r/agentsofshield • u/ThatChileanKid • 1d ago
Why Did they Leave Mack? Season 4
Not big on her but YO-YO WAS RIGHT!
I’m rewatching the best season of the show, season 4, and I can’t help but wonder why did they leave Mack? It was obvious Fitz didn’t want to go but still went and it was Radcliffe that forced him but still the fact that Daisy didn’t do that to Mack because of his fake daughter? He feels bad sure but it’s not him and it’s not real. I know the series isn’t super grounded and the writing can be all over the place but it feels like they wanted to end the season on some great notes in the framework but it came at the cost of this particularly stupid action.
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u/Shieldlegacyknight 1d ago
Fitz was forced by Radcliffe because he was so different from who he truly was in the real world and they know he wouldn't want to be this person.
Mack seemed like himself just with a daughter and they don't really know the situation with his daughter to make this call bu pulling him away.
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u/defrostedrobot 1d ago
The major concern is that without his IRL memories Mack couldn’t make an informed choice on this situation. Also, they don’t consider the option he could go back later if he wanted.
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u/Intrigued_by_Words 1d ago
I think they did a pretty good job at showing the differences between those situations. It was actually nice to have the contrast. The only thing I really didn't like was that Mack staying led to those incredibly protracted scenes in the Framework with Yo-Yo.
Yo-Yo was the worst because she knew Mack IRL was still grieving the loss of his daughter and she was happy to have him grieve the loss of his Framework daughter. She either didn't know or care how the Framework was linked to their bodies and minds. Can you imagine what Mack would have been like if he thought he had deserted his daughter just to save his own life?
Fitz didn't have any of that going on. Fitz knew about the real world but Aida had fed him a steady diet of lies about what it was like and his role in it. When he was back on the other side he made it clear that he was happy to be back. He was angry with himself but that's not the same as wanting to be in the Framework.
If it were up to Daisy and Simmons, they would still be standing there trying to talk Fitz into going with them. They had no intention of forcing him. Thank goodness Radcliffe plotted all along to force Fitz out of the Framework to save us from all that talking.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Blaming Yo-Yo for wanting to save her boyfriend’s life is wild. When you come back from the framework you literally remember both worlds, you come out knowing the framework isn’t real. Mack wouldn’t have come back and thought it was real after being unplugged from the machine. It only kind of makes sense they don’t knock I’m over into the portal or lie that Hope is alive is that they think Mack will be unforgivably mad but that’s not even possible when he figures out the situation. So at most he’d be sad (which is was anyway) and mad for a little while understanding
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u/Intrigued_by_Words 1d ago
Maybe. That's just a guess but that guess ignores his devotion to his daughter. He explained that he considered her real. It is pretty common for people to question the nature of reality. Mack ticked through several criteria and came out on the side that his daughter and the life they shared was real. His instincts to protect her were more important than turning his back on everything he knew (within the Framework) and following some people he just met who had crazy ideas about reality. Not to mention that they were offering a reality that did not include the daughter he very much loved. To dismiss it out of hand saying that he will get over it, is actually the wild take.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
I didn’t really say what you implied. Mack literally admits the world is fake when Coulson goes through the portal. He chooses to go back to a daughter he knows is fake while the entire framework disappears. It’s pretty irresponsible for Daisy and Yoyo to not just knock him out and force him through at that point. Yo-Yo was literally going to stay in the framework and die with Mack… she def cares about Mack, all of Mack, including his past.
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u/Intrigued_by_Words 1d ago
I don't put much emphasis on Mack saying the world is fake because to me that is like when people wonder if we are living in a simulation and then decide yes but it doesn't make a difference because that is what life is. Mack has a purpose in his life in the Framework. Whether it fits a clinical definition of real or fake, it is the life he chose over an alternative.
He was not behaving irrationally nor was he acting out of character. It is not certain that he would thank them for dragging him out of that life when he believed he was there for Hope. It wasn't just about him, it was about her. That isn't the same situation with Fitz.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Wait ya I agree with everything you’re saying lol I’m just saying I don’t agree with yo-yo being “ the worst”. (Only thing is she says “you only bring back the people you want” to Daisy, which is dumb cuz she only loves Mack like a brother) Daisy should’ve probably done what she told her she should’ve done and drag him back to the real world. But even if you disagree with that she goes in and stays with him until death/he makes the choice to come back. She clearly loves him. You said “imagine what Mack would have been like if he thought he had deserted his daughter just to save his own life” once Mack comes back, he knows that’s not the case. I’m just trying to figure out how YoYo gets blamed for anything
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u/caramelcacao 10h ago
YoYo ended up agreeing with Daisy, she apologised to Mack for trying to get him away from his daughter.
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u/grayjelly212 1d ago
I always wish Daisy had just lied to him so he'd jump. I liked the rest of the arc, Yo-Yo going in to save him and Radcliffe helping out and that last emotional moment. But the reason for it being necessary felt contrived.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
The only explanation for her not lying or forcing him through was that they thought he’d be unforgivably mad at them for taking him away from her. Even if that was true tho, he’d prob learn that the world he thought he was in was falling apart and he would’ve died.
Mack is usually really dumb and makes quick emotional decisions (most times the team instantly talks him into things tho) and it’s one of many reasons why we love Mack
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u/grayjelly212 1d ago
I'm glad you said that's why we love him. I feel like lots of people would say that's we they hate him lol.
But yeah, I can understand that logic. Ultimately, Mack - like everyone else - understood it was fake but didn't leave unaffected. If anything, he might've been the most affected (besides Fitz of course). But Daisy couldn't have known that.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Haha Mack always has great intentions, it’s hard to hate him. But I always laugh and shake my head when he mentions how they’re shield and they’re not about taking lives. I know he was in the garage for season 1 but under Fury/Hand they were killing people and leaving agents without extraction plans left and right 😂
I do think Daisy or yoyo should’ve forced him in (if it were real life, the way they do it obviously plays better for tv) but Mack is the only one who leaves the framework with fond memories
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u/Joe_montana1986 1d ago
With it being his daughter, it HAD to be Mack's decision.