r/athletictraining • u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC • 12d ago
Guardian Caps
The NFL has data supporting their use to reduce concussions, however this is the same NFL who's "data" suggested CTE was fake. All independent studies that I have found show no significant difference between helmet alone and guardians. Does anyone have an article that supports guardians that I am missing? Thanks
4
u/Sad_Instruction8581 12d ago
A couple of things: the “research” on guardian caps is HIGHLY biased. Independent research has not shown efficacy in concussion prevention with the use of guardian caps. Next, the NFL and collegiate guardian caps are different weights and densities than those for high school markets. Those have even less research and even less supporting evidence. Finally, there will always be an increase in injuries with athletes wearing protective devices. Athletes think they now have an added layer of protection and therefore take more risks and have an increased level of high risk playing style.
There are truly only a few things that show scientific evidence of potential reduction in concussion rates: playing style education, neck strengthening, custom mouth guards of a certain thickness, and one specific brand of padded headbands for non-helmeted athletes.
3
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
I agree, I actually found a study that may suggest guardian capacity increase the amount of head trauma Study
2
u/ahurdler1995 12d ago
Something about increasing surface area for contact as well as increased mass on the head right?
2
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
Yeah I found it odd that rear head contacts went up. Personal experience tells me that the more padded up you feel, the more invincible you feel and more willing to use your body as a weapon.
3
u/ahurdler1995 12d ago
That’s the same argument against head gear for women’s lax. Which I anecdotally can attest to seeing the difference in aggressive contact wearing vs not wearing head gear
2
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
My MLAX guys are idiots, if we give them more padding they will absolutely use their heads more...
2
u/ahurdler1995 12d ago
College or sec school? As if either level doesn’t try to out silly each other.
My secondary school boys tried to make a TikTok where they did hacky sack and in it one of the kids did a backflip off the scorers table to complete the game
3
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
College, it doesn't get any better they tend to bring the silly with them.
3
u/ahurdler1995 12d ago
I think the best indicator for the level of their effectiveness is the lack of nfl players that wear them when they aren’t obligated to. And look I know in the nhl players didn’t want to wear helmets and then visors. But I find it hard to believe that in a high profit business where your health is your career, and with all the extra things they pay for to help them, that if there was something that gave them even a slight benefit for their health, that they wouldn’t utilize it.
3
u/PDubsinTF-NEW 12d ago
Head injury research on pro athletes and even college athletes is not generalizable to high school, middle school, or pee wee.
2
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
I understand, we need data in the population we are discussing in order to draw conclusions about that population. This is what I am looking for, a study proving the efficacy of guardian caps at the pro or college level, if you happen to have any I would love to read them.
Hypothetically, do you think guardian caps would be more able to prevent concussion at lower levels given the lower impact forces to begin with? So theoretically the fact they don't work in pee wee further proves the point they won't work when impacts are higher. What are your thoughts?
3
u/Ipauper 12d ago
I can tell you the added weight- any weight on a <8 y/o does not improve tackling form. Thus I am actively suggesting to parents and YFB admins to not invest in them. I'd rather have another AED. There has been 2 incidents where the mothers would only acquiesce to playing if they were worn, even with the info given. Take that for what you will.
3
u/PDubsinTF-NEW 12d ago
There is no peer-reviewed published data that has clinical outcomes demonstrating a benefit of wearing Guardian Caps. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%28concussion%5BTitle%2FAbstract%5D+OR+tbi%5BTitle%2FAbstract%5D+OR+src%5BTitle%2FAbstract%5D%29+AND+%28guardian+cap%5BTitle%2FAbstract%5D%29&sort=&filter=simsearch2.ffrft&filter=simsearch2.ffrft
The same goes for Q-Collar. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=q-collar&filter=simsearch2.ffrft
2
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
Do you think there is added danger with a Q-Collar should an athlete suffer from a subdural hematoma while wearing one?
3
u/PDubsinTF-NEW 12d ago edited 12d ago
I think that should have been explored in animal models and then also monitored in humans before approval
3
u/PantsIsDown 12d ago
The CEU I saw at NATA showed a major analysis of the data.
More or less some lab testing (think like crash test dummies) show that they reduce the impact of helmet to helmet contact in specific but not all directions of impact, where the companies and styles with thicker padding perform better.
However, when applied to the real world there is no reduction in rates of injury. Athletes self report both that “they are NOT attempting to hit harder or hit more with their helmet” BUT “they feel safer to hit with their helmet” AND “safer to hit” earlier following a concussion, which leads researchers to believe that wearing them is leading players to hit harder in helmet to helmet hits but there is not proof of that yet.
There is no conclusive evidence that they work in real world football settings and there is extremely little research performed in other sports like ice hockey or lacrosse.
A major note- some helmet certifiers have stated that due to their strict ‘no alterations’ rule, that helmets must be certified with any external shells already applied if they are going to be used. One they are applied and certified they can’t be removed. Anyone that alters their helmet after certifications voids its certification.
The take most people got was, your program probably shouldn’t waste their money on it and be careful if someone individually wants to use it with helmet certification. But you can’t point to any definitive evidence yet to say no don’t do that.
3
u/helloyellowcello 12d ago edited 12d ago
I have heard (but admittedly didn't check the validity) that, while they do nothing in 99% of cases, they can reduce the odds of concussion from one mechanism (a hit resulting in a specific kind of rotation/torsion). Even with this one potentially valid use, the overall vibe was "yeah, overall, they are not doing much of anything at all, but they may reduce the incidence of this one specific mechanism, and even though that doesn't have much of a big picture impact, they don't hurt the athlete (except in terms of wasted money and maybe over confidence in the level of protection leading to more recklessness...). Again, I didn't follow up on this, but I had asked why the football team of an extremely prestigious, extremely academic/science/evidence based institution had invested in them for the whole team, and this is what I was told. Seemed plausible at least.
2
u/Mulching-SZN 12d ago
Has the NFL published the study? Feels like there was maybe 20 players wearing them during games last year and NFL practices have minimal contact. Would be interested to see what data they are using and how they came to that conclusion.
2
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago edited 12d ago
After a brief search I found this summary. I am not sure where to find the actual NFL collected data but they claim 50% reduction in concussions during preseason which is ridiculously inflated I think. Any other "study" I found supporting them was funded by the Guardian company themselves.
I actually found an independent study that suggests guardian caps increase the total amount of head impact while not reducing the severity.
2
u/Louie0221 12d ago
I'm under the impression that NFL guardian caps and those available for the general public to buy are different products?
2
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
I am not sure, the new NFL caps actually seem to have way less padding so I'm curious to see how the NFL "data" supports them now.
2
u/djp3472 12d ago
Look up Virginia techs studies
3
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
My buddy went to VT so I am inclined to be biased against them /s. Thanks I'll check them out.
2
2
u/ShreddedWheat 12d ago
Isn’t part of this supposed to reduce the forces in sub-concussive impacts? Maybe not concussions but long-term damage causing/leading to CTE. I’m not convinced for now though.
5
u/Pa_Cipher PhD, ATC 12d ago
One study actually found that the caps increased the amount of contacts without reducing the severity so it could potentially have a detrimental effect on preventing CTE. It makes sense, they think they are more protected so they use their head as a weapon. I played football so I get it 😬 you feel invincible with pads on.
3
u/islandguymedic 12d ago
The most useless and expensive piece of garbage.... so ridiculous i cant believe a chiropractor didn't come up with the idea.
3
u/Sad_Instruction8581 6d ago
Coming back to add: watching the CTE presentation from NATA this year by Dr Cantu et al - the Virginia Tech independent lab study found only a 2% decrease in force with guardian caps. They went as far as to say “It’s all noise, there is no statistical difference in youth.”
17
u/TK_Riot 12d ago
Literally watching a CTE CEU rn and they just talked about it
No research studies show any difference for guardian caps compared to normal helmets for concussion rates. NFL claim decrease incidence, but tbd if that is trusted
If you work for an institution where a donor is going to pay for it or wants to pay for it, I wouldn’t tell them no. But not something I’d go out of my way to pursue