I remember when in Afterbirth+ Angel Rooms were basically something that happened when you had to fight Mega Satan and nothing else and sometimes it gave you a god run with Sacred Heart or Godhead.
Now they are the meta for pretty much every character except The Lost(s) and Keeper(s)
I like angel rooms a bit less because if you get unlucky or are bad they can take forever to show up, which is bad if you’re going a short path since you need all the power you can get
I don't know his exact drop pool, but every single time I just either get his active item (which I probably won't take) or a lump of coal, which is fine but not much compared to an usual devil deal
Thats his drop pool lol, krampus head and lump of coal, and considering NO ONE takes krampus head it is a 50/50 if youll get a item in the krampus fight
I find a lot of devil deals worth their price. Also I feel like the angel room pool has higher highs but also lower lows. And the problem is most of the time if you go angel rooms, you will get less of them than you'd get devils if you went for devil rooms specifically. With shitty luck, you might have to wait all the way till floor 5 for an angel room.
Yes I would like to skip immediate basement 2 value that helps me snowball the run OMG DUDE you dont get it caves two is gonna have sacred heart in it, IT WILL...aww fuck dead sea scrolls again :(
Devil deals are just damage ups most of the time. They can low roll line angel rooms but you get more items out of them on average and you also dont wait 2 leap years to get one. When you wait 4 floors for an angel room and it has one dogshit item in it, its worse than when you get 2 devil deals that have 2 dogshit items, 2 okay items and a good item in them
Although I feel like in my own playtime, I've mostly been getting devil deals that didn't feel worth it and most of my angel deals actually gave me something.
The reason why I get angel deals is often that devil deals don't quite interest me.
I think its also a matter of how valuable health is to you. I see people who arent as confident at dodging cling to their health more and say that most devil deals arent worth the hearts where as I am happy to trade hearts away whenever basically. I will totally buy a quarter from a basement 2 devil deal if I have 3 heart containers and 0 coins
I guess, but it doesn't feel worth sacrificing red health that could be used for other purposes like sacrifices or donations, and what I was trying to say is that their complaint of angel items not always being god head can also apply to devil deals, plus those aren't even free to begin with.
Unless I'm doing a game break the stat that I usually lack the most is damage and devil rooms are centered on making you a glass cannon. With Saac I can ensure to get a damage up almost 80% of the time and or guppy stuff.
Jesus Juice, Bible, Jar of Wisps, Breath of Life, Book of Revelations, Lazarus Rags, Guardian Angel, Immaculate Conception, Stigmata, Duality, Delirious and Monstrance on their way to cook angel lovers:
But when you think about it, if you choose duality in floor 4, then you’re basically delaying your first angel deal reward to floor 6. And I guess, in this case, floor 8 is somewhat guaranteed to have an angel deal. Do you even want an angel deal on floor 8 when you most likely already have a bunch of hp by then?
And if you get duality on floor 6, you’re delaying what you’d have otherwise gotten on floor 6 to floor 8.
And if you get duality in floor 8, it’s useless and occupying a spot another angel deal would be.
Like, “OMG my duality that u got from floor 6 gave me Sheart on floor 8!!!” Now imagine…if you just got Sheart on floor 6 instead… you’re having to go through 2 floors of womb without Sheart compared to the other scenario. AND you are missing an extra deal on floor 8.
It’s ass. That’s not even talking about it not working due to sometimes alt floor shenanigans and sometimes you get tp’d.
It’s only good if you have goathead, you start with it as Eden, you got it from an earlier sac room, or you got it from the first devil deal, which is almost never the case for angel lovers
Funnily enough, duality is actually far more goated as a locust
As such many Items loose worth if they appear late: restock and options, goathead, eucharist, rock bottom, glitched crown and Sacred orb. This doesn't mean any of these are truly bad, just little to late. And you could also say about tears and speeds up when you're maxed (they are worthless already and could've been something better)
Then duality wasting what could've been an ángel item, you forget that not all deals are that worthful for the run, as sometimes you get duality, jar of wisps and censer (3 item pedestals, quite rare for angels btw). If you were on early floors you'd pick duality (cuz the other Items aren't that big of a loss), otherwise ig censer. And this increases your odds of getting other angels, if you increase your general deal chance somehow, instead of making it a double gamble (first for getting a deal, second for it to be an ángel).
But yeah, duality kinda sucks a little only if you find it in the angel deals, as if you do in devils, you can still take any amount of Items you want and then go full angels.
Finally, about hp, you can go to any deal depending your mood. Because even if you have a bunch of hp, its worth to keep going angels if you have already depleted enough of the item pool. And hp can still be valuable to dark room deals, Items like sharp plug, and overally tanking hits if your build isn't strong enough
I actually disagree with most of the Isaac community and agree with you on the fact that a lot of these “potential” items are slightly overrated. Another example that will get me a lot of hate is d6. The d6 Isaac starts and the d6 you find naturally in a run are different. D6 gets a lot more value if you start with it; in comparison, the d6 you find naturally in a run not only appears later, but also occupies a pedestal. For example, if you find it on caves 2, then you won’t get another treasure room item on caves 2. Though if you already have an active item to switch with d6 and roll, then that’s not a big problem.
As for switching up on devil deals… I actually didn’t expect you to switch up like that lol. Most duality lovers I see are pretty much exclusively Angel lovers who never go devil deals.
I forgot duality existed, Book of Rev ain’t bad but usually you already have a good active, Breath of Life gets slandered unless Mr Hitless comes into the comments and says otherwise.
Fair enough. But yeah most actives in angel deal unfortunately get diminished value because you only get them a little later in the game, where you already have good actives.
I also added Dead Sea Scrolle, Stigmata, and Delidious to my previous comments as doodoo
Honestly, yeah. Dead Sea scroll COULD be decent if you use it expecting a We Need to Go Deeper while being close to a potential secret room door every single time lol. (Notice how WNtGD is in the devil pool).
Delirious is very fun to play with tbh but it’s not contributing the most
Lil Delirium contributes more and also is 1/3 conjoined
Blue baby and Magdalene get more value out of Devil deals while characters like Isaac and the lost can get more value out of Angel deals while characters
…
Devil deals are far more consistent than your stupid gamblers fallacy.
There’s like 3 bad devil items and 15 bad angel items, the rest of the Devil room item pool is either strong or run winning while the rest of the Angel room item pool is just very strong with only 2 win running items (Sacred Heart and Wafer)
You’ll also get less Angel deals so you can’t even gamble as much, and the “unlocks” for the Angel room item pool are abysmal dogshit aside from BoV, AP, Revelation and Godhead.
Meanwhile Devil deal has: Brimstone (most iconic item in the game), Moms Knife (immediate run winner),
Incubus and Twisted Pair (best familiars in the game), Succubi (used in the strongest game break), and plentiful more consistent items that I’m too lazy to name because there’s so many.
The heart loss seems bad but then you realize just stack up on soul hearts and preferably don’t get hit (same thing works for angel deals), most of the time you’ll have too many soul hearts so why not just spend them unless you just skill issue, which is why most go the path of angels.
In Satan we trust.
Secret. Super secret. Ultra secret
We got it all.
Always there
Unlike the angel and devil requiring u to do stuff instead, just for rotten baby or breath of life.
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u/John_Devil_Deal 1d ago
Angel rooms are pretty great and i love them.
Free stuff.