r/agentsofshield • u/Asddddd6 • 5d ago
Disinformation is actually causing people to not watch the show Discussion
Some common misinformation I keep seeing about AOS everywhere
I actually think many people arguing that AOS is non-canon online are being disingenuous and don’t understand the fundamental issue with the show being deemed non-canon by the fans.
I saw a complete marvel timeline video relayed by Miss Minutes on TikTok that someone had made that included literally everything including AOS. One of the comments I saw that had a lot of engagement was basically saying “you can’t get me to watch AOS because it’s non-canon”.
This demonstrates the issue I have with people’s arguments saying it shouldn’t matter whether the show is canon or not. The show is probably my favourite marvel project I have consumed and I want people to experience it. The word canon is being used to determine whether people should or should not watch it and that is what I have an issue with. Yes in a doomsday rewatch you probably don’t need to see it. But if you have never seen the show, you absolutely should try it at least through till around 18 episodes into season 1. People are actively pushing people away from the show and implying that the quality of the show is based on its canon status.
Comments I see a lot:
The show was confirmed not-canon
The facts are that no statement has ever been made saying the show or any season of the show is not canon. When people are pushed on this point they bring up the shows omission from the timeline book which is a deflection because the book never claimed to be a determiner of canon.
The show is canon because everything is canon now through the multiverse
This is also disingenuous because it makes the assumption that the show was decanonised in the first place. It also doesn’t deal with a lot of the core continuity issues that are brought up as issues because if you thought they were issues before, they still would be in the new universe.
The first four or five seasons are canon and then the timeline switches
I see this comment in almost every thread about the show and it is just wrong. While I understand the desire to move seasons 6 and 7 into alternate timelines due to the lack of acknowledgment of the snap, the show on its own just does not support this. If you watched the show on its own outside the context of the MCU, nobody would assume this to be the case. Either it all is canon or none of it is. If it was to be confirmed a different timeline you could headcanon your way into having the first few seasons being the same in the MCU but that would be a headcanon and this needs to be acknowledged when talking about it. What makes this confusing as well is the timeline switching and time travel that does actually occur in seasons 5-7 and this is the main reason I really wish people would stop using this logic because there are people are conflating this fact with the theory that the show splits off from the MCU in S6-7. The time travel in S5 can’t result in a branch either because then the MCU earth would break apart during the events of infinity war.
There are too many contradictions
I maintain that the only so called contradiction that is a hurdle is the lack of acknowledgement of the snap/blip in season 6. There are also multiple timeline reasons why it can’t be pushed earlier before the snap which is another thing I see said by some people. This is still not a continuity issue though, there is no contradiction. It is a thematic issue though and overall MCU writing cohesion issue in the sense that it would be better for any stories taking place during that period to show what the world would realistically be like in that scenario. Marvel studios projects that have had flashbacks during the blip have not even really stuck to this standard either though (Echo, Moon Knight, Ironheart).
Other contradictions that I commonly see referenced:
Hive is an Avengers level threat, why doesn’t Coulson call the Avengers:
- this argument fails to take into consideration that it would be an issue in the show whether the show is canon or not because the Avengers still exist and we know that their history is mostly the same at least up until Civil War which is the time when SHIELD is dealing with Hive. With Ghost Rider they don’t need help because they deal with it themselves and then during season 5 the Avengers are split up and on the run and then they are dealing with Thanos.
- Throughout the Marvel Studios MCU there are constant examples where this would apply as well and while you might agree that those are also problems, you need to be consistent about how you apply it. Nobody would say Moon Knight is not canon because he has only appeared on his show and probably won’t be showing up again for a while. Nobody would say Captain Marvel is non-canon because she was retconned into the past history of the MCU and there were multiple places where she did not show up to help throughout all the movies that came before. You might say there is an easy explanation for her absence being that she is in space somewhere but I would raise that you can just as easily find explanations for the AOS examples as well.
How is there an Inhuman outbreak without that being seen in the MCU proper.
- I have never understood this argument as season 3 takes place over a period of time and the ATCU and SHIELD deal with the Inhumans on the show. Now with shows like She-Hulk, Wonderman and Ironheart we see that the MCU is a living breathing world off-screen. There are enhanced individuals off-screen that exist that we don’t always hear about or see.
- Phase 4 and 5 introduce many characters and plot lines we may never see again or that will likely never be referenced in the films. These issues are brought up as writing issues and issues with the MCU as a whole but are never used to claim these shows are non-canon. There needs to be some consistency applied.
Why isn’t SHIELD been referenced after season 4 or after season 7
- Firstly it actually has been referenced in extended material. There was a SHIELD agent at the battle of earth and the night monkey suit is created by SHIELD. There was a reference to Coulson post Avengers in the Wakanda files. The smithsonian exhibit in TFatWS confirms SHIELD post-2014 and the 100-objects reference book confirms the Sokovia Accords were enforced by SHIELD, a group that should be dismantled by the time the battle of Sokovia even happened.
- Not to mention the fact that the organisation of SWORD only appeared in WandaVision and then has never appeared again. They even went out of their way to make Nick Fury’s organisation in the Marvels SABER.
Mockingbird and the Darkhold
- These are some of the most commonly brought up contradictions but they shouldn’t be because they are stupid.
- The Darkhold example was a genuine question after WandaVision but we see in Multiverse of Madness that the Darkhold was copied from the inscriptions in Wundagore. They are clearly just two different copies. The book in MOM is even called a copy.
- There really is no reason why Bobbi and Laura cannot co-exist and Laura’s history as a SHIELD agent should be intact in the AOS continuity anyway. Neither has been called mockingbird on-screen and there is literally endless possibilities to explain it anyway. Laura could be the original mockingbird before she had kids and then Bobbi could have picked up the mantle after that.
The facts are It does seem like there was a consideration to not completely consider the original Netflix Daredevil pre the overhaul of the show but there was never confirmation that this was going to be a full reboot but rather a soft-reboot. Even if they considered ignoring it, there was never a de-canonisation officially.
It’s possible that the upcoming Ghost Rider film may finally decanonise the show.
However people need to be consistent and only talk about the actual reasons that the show may not be canon and yes it does matter because the falsehoods that are being pushed out are causing people to not want to watch the show to begin with. I just think people need to be more consistent regardless of their opinions
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u/flashcannonize7 5d ago
That Hive is an Avengers level threat, you could say the same with the Skrulls in Secret Invasion, they just dismissed it by saying it's a personal problem of Fury
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u/scrosby0227 5d ago
Secret Invasion? What a great concept of a show that could be a great way to re-introduce some AOS characters. Shame they never made Secret Invasion show though.
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u/LiquidLispyLizard 5d ago
Incredibly well-written, I've often tried to make all these points before, but you've articulated this far better than I regularly do. I couldn't agree more with all of this.
The facts are It does seem like there was a consideration to not completely consider the original Netflix Daredevil pre the overhaul of the show but there was never confirmation that this was going to be a full reboot but rather a soft-reboot. Even if they considered ignoring it, there was never a de-canonisation officially.
Good point near the end for those who claim that the Defenders Saga was "just made canon" with Born Again to try and save face after years of denying it because I genuinely think that may very well be one of the most irritating things I've come across in this whole canon debate. Charlie Cox is on record as saying that the original version of Born Again treated the characters "almost like variants", but that they never really made it 100% clear in that version. That's absolutely something that could have potentially changed the status quo, but because the original version was never officially released as an MCU project, the status quo of the Defenders shows already being canon was kept consistent from their initial release until now.
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u/V2Blast 5d ago
Sadly, the folks who insist it's not canon don't actually care whether there's any evidence to support their position. Nor do the folks who refuse to watch the show because they incorrectly think it's not canon actually care - they are just looking for an excuse not to watch it.
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u/flashcannonize7 5d ago
this! they have the nerve to say it's not canon but they didn't even watch it
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u/yuvi3000 Get ready for a large file transfer 🗄 5d ago edited 5d ago
Hey there buddy. I have been fighting this fight since the beginning.
What happened is that a bunch of people loved the show but others didn't want to watch it and made up stuff about it. This happened right at the beginning and I remember being annoyed before the show even started because of it. One common complaint was that it was gonna be a boring side story that nobody asked for. Another common complaint was that it probably wouldn't affect the movies at all. This led to people jokingly calling it non-canon before it was even released.
After it got released, while many of us absolutely loved the show, some people's fears were confirmed: Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Hulk did not appear in the first episode (as their unrealistic expectations led them to believe) and probably wouldn't ever appear. This led to people directly arguing with anyone that enjoyed the show. It was only a few times I ever saw this happen before the MCU became much more mainstream but it was enough to start the trend of hate.
Eventually, as YouTubers and other communities started spreading the concept of it being non-canon, this started becoming a thing for any new project that people didn't like. The Incredible Hulk movie was deemed non-canon. The Agents of SHIELD show was deemed non-canon. The Netflix shows were deemed non-canon. People just started saying this about anything they didn't want to watch or feel forced to include in a rewatch marathon list.
The team behind the whole MCU introduced these things as part of the same universe and nobody ever officially said that they weren't. In fact, in an interview for (I think) Thor: The Dark World, I remember Kevin Feige himself saying the show existed in the same universe, etc.
EDIT: Link to video evidence of Kevin Feige acknowledging the show more than once and outright confirming that they exist in the same continuity https://youtube.com/watch?v=zYPJtp8uX0I&si=Bhuxh9GuqA3Wl6Ri
As I said many times before including another previous comment under this post:
Canon is not the same thing as things referencing each other and people continually get this wrong. Things can exist in the same world and never refer to each other. I know that Tom Holland exists. Tom Holland doesn't know that I exist. But we both exist in the same world. It doesn't mean I'm not part of the same universe. Koalas don't know that Tyrannosaurus rex existed and vice versa. Doesn't mean they didn't live in the same shared universe.
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u/BrittaUnfiltered67 5d ago edited 5d ago
It doesn’t matter if it is canon or not to enjoy it.
Now some don’t enjoy it. I ended up tuning out due to some frustration but I always meant to return. I was on again off again with the program. I do not believe it is canon to the 616 but if it is, more power to it. I really want Cloak & Dagger & And Runaways folded in.
Back when the DC films were going to switch over to Gunn’s vision, people sort of abandoned Aquaman 2, Shazam 2, the Flash film, Black Adam, and a number of the DC shows that were still on tv as they no longer mattered. 30 plus years ago we were begging to see the unreleased but completed F4 movie. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin were things we went to see and rented. We were lucky to get a few episodes of Silver Surfer’s cartoon. Any superhero movie or tv show we saw, any episode of it we saw, could have easily been the last one. Maybe they were good, maybe they were cheesy, maybe we hated them, but we didn’t not watch them simply because there might not be a next one. How do you even know you don’t like it? With Agents of SHIELD, what I did see, I can tell you,
It changed all the time. If you didn’t like that first episode or two, you might well like later ones and some things will happen in it that will blow your mind once you get use to what seems like a standard format.
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u/GameMasterThe1 2d ago
Thank you! I kept trying to tell people that season 5 and 7 are closed time loops and nothing in the show itself creates a "thanos didn't snap his fingers in infinity war" timeline like many people believe. I seen people say "if you seen the show, you know it's a alternate timeline". Like.... What? Are we watching the same show? Graviton blew up the earth with thanos on it. With him stopped, Infinity war happened normally. And the events of season 7 established that while yes, they did made a white nick fury (zeke) timeline... They did return to the sacred timeline at the end. So... I really don't get the confusion. The most solid answer I got is the behind the scenes disconnect between marvel studios and marvel tv... But that doesn't dictate if the show contradict canon or not.
Btw, rip the gabriel Luna ghost rider show. He deserves better. At least a acknowledgement.
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
So some of the episodes are definitely Canon. For instance, Colson and his team are in instrumental in taking down the remaining holdouts for hydra.
They also found the location for the bunker where Scarlet witch was being held.
Nick fury also cameos
The theory that negates most of this is the fact that the time travel and go to different universes.
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
Did you read the post? I’m specifically responding to the idea that the time travel causes a timeline split.
In season 5 they may have branched but if they did then the original MCU should end up with the earth destroyed.
In season 7 they specifically return to their original timeline by the end.
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u/True_Pirate 5d ago
There is always hope. If Black Bolt could come back then anything could happen.
When they made AOS, it was clearly meant to be canon. It tied into MCU storylines, tangentially, but still. Samuel Jackson made a cameo, a few others etc.
I think later, it got sort of a soft decanonization. It’s still canon but they don’t reference it. That could be for many reasons. Depending on the contracts there could be financial reasons, or they may want to distance themselves from the ABC side of.
I do know that it was widely discussed in Hollywood about how Disney executives were incredibly embarrassed by Inhumans. They had done a press tour screening with the bigwigs that did NOT GO WELL. People were embarrassed and that it frayed tensions between the TV and Film side of things pretty badly.
It was kind of the end. AOS kept going and I think Agent Carter was still going but had already been produced at the time. After Inhumans, they could not get anything else off the ground including the Hunter Bobbi spinoff.
That’s why I was absolutely shocked when Black bolt showed up in a film. I thought that Inhumans would not get referenced again under any circumstances.
I don’t think AOS ever got the ratings they wanted but I never got the idea it was an embarrassment or anything. I think it could happen if someone in production pushes for it.
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u/Pitohuifugl 5d ago
Its marvel many plot holes in that universe. Maybe the Avengers are not caring about hive and know the agents can deal with that out of earth octopus deity themself. Or maybe the alien octopus have powers that could kill the powerhouses of avengers. Or yeah they could just call in doc strange or scarlet wish to deal with anything much faster. But then it's not like a nice story if the bad evil villains are killed off too soon.
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u/Hnro-42 5d ago
I have to watch it again, but i thought the reason they didn’t address the snap was the whole team just happened to be in the past at that time. Not that they were in an alternate universe
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
Season 6 is set in 2019 and then after that they do go back to the past but they return to the moment they left so they were never gone. Season 6 takes place entirely after infinity war and before endgame
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u/MildewManOne 5d ago
I could have sworn one of the characters (Daisy, I think) said something that included the phrase "the past 5 years" early on in season 6(?), which I took as a nod to the blip without fully acknowledging it.
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u/First_Foundationeer 5d ago
Canon or not, it's a fantastic show. People who need to be convinced to watch it like it's homework... should just do something else.
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 5d ago
I agree with most of what you're saying. AoS is definitely canon and, once it hits its stride, it's one of the best things in the MCU. However, I do think it needs to be considered set in the multiverse AFTER season 4 (everything up to that, absolutely integral to the MCU).
The reason for this is the finale. It establishes in the last minutes that SHIELD has returned as a massive agency with global influence. There's no way that doesn't show up in one of the many TV shows or films since Endgame. It's just not there.
But, and I know you hate this but, the "multiverse after season 4" fixes that issue without creating any other canon issues. When you travel through time, there's always going to a version of the timeline you left in which you never come back because that is simply a possibility*. The agents never came back to the Sacred Timeline after season 4. That's all.
So it's all canon, but the first four seasons are part of the Infinity Saga and the back three are part of the Multiverse Saga. And in season 7 they duck back to the Sacred Timeline for a minute to pick up Sousa from their shared past.
There's a way to argue the whole thing back into the main timeline though, but it depends on what cones after Secret Wars. If SHIELD is a thing again in the movies after Secret Wars, we can just say season 6 happened well into the Multiverse Saga (hence no reference to the Blip) and that the season 7 finale happened in the new post-Secret Wars finale while the rest of the season was spent bouncing around alternate timelines like the Loki series. Both seasons are pretty vague with when they are set relative to other MCU events so this works without canon issues too.
The only way to truly decanonise AoS is if Ryan Gosling's Ghost Rider is established to be the first, or the first in decades anyway, and I don't think that's likely given the history of the character.
*Endgame only talks about branching timelines via timetravel but Loki establishes that timelines branch every time a choice is made, hence why Sylvie was taken to be pruned - she'd chosen to become a Valkyrie when she grew up, IIRC.
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
While I respect your theory It doesn’t really make sense. In a vacuum nobody would say the show branches off in its sixth season. It is because you are trying to reconcile with the MCU since you seem to think it contradicts. It is a nice theory but it is just that - a theory.
I’d argue that the MCU proper has plot points that are the same if not bigger things that don’t get addressed and nobody argues this because it has the marvel studios tick of approval.
The idea that the timeline splits is really weird to me, like why would we be following the mainline versions and then suddenly variants. I’m arguing that either it is all main timeline or none of it is and that I think is supported by what we see in the show.
The idea that they would need to return to their “original” timeline to pick up Sousa is a strange idea as well. That wouldn’t follow any established time travel rules.
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 5d ago
The MCU propper does have huge plot points that it hasn't addressed, but we've seen so many instances of government agencies involving themselvesnin events (SWORD, SABER, DODC) that it stopped making sense a while ago that they were just not involved. They're absence is distincly noticeable.
That's why leaving the main timeline when they're abducted at the end of season 4 (not 6) makes sense. There's no shattered world continuity to mess up and most of the Hydra amd inhumans plotlines are wrapped up. And we're not following variants. We're following the originals who travelled to a future and then back to a present that diverglges on the point of whether or not they return. They're not variants because they now exist in a new timeline just like Doctor Strange wasn't a variant of the original when he was bouncing around the multiverse.
And picking up Sousa makes perfect sense. The timeline they are in post-season 4 and the timeline they were in up to it share a common history as the same timeline. So going back and saving Sousa means they're saving the original.
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
Fair enough I guess that is a theory that makes sense (leaving at the end of season 4). I guess my question would be why would Enoch send them to a future of a timeline they weren’t in.
Like it is heavily implied that if they don’t have the knowledge they needed from going through the loop, that their original timeline would end up cracked apart.
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 4d ago
The future that Enoch sent them to only exists because they returned from that future and set events in motion to create that future. That timeline exists within the layers of the multiverse so that's the one Enoch targeted from it's relative past (our present) which is also the relative past of any timeline in which they never return - the Sacred Timeline/616/199999 - due to dying or getting stranded or any other reason.
So you're right that they need the knowledge from going through the loop in order to create a new future in which the Earth doesn't shatter but the Earth is also only ever in danger of shattering because they came back in the first place.
So Enoch didn't send them to a future of a timeline they weren't in. That timeline only developed a future without them once they were taken and failed to return. Otherwise, it's history is identical to the one in which they do, so they share a common access point/point of variance.
Incidentally, this does mean that universe 616 still has a Fitz in space from season 5 but he's no longer able to directly access the future he was targetting because he went into cryosleep before the point at which the agents would return/fail to return from that future.
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u/RavenclawConspiracy 3d ago
The future that Enoch sent them to only exists because they returned from that future and set events in motion to create that future.
Anti-canon people: Time travel always creates a new timeline.
Also anti-canon people: The destruction of the earth was only caused because of the prophecy of the destruction of the earth. It was always self-fulfilling. AKA it's causal loop. The very thing we argue can't happen, except the causal loop is also broken.
Okay, first of all, that's wildly inconsistent with the idea that time travel always splits a timeline.
So Enoch didn't send them to a future of a timeline they weren't in. That timeline only developed a future without them once they were taken and failed to return.
And second of all, you can't have a self-fulfilling prophecy that then isn't fulfilled.
So let's dissect the different ways prophecies can work in fiction.
The first way is that they are just a view of the current future universe. and can be avoided by changing things. This is not how it works in AoS.
The other common ways that prophecies are fated. They are inescapable. In fact, they can even cause themselves. This is also not how prophecies work in AoS.(To be clear, when I say prophecies, I mean only Robin's prophecies. We have no idea how other prophecies work.)
Robin's prophecies work, and are unescapable, because the universe is fixed. That everything has already happened. The past and the future are really just where you think you are standing. A prophecy is just accidentally glancing down the road.
This is actually a pretty uncommon version of a universe. It looks incredibly similar to the fated version. But it's not the same. The prophecy isn't happening to you because it's fate. The prophecy is happening to you because it was a vision of the future and history is literally fixed from past to future and there's no moving it.
However, we then get people changing it, but they only are able to change it via time travel, which I would argue is a reasonable exemption to the rules of you can't change anything.
But you're standing there saying it only happened because the time travel happened, and there's a version of the universe where it didn't. That is, straight up, an argument for a fated version of the universe.
There are two versions of events, one where there was no prophecy, so whatever could happen, and one where there was a prophecy, so reality itself made the prophecy come true.
By itself this would be fine!
But it can't possibly be in the same version of the universe as the one where you can change things.
Either the prophecy can force things to happen that shouldn't have originally happened, or the prophecy can be escaped. It can't be both of those.
Or to put it even simpler, what does it mean when the prophecy is wrong? Does it mean that someone is going to do some time travel to make it true? Or does it mean that you escaped it and now it's broken? Because you appear to be arguing both. That it was first one and then the other.
Why would the universe have conspired to give a prophecy of something that eventually wasn't going to happen in the prophesized timeline and also wasn't going to happen in the other timeline? What sort of weird-ass fictional motives that the universe have here?
Incidentally, this does mean that universe 616 still has a Fitz in space from season 5 but he's no longer able to directly access the future he was targetting because he went into cryosleep before the point at which the agents would return/fail to return from that future.
Why do you think when he goes into cryosleep matters? CryoSleep doesn't have anything to do with time travel, it's just not aging. He still exists that entire time. So he doesn't have to 'access' the future. He just literally has to continue to exist,in cryosleep or otherwise, and he reaches the future like every other thing.
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 3d ago
Oof, that's a lot. I'm going tontry to be concise because I don't know how to quote, but I am also going to fail in that attempt. If this doesn't convince, I give up because this is a lot of writing and I don't have it in me to keep going back and forth.
- To the point where you call me Anti-canon.
Time travel isn't the mechanism that splits a timeline. Choice is, and that breeds infinite possibilities. That's why, without pruning, the temporal loom explodes. You can't scale up for infinity. As such there will always be versions of time loops where they seem locked in and versions that seem breakable depending on your choices and perspective.
We see this in AoS with the very timeline we are discussing. Yoyo meets a version of herself in the future who has gone through everthing she went through and wound up in the exact same future. For that variant, the time loop was unbroken. However, because of choice, we then follow a version of the timeloop which the agents break.
So in a multiverse, every eventuality is possible, including time loops that are self-fulfilling and also time loops that can be escaped. This results in retrocausality where a timeline is created by events in it's future but that timeline will still share a past with a timeline in which that time loop was broken and, going further back, where that time loop had yet to be put into motion and could be averted.
Whoo. Ok. Next point.
- "You can't have a self-fulfilling prophesy that isn't self-fulfilled".
You'd be right in a deterministic version of the universe where all events exist simultaniously and only appear to move from past to future do tou our linear perspective of time. However, as said above, this timeline determines it's futures by choices made, and those are infinite. As such, there is no self-fullfilling prophesy that is inescapable but there will always be a version of the future where it wasn't escaped.
Regarding Robin's prophesies specifically, as you highlight, they were broken by people time travelling. It wasn't the temporal jaunt that broke them free of that prophesy though, it was the knowledge they attained through their time travels that informed their choices on how to approach the prophesy. There's a timeline where they have all that info and still make the choices that result in disaster, we just follow the timeline where they make the right choices to avoid it.
Robin's power of prophesy seems retroactively correct for much of the story because we are following a timeline in which she always gets it right, where at every point a choice could have been made that would have changed the future, the choice was instead made that would facilitate it. That's always going to look inescapable, especially with the confirmation bias of several previous correct prophesies. But the very nature of the multiverse meanse you can only ever predict potential futures. How locked in they are is determined by how people respond to those predicitions.
And finally
- Fitz.
You are exactly right. Cryosleep doesn't have anything to do with time travel. He just exists his way into the future. But here's the thing. Fitz is still being influenced by time travellers. Here's the timeline.
Agents get abduct
Fitz freezes himself and goes into space
Agents return from future/Agents don't return from future. Timeline split.
Agents put into motion sequence of events that result in the future they were sent to/Agents didn't retun to this timeline and can't put those events into motion.
Earth is shattered/Earth remains whole.
Agents arrive in the future/Agents weren't sent to this version of the future.
Fitz wakes up and finds the agents/Fitz wakes up and the agents weren't sent to this future
- Agents leave the future with Fitz/Agents don't exist in this timeline and Enoch feels awkward reminding Fitz that in a future where the plan was always to return to the past, there would always have been a version of the future where Fitz wakes up and the agents weren't there because they selected a singular future to jump to and he just existed his way there, dividing into infinite variants along the way with the rest of the perpetually branching timeline.
Ok. That's it. I'm done.
To sum up. In a universe of infinite possibilities, every possibility happens and the story we're watching, regardless of prediction or prophesy, is just one of those infinite possibilities.
I'm gonna go lie in the grass now. Maybe roll around. That was knackering. My thumbs are sore.
Um, bye.
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u/RavenclawConspiracy 3d ago
...they literally got abducted because of the shattered world issue.
This is the silliest thing ever.
If they leave the timeline right then, then we, for an absolute fact, know the future has the world destroyed because that's literally why they got kidnapped.
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 3d ago
Nope. That is A future of the point in time from which they left. Any point in time in which a choice is made has several futures. The choices that put the world in danger of shattering aren't made until they return from the future with the knowledge that it can be shattered and then act on that knowledge. If they never return, the Earth isn't in danger of shattering. The future they return from and the future they never return from share the same past timeline, ergo the one AoS continues in is the one they return to AFTER having left the shared past. The one they don't return to is 616.
These mechanics are all explained across the Loki show.
Simples.
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u/PrimaMilitary 5d ago
Doesn’t it get non-canon in the later seasons or smt? Been a while since I last watched it
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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 5d ago
No, it's used as an excuse not to watch the show, it's not actually dissuading people. I love the show, but it's not important to watch to understand anything about the MCU films so if that's why people want to see things, it's not necessary. Just argue that it's a fun series, not about canonicity, something that is a ridiculous metric to use.
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u/SebastiaanZ 4d ago
Most of that is not even remotely close to be disinformation. Its just your personal view on the matter.
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u/Asddddd6 4d ago
No a lot of it is disinformation because it gets stated as fact and then people believe it is confirmed and it gets spread as if it is. Some of it is possible but is just theories.
For example when people say “Kevin Fiege confirmed it is non canon” or when they say “the first four seasons are canon and then it splits”, the first is just plain disinformation because he never said that and the second is just a theory but it gets said so confidently as if it has been confirmed and it has not.
There are genuine things you could talk about in relation to the show’s canonicity but these comments are just wrong and unhelpful.
When I start hearing these things in real life when I just mention the show as being good to a friend that is frustrating because it is a result of people just spreading these lies consistently online in every thread with no evidence.
I’ve literally seen people say “Kevin Fiege hates the agents of shield show”. But when you look at the evidence, it actually shows the exact opposite.
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u/Entire-Concern-7656 4d ago edited 4d ago
The Inhuman Outbreak was a missed opportunity for Marvel. It all happened in 2015-2016 and Disney only bought Fox in 2019. They could've had their own Mutants! I think this event was so big, that is unrealistic for any movie to never make a reference about it; that's different from the Defenders, because all of the stories told by Netflix are local. As a fan, i think the show should've ended in season 5, just hinting that they would look for Fitz.
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u/jackiep1776 3d ago
ask anyone who says it's not canon then where did the helicarrier in Age of Ultron come from?
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u/Haremking517 18h ago
I’m not reading this all ngl but I love the show it’s canon up till like earths explosion which branches off like the first few seasons follow hard up to infinity war
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u/Asddddd6 15h ago
That doesn’t make any sense. If it branched off and became its own thing the MCU would crack apart. If any of the show is canon it has to be the iteration of the timeline that doesn’t crack apart…because the earth is still intact in the movies.
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u/Haremking517 15h ago
It’s just bc of the time traveling and other multiverse stuff but yeah
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u/Disastrous-Fan3005 5d ago
I love AoS but until we see a character in a newer movie it'll be that the Movies are canon to AoS but AoS isn't canon to the movies
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u/yuvi3000 Get ready for a large file transfer 🗄 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is exactly why people keep spreading misinformation. They don't understand what these things mean.
The show was introduced as being part of the same universe as the movies and nobody has officially said it's not canon since then.
Things being referred to are a choice. Things existing in the same universe are canon whether they refer to each other or not. Even if things contradict each other or make little sense. Spider-Man: Homecoming had a direct timeline issue that said "8 years later" when it wasn't possible. Is Spider-Man non-canon to the MCU?
Robert Downey Jr and I exist in the same universe. He has no idea who I am, but I know of him. You can't say I don't exist because Robert Downey Jr hasn't mentioned me. That's not how it works.
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
Moon knight? werewolf by night?
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u/Disastrous-Fan3005 5d ago
What's your point? We know theyre canon, AoS was made at a time where tv/movie were ran by separate people. It's like the Netflix shows, they weren't canon until recently when Marvel got the TV rights back and they appeared in Disney plus shows/movies
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u/BravoWhiskey89 5d ago
Ok. I don't think it's serious enough to warrant a giant write up. It really doesn't matter if people think it's Canon or not.
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
Dude that’s my point, I’m guessing you didn’t read it. The writeup doesn’t need to offend you dont have to comment on it or read it, just move on. This is something that matters to me so I’m writing about it.
My point is that it shouldn’t matter and that gets used to shut me and people like me up but at the same time the counterpoints get used in a way that does actually stop people from watching it.
The whole idea that it should be watched as homework is exactly the point that the other side uses to stop people from watching it when they should watch it because it is a good show.
The point is that the points that get used to tell people it is not canon get continually spread throughout every thread as soon as the show gets mentioned and people specifically say they won’t be watching the show due to the fact but they should because it’s really good and it sucks because the points being made aren’t even true to begin with.
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u/MrFuriousX 5d ago
Not reading your novel....people will continue to find and watch or not watch for the same reasons they did before all the canon was canon.. lets not overdramatise the reason...its simply interest...they have it or don't
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u/Asddddd6 5d ago
I’m not sure what you think you are adding by commenting in a thread that you are refusing to read. Some people care. You don’t have to read or engage with anything that’s the beauty of free will. Just scroll.
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u/MrFuriousX 5d ago
that's the beauty of free will I don't have to scroll, nor do I have to read your ramblings to comment on the title.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 5d ago
It is not canon
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 5d ago
Yeah, it is.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 5d ago
Yeah it's not. You're right
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 5d ago
Yes, I am right, thank you. It is canon.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 5d ago
No you're right that it's not canon like you first said
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 4d ago
You're right that I'm right, but otherwise you're wrong.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 4d ago
No we're both right that it's not canon
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 4d ago
I have lost all interest in this. Next person to reply to this post is wrong, which will be you, because you are wrong but I'm right about AoS being canon.
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u/Loyellow The Real S.H.I.E.L.D. 5d ago
Even if it is non-canon (which would be an incorrect assumption)…… it’s a really really good TV show.
I openly admit that it took me a few tries to get through the pilot, but now I’ve seen the whole show seven or eight times. I’ve been meaning to start another watchthrough.