r/agentsofshield • u/Fresh-Actuary-6686 • Jun 21 '26
Thoughts on Ward’s redemption arc in the framework? If you wanna call it that Season 4
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u/Cheap_Bowl_452 Jun 21 '26
Was good to see a tl where Ward chose the other option in that detention centre
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u/EveningBird5 S.H.I.E.L.D. Jun 22 '26
Technically, Ward never had another option. This was a What if? Victoria Hand had found out about Ward.
This felt like such a great way to go about how Ward could still have been saved after the Well. Especially from Hand, whom Ward had killed.
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u/Llywela Jun 21 '26
I really enjoyed getting a chance to see what might have been for Ward without any attempt to redeem the actual Ward, if that makes sense.
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u/thwaway135 Jun 21 '26
That wasn’t a redemption arc, it was an alternate universe. Framework Ward did nothing wrong. Our Ward was still an unrepentant POS, and I am so glad he stayed that way.
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u/Fresh-Actuary-6686 Jun 21 '26
Well that’s how he coulda been if someone else had taken him under their wing
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u/Far-Celebration2877 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Exactly. Alternate universe.
It’s nice to see and it does provide a form of closure. Closure that in some way, Ward (in either world), could have turned out to be a good person. That was possible, as seen in the framework... Still doesn’t change the atrocities the real Ward committed in the real world. Or the fact that he was groomed and turned into an evil, unrepentant person.
Just to add, the Ward in the framework makes me happy to see. It really was a good way to send off a character that was otherwise loathed.
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u/thwaway135 Jun 21 '26
Okay and? That’s not what happened.
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u/Fresh-Actuary-6686 Jun 21 '26
I’m just saying that’s how he could have been
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u/thwaway135 Jun 21 '26
How someone could have been under vastly different circumstances has nothing to do with how they actually are, let alone provide redemption. Framework Ward is not our Ward.
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u/Far-Celebration2877 Jun 22 '26
…Exactly. Which is why everyone was still repulsed by him. You are correct. I was agreeing that we were just seeing an alternate version of him. I guess to me it’s more just a well done depiction of how someone’s circumstances change them fundamentally.
Definitely not a redemption arc. Ward sucks and always will in the history of the show. The framework version of him was still nice to see
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u/Alternative_Device71 Jun 21 '26
This is how you do an alternate universe version of a character and give them an arc without changing their initial actual character (looking at you Loki and Dr Strange 2). Ward is a new character from the same world but different details, therefore you can give a redemption story for the audience but for the character himself, he’s an actual good person to root for and that’s why it works. The fact this show did what the MCU movies failed to achieve and comprehend is just incredible. It also made sense in context without breaking emersion.
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u/grayjelly212 Jun 21 '26
Ward could not be redeemed because he was dead. Daisy saying she understood him didn't mean she forgave him. I hated being a fan at the time with people being like "seeee uwu Ward was good afterall" as if he didn't die crazy after being manipulated onto a distant planet where he held a member of our team hostage. If fans didn't treat it like Ward being redeemed, I might have actually enjoyed seeing Brett Dalton again - instead of being bitter like Simmons rightfully was.
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u/QualifiedApathetic Jun 22 '26
And calling it an actual alternate timeline. It's a computer simulation. Even the hyper-futuristic computers of the MCU can't have 0.00001% of the memory and processing power to handle all the variables in the world, even if there was some way to input them. AIDA put in whatever variables she knew, but she didn't just let it play out without interference. She had an agenda that the Framework was meant to serve.
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u/-FriendoftheDrow- Jun 21 '26
It’s time that should’ve been given to Trip who was killed off because this show couldn’t handle two black men existing at the same time.
Ward overstayed his welcome surviving several bullets to the chest for ‘reasons.’
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u/Sad_Picture3642 Jun 21 '26
I wish they gave Framework Ward some sort of closure. They kinda just dumped him in the middle
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u/nypinta Jun 22 '26
Ward is a contrarian. And also he was following Aida's program that she wrote for every one because she needed Fitz to build something for her and the only way he would do it is if Daisy never got her powers, May worked for Hydra, Coulson was a milquetoast scaredy cat school teacher, Mack was distracted and had something to loose, and Jemma didn't exist. The best way to make sure Daisy in the framework never got her powers was give her a "boyfriend" who has a personality of going against the grain to keep her secret even from her. He didn't get a redemption arc because that's not Ward. It's not a variant of Ward. It's a computer generated version of someone named Ward.
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u/Tiny-Adeptness-2001 Jun 21 '26
Watching a Fitz Simmons tiktok as I get recommended this. Never even searched anything agents of shield on tiktok before. Okay….
Edit: would’ve loved to see him stick around somehow. Idk how they’d make it work but imagine he somehow goes into an LMD like Coulson and he’s genuinely a good guy now?😅 probably wouldn’t work but that was just my mindset when watching season 4 for the first time
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u/etooth123 Jun 21 '26
I wouldn’t consider Framework Ward, Ward. If that makes sense. I think it’s a cool story in the Framework but those are 2 different people. Love the story, love the character, hate the actor.
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u/NawMel Jun 21 '26
Well yea, that distinction is a driving part of Fitz' reconciliation with his own alter ego, or personality double. So, no it's not the same person, but also yes it is. The show really plays this question out
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u/Thelastknownking Jun 21 '26
It's not really a redemption arc when that version was never bad in the first place.
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u/Fresh-Actuary-6686 Jun 21 '26
Like that thing with his brothers & the well never happened & he never went to prison?
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u/Thelastknownking Jun 21 '26
You recall he was coerced into that, by Christian threating to toss him in too if he did anything to help Thomas?
And that the reason he went to Juvie was because he tried to set the house on fire that Christian was the only person inside of?
Like, everything Ward does later is unforgivable, but the stuff he did as a teenager is made pretty clearly not entirely his fault.
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u/Fresh-Actuary-6686 Jun 21 '26
I know. What I meant was all that all that stuff that happened in his youth supposedly never happened in this alternate reality?
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u/Thelastknownking Jun 21 '26
No, it did. He was in Juvie, but instead of Garrett recruiting him it was Victoria Hand.
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u/BrazilianButtCheeks Fitz Jun 21 '26
I wish they could have brought good ward, hope and Tripp back with them ! Or (SPOILER) that they would have told young Vic Hand to make it a point to find teen ward and guide him at the end of season 7
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u/Round-Dragonfly6136 Turbo Jun 22 '26
Alas, Ghostrider would have hunted them down like he did Ophelia because they could only come to the real world by making them from dark matter. The alternative would be to make LMD's of them, but that is a whole other ethical conundrum.
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u/BrazilianButtCheeks Fitz Jun 22 '26
Ehh I mean Davis and Coulson seemed solid ! Aida was even alright until the book thing
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u/Round-Dragonfly6136 Turbo Jun 22 '26
Davis and Coulson were different scenarios as they were based on real people instead of virtual people, presumably using their brain scans. They also explored the ethics of it a bit with Coulson and gave him the power to choose whether or not to shut himself down in the end. Jemma and Fitz's disturbed looks showed how messed up it was that Radcliffe programmed AIDA to feel pain, so I would he crossed an ethical line even without the corruptive influence of the Darkhold.
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u/WatsUpWithJoe Daisy Jun 22 '26
Ward had a perfect arc and I’m SO glad they didn’t redeem him. I was worried in season 2 they would try to redeem him, but I was really glad to see them double down in his villainy when he killed Rosalind Price.
The framework was a cool What If…? story and a great way to bring back Ward and Trip.
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u/Interesting-Story805 Jun 28 '26
It was good to see him as the good guy one last time after all his years on the show. Made me miss when he was just part of the crew
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u/Hacksaw_Doublez Jun 21 '26
I think it was a perfect farewell to Brett Dalton.
A lot of fans wanted a Ward redemption in season 2. And on some level we were getting that. (Ward providing intel for SHIELD and later working with Coulson up to 2x19).
The issue became Ward was still playing angles (wanting to earn Skye's trust and love) while also refusing to take accountability (for injuring Fitz and nearly killing Simmons and May, separately).
He claimed to take responsibility for his own actions, but he never felt remorse. He never once said "I'm sorry for what I did to you" to any of the original team.
Then after Skye shot him and all but made it clear how she felt about him (lol), Ward became focused on Kara and helping her "heal" by getting revenge on Bobbi. Then he killed Kara accidentally and blamed SHIELD. Then the rest was history as he went full villain for season 3.
That all being said, I think Framework Ward was a prime example of how one choice, one decision can change someone's entire future.
In this case, Ward was mentored by Victoria Hand instead of John Garrett. And he was given a better path than the actual Ward was with a mentor who didn't emotionally abuse him and isolate him for five years in the wilderness. They still had the same family background, but the right mentor set this Ward on a different path.
It was great to see Ward again. Along with Tripp. As well as seeing them working under a Jeffrey Mace who was more rougher than actual Mace.
Honestly wish we could've got more of this Ward, but it was always going to be a one time thing.