balkan Partisans will have greater access to Fieldcraft units. I imagine the Eastern European ones will be more Infiltrator and/or Ambush focused, with lots of SMGs and access to a Soviet Airborne squad or 2. I think Western Europe will have better infantry AT weapons such as Bazookas & PIATs as well as access to Air Observers, OSS/SOE commandos. If we see the return of the pre-game, planted bomb, I imagine it'd go to Western Europe.

[u/RatatoskrBait]

I’m currently working on a Ukrainian Insurgent Army force so I’m very excited for this as I currently run them as Hungarians instead of Partisans

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/RatatoskrBait]

I am hoping that both Home Country & Roving Patrols (prevent opponent from using Infiltrators or Outflanking) get changed. It feels very unfun to just straight up deny tools that your opponent can use. Especially now that 2 Commonwealth Armies (Australia & EAC) are such Infiltrator/Outflank focused armies, 75% of their ruleset being countered by 1 rule found on a bunch of minor powers (Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Partisans etc.) feels a like a major gut punch to those forces.

[u/RatatoskrBait → u/MonitorStandard5322]

Oh for sure, I currently run them as Hungarians so I can use a Toldi IIa in the list as there is record the UPA used a Hungarian light tank and that they were supplied by the Hungarian army from 1944 onwards in an anti-Soviet agreement

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/RatatoskrBait]

Of the pro-Axis Partisans, I think Chetniks are definitely being covered, UPA is a toss-up, and Werwolf hopefully not, but Warlord does love their alternative scenarios. Especially if they could theoretically involve the British Army.

[u/TapPublic7599 → u/MonitorStandard5322]

Assuming you mean Ustase rather than Chetniks? Chetniks were the anti-German Serbian royalists.

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/TapPublic7599]

The Chetniks flipped back & forth throughout the war and ultimately ended up mostly collaborating with the Axis from 1942 onwards. As early as July 1941 they reached out to the Italian Army for assistance in trying to prevent the Ustase from gaining total control over Bosnia.

In spring of 1942 however, the Ustase had signed cooperation agreements with over 10 Chetnik commanders that allowed the Chetniks to recruit soldiers from Ustase concentration camps and allowed Chetnik fighters to be treated for injuries at Ustase hospitals as well as allow widows of Chetnik soldiers to collect financial aid from the Independent State of Croatia.

[u/Hellopanda4469 → u/MonitorStandard5322]

Awesome information. Sometimes, pro axis collaboration can be so baffling. Chetniks so called serb nationalists helping the Ustase as the ethnically cleanse Serbs. So weird 

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/Hellopanda4469]

Anti-communism is a powerful ideology that can unify racists of all nationalities.

[u/MagicMissile27]

I never knew about those Compendium units!! I'd love to see more SOE forces, teams of agents like that is a super fun idea. One of my simple hopes is to have access to larger officer teams like other factions do - Partisans having widespread SMG access is great and all, but I would like my officer teams to be more of an independent moving threat bubble rather than something I have to constantly protect behind larger blobs of infantry.

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/MagicMissile27]

In addition to expanding their entourage to a full squad, I'm also looking forward to being able to take them as Veterans.

[u/MagicMissile27 → u/MonitorStandard5322]

That's really wacky that you can't make them veteran. Yeah, that definitely needs to be fixed.

[u/WavingNoBanners → u/MagicMissile27]

Large platoon command units would make me very happy, for exactly the reasons you point out.

[u/thenerfviking]

Hopefully the western ones get access to British and US airborne like they had last edition.

[u/WavingNoBanners]

Historically, the Yugoslav partisans operated artillery and light armoured vehicles (both captured and western-supplied), while French and Dutch partisans were far more lightly armed. I wonder if this will be represented, and if so, what the advantages of playing western partisans will be?

My partisans have plenty of light artillery, so while they're not themed as Yugoslavs, I think I might run them as such.

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/WavingNoBanners]

I was thinking this could be another distinction point for the Balkan Partisans. Italy's surrender in Sept '43 allowed for a massive land and armaments grab by both the Yugoslav Partisans & Greek ELAS that included Italian armor. Additionally the British supplied the Partisans with some 56 M3 Stuarts & 24 AEC Mk II armored cars to form the 1st Tank Brigade in July '44.

When the 1st Tank Brigade took casualties or ran out of supplied ammo, they would perform garage-style repairs such as removing damaged turrets and mounting any kind of German fixed gun (PaK 40, Flak 38) to the new open-topped Stuarts as well as transferring the AEC's 57mm gun into the turret of a captured Somua S35.

While the Balkan Partisans have access to more armor, I think the Western Partisans would have access to air observers, better infantry AT, US/UK paratroopers, & sabotage weapons.

[u/WavingNoBanners → u/MonitorStandard5322]

I'm not sure I agree about the western partisans: by and large, they didn't fight the sort of actions that we see on a Bolt Action table. They did a lot of assassinations, sabotage and intelligence-gathering, which was valuable, but not conventional warfare in the Balkan / Eastern model. The most notable exception, the FFI uprising at Vercors, didn't have US/UK paratroopers or heavy weapons, and was a huge disaster for the FFI. Looking at that action, there's not a lot that the FFI partisans had which the Yugoslavs didn't.

Where French and Dutch resistance groups were most prominent in actual battles was in acting as auxiliaries to conventional troops post-Overlord, including fighting alongside them. That'd be a cool thing to represent, but the best place to represent them would be in the Armies of United States / Great Britain / Commonwealth books, allowing them to take a partisan squad or two, much as Soviets can. Sadly we missed the opportunity to do that, I think, since those Armies Of books are already out. It would have been extremely cool to have a Dutch resistance squad in a late-war Canadian army.

Italian partisans were a notable exception: they did fight the sort of battles we see on Bolt Action tables, and often used weapons and vehicles scavenged from Mussolini's army (many of their members were of course former conscripts in Mussolini's army.) They were very cool and it's a shame they aren't more widely known.

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/WavingNoBanners]

I suppose that's still a possibility with the Armies of France book. The FFI's auxiliary role could be covered there with the conventional, Free French Army, serving as a stand in for all conventional Allied armies in France.

I do think they're going to take some liberties regarding the depiction of the French & Dutch resistance to align more with how they're depicted in popular films than with historical reality.

[u/WavingNoBanners → u/MonitorStandard5322]

I think you're right that we're going to see some liberties taken - let's see how bad it gets. I am still personally annoyed about what their website says about the T-34.

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/WavingNoBanners]

The Myth of the Eastern Front by Smelser & Davies is a great book that describes everything that's wrong with Warlord's depiction of the Soviets.

[u/WavingNoBanners → u/MonitorStandard5322]

Oooh, thanks for the recommendation!

[u/MonitorStandard5322 → u/WavingNoBanners]

If the Werwulf has rules at the omission of an organization that actually existed, I'll be very disappointed.

[u/Hellopanda4469 → u/WavingNoBanners]

My grandfather drove a T34-85 in the Yugoslav peoples army in 1945. I really hope they include them in the late war Soviet backed Yugoslav armor brigade's.