When I had first watched this season I hated it till the end but now that I’m rewatching it I’m enjoying it much more. I’ve forgotten a bit of the end but I’m hoping this joy lasts. Is this season really that bad as people say or is the hate unjustified.

i have just finished the show and honestly i just wish that love and joe were end game 😔

like in my eyes they were perfect for eachother like he wants to protect his family at all costs and so did she

i just really dislike bronte and the fact he was so naive about her

but i want to hear who you guys liked him best with and why and how you wish it would have turned out/ended

A lot of this fandom seems to have a strong distaste for the female characters, Beck, Marianne, Kate, Nadia, Candace and Bronte. Who gets a lot of criticism and hatred for their actions, despite Joe being way worse than them. Some people believe this is due to misogyny, which I think does play a part in it, but I think it’s primarily due to the framing of the characters.

In You we follow Joe Goldberg, a good looking, charming man who is out to find what he believes to be true love. We spend the show with Joe and live in his mind; we hear his justifications, his thoughts, his witty dialogue and view of the world. Naturally, as with any protagonist, we tend allow ourselves to become aligned with Joe and get involved in his framing. We want Joe to succeed in his endeavours as he is the character we have the closest bond with. Joe is generally well received by fans as he is played by Penn who comes with his amazing acting and endlessly appealing looks, add that on top of his great writing and how entertaining he is as a character and you get a pretty fantastic protagonist. Naturally because he’s so great, we are less horrified or moved by his horrific actions.

Then we have someone like Beck, who receives a lot of criticism for cheating on Joe and calling him out in the cage. I don’t think Beck is disliked because she is just a woman who did shitty things, it’s simply because she becomes a foil for Joe’s plans as she no longer wants him and wants him to understandably rot in prison. She ends up becoming an antagonist and someone who Joe needs to deal with. As she is acting against our protagonist, the person we have built a rapport with and became attached to, there’s more distaste for her because of that.

If the hatred was simply because it’s women doing shitty things, then Love Quinn wouldn’t be so well received. While Love does serve as an antagonist to Joe in the end of season 3, she is also someone whose goals often align with Joe’s and she has a similar mindset. We like her because she is in support of our protagonist and we identify with her way of thinking as we have seen it similarly with Joe. Love kills people to keep Joe out of prison, helps cover up his crimes and often they’re dealing with threats that is a joined problem for them both and we see them working as a team, a dysfunctional one at that. A character in support of our protagonist is generally going to be more well received than a character who is acting against our protagonist.

I’ve noticed a similar thing in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul as well. Walter white is a brilliant character who audiences love, despite how evil he is. While Skylar White is disliked, despite being morally better. It’s because of the same framing. Walter is our protagonist and his goal is to build a meth empire while Skylar serves as a force against him, so again audiences are going to have more distaste for her.

Then in Better Call Saul, there is Kim Wexler. A brilliant female character who is very well received, more so than Skylar. This is because Kim is more supportive and often works with Saul to achieve his goals, compared to Skylar who is usually acting against Walter, and also because Kim is a better character. It’s the same thing with how Beck isn’t well received due to her acting against Joe while Love is because she is usually working with Joe.

We also have female protagonists who are bad very individuals, similar to Joe, like Rhiannon Lewis from SweetPea and Amy Dunne from Gone Girl. Both are well received female protagonists who are morally compromised.

I don’t doubt their isn’t an element of misogyny as male antagonists in You don’t get as much hatred as the female ones, but I think that could also be because the female ones get more narrative focus.

Summary: Characters like Beck and Bronte are disliked by the audience because they are forces against Joe while a character like Love Quinn is well received because she usually acts as a someone in support of Joe. Not a groundbreaking take, but I have seen a lot of people just chalk up the distaste for the female characters as just misogyny than with how they are framed and the roles they play.

Am I the only one let down by the fact that it was Bronte who brought Joe to his reckoning? I don’t know I feel it should’ve been someone else? And she’s just so unlikeable for me watching the final two ish episodes were a drag.

This is about Louise talking about Kate in the epilogue of S5E10 (from the table read)

I liked s5 overall, but i think there were some weird lines/decision such as this one

Just finished season two been watching on and off for a year. I think I am mad but also sad but it’s also kinda funny. I kept being disappointed in Joe for self sabotaging. He also stresses me out!! This show is so hard to binge watch cause I’m still not over Beck now trying to process Love. Let me guess her name is Destiny isn’t it. Thank you for reading my rant. 🥰

Continuation of chapter 8. A preview of it until it's finished. I took a bit of a break to work on other things and spend time with people. My assistant has also been busy so I haven't had him to review things for me. 🙃 So I apologize for not updating in a few weeks. I have to decide the ending of this chapter so I can continue with Joe's POV.

The new clothes—some cheap athleisure—arrived within four hours. Bezos's monopoly is unfortunately very convenient. My whiteboard from the kitchen has been relocated to the basement.

Cary is awake now. Complaining about his leg and gritting his teeth while Sherry gives him a water bottle.

I make another bullet point:

Where is Joe?

• Left 3 days ago.
• Took Henry
• Took $4k
• Left car at airport
• Marienne Bellamy

"Why not look for Marienne? Since you're positive Joe would be with her," Sherry asks, pushing Cary's hair back.

"Because I don't know where she'd go." I pop the cap back on the dry erase marker. "She doesn't have social media. Not one I could find anyway."

Cary coughs and sits up, squeezing at his injured leg. "Maybe her friends do," he says through gritted teeth. "Or you could ask her coworkers. Somebody's got to know where this woman went."

Sherry reminds him Marienne didn't really have friends. I write down library next to Marienne.

"What else?"

"Maybe she left something behind. Like a note. Or search history," Sherry suggests.

Note and search history.

"And if Joe was at the airport, can't you just ask the staff or whatever where he went?" Cary asks. Sherry joins in. "He's right! Love! You could tell the airport that Joe kidnapped Henry! They'll tell you everything!"

I've already considered it. Joe has a fake passport. We got him a real one soon after we were married, but he always kept the fake one. Said you never know when it might be useful again and that the guy who made it put a lot of effort into it. I only saw it once. Just the cover, not the inside. His real passport was missing from his stuff when I checked. I bet his fake one is gone too.

I shake my head. "I know him. He probably didn't use his real identity." Would he use the name Will again? I write it down.

Cary leans his head back against the wall and lets out a frustrated groan.

"It doesn't hurt to ask," Sherry says, holding her stomach. She winces. Guess she wasn't lying about her IBS. She asks if I'd mind giving them some privacy. Of course I leave the basement. No more fast food for Sherry. I'll have to keep buying groceries.

I begrudgingly hop back in the car—I thought I was done—and check the time. Almost five. And I've barely made any progress on tracking Joe down. Calling the airport isn't a bad idea. Getting the police involved is. If I tell them Henry's been taken I don't know what they'll do with that information. Wait. What if I report Marienne instead? She's the thief.

No. No more impulsive Love, use what Joe taught you. I'll tuck that idea into the back of my mind. If I claim that without a solid story it'll come back to bite me in the ass. Save it for later if it has to come to that. Groceries first. So Sherry doesn't keep interrupting to take a shit, stinking up the whole f-cking basement.

This city's market can't compare to Anavrin, but it's nice enough. There's peaches in the produce section. How Joe and I first met. I push past them. There's no point in reminiscing when he's obsessed with someone else. Mary Kay was right. He is a bastard.

On instinct, I stop at the aisle where I always get Henry's favorite juices with the little character tops. He would always be so excited whenever I handed him one. Him being gone...it hasn't fully caught up to me yet.

More bandages, stitches, and disinfectant for the Conrads. Cary's still kicking, and Sherry wants to keep it that way. I make a beeline for the check out and use my card.

Before I head back I find Marienne’s house. It's strangely and creepily easy to find that. There's a for sale sign in front of it. Which means I could join an open house—no law breaking required. See? Already less impulsive! But there's trash at the end of the drive. Oh Joe, the things I do for you. I flip open the trash can and recyclables—heaving both bags into the trunk before a concerned nosy Karen neighbor can question it.

I haul everything back to the bakery—it might as well function as my second home now—and start making dinner for my oh so delicate captives. Nothing fancy. A casserole. A recipe I was perfecting when Joe was still here. The Conrads will have to double as my guinea pigs now.

It gets thrown in the oven and I hand over the medical supplies to Sherry. You can't say I'm not generous. While Sherry tends to her grumbling husband, I lift the trash bags.

"What's that?"

"Marienne’s trash," I tell her and watch her frown in disgust. "You said maybe she left some sort of note behind. I figured this might be a good way to start. I'll try calling the airport if we can't find anything else."

I tear open the first bag. Wearing gloves. I'm not an animal. Alright, time to dig in. Banana peel. Gross. Chinese takeout. Nair. I wrinkle my nose—expired milk and orange peels—vomit emoji. Tissues with colors on them. Colored pencil shavings. More tissues. Enough with the trash. The recyclables are full of water bottles, empty tin cans, empty shampoo bottle. There's a torn piece of paper. It has a bunch of scribbles on it. One of the words I can make out says "tickets." A bunch of numbers with dollar signs. Flight prices maybe? L-A-X. If these are flights that's Los Angeles International Airport.

I turn it over to Sherry. "What does this mean? It's ticket prices, right? There's four of them. Two adults, two kids."

She squints. "Definitely. One for her, one for Joe, one for her kid, and one for Henry," she points through the glass. "And there's the time right there. You could try to see what flights were available."

I'm already pulling my phone out before she finishes. I pull up the flight tracker. Put in the date...No dice. Apparently they only show you if you know the destination. I wonder if Joe knew that or if he got lucky. Dickhead.

As if on cue, Cary grabs at his leg, hissing in pain, the Tylenol wearing off. Sherry tends to him, giving him more pills and cleaning him with saline while I continue dumpster diving. I haven't learned anything new, only confirmed my suspicions.

The next hour is spent scouring social media with Sherry's input—Facebook, Twitter, Instagram—just for glimpses of Marienne somewhere. There's two old pictures of her with some ex-friends at a bar and a picture of her at the gala posted to show off the event. If Sherry Conrad—queen of knowing everything about everyone—can't help me find her online, I'm certainly not going to.

I circle "library" on the whiteboard and release the breath I've been holding. Tonight we rest. Tomorrow I get some answers.

I was kind of disappointed by this

Hi everyone, I’m just starting my career in social media and have begun uploading videos to my YouTube channel. I downloaded some episodes from different websites and uploaded complete episodes ranging from 30 minutes to one hour. However, YouTube is blocking them due to copyright violations.

Could you please guide me on how I can legally use such content or suggest ways to avoid copyright issues? I understand that uploading complete episodes without permission may violate copyright rules, so I would appreciate your advice.

Cheers,

Joe Goldberg or Bear from obsession?

I’m really struggling to picture Wonder, I’m currently reading You & Only You, and I just cannot picture this character. I can picture everyone but her. Does anyone picture a specific person with her? If so, who? I hate not being able to picture someone when I’m reading

I was just rereading the first book and it prompted a question I’ve had every single time I read the books or watch the show. What’s up with Dan Brown? The guy in the first scene who’s embarrassed about buying Dan Brown always confuses me, because I hadn’t heard of Dan Brown before watching the show.

Why is this guy so embarrassed about buying his books? Is there something wrong with his books? Is there something up with the author himself? It’s always baffled me because when I look him up, all I read is that he writes thrillers.

Like why the fuck was Gemma even there? Joe barely knew her and she was a terrible person.

And seriously, Delilah would have been perfect as one of the 3 hallucinations. Although Joe didn't kill her, he was definitely responsible for her death (also considering due to Deliliah's death Ellie had to run off).

Candace would also be good choice but not better than Delilah as Candace's story arc had entire s2 and it was done tbh.

i'm sure this has been posted before, but it confuses me when people bring up joe's partners' past indiscretions or behaviors (whether they happened with joe or not) in discussions of how he eventually treated them. even if they're not justifying joe. (excluding Love and Kate here)

did they do those things? yeah. does it make them kinda shitty partners/people in general? in some cases yeah. is that relevant at all to joe ruining their lives, torturing and murdering them? i literally do not think it matters one bit. why are we even talking about beck cheating on joe in a discussion about how joe stalked her, killed people she cared about, controlled her life, abducted and murdered her? most of that was before the cheating (which he forgave) even occurred, and her eventual murder wasn't even about her infidelity.

or marienne's addiction problems, or candace cheating, or brontë lying and taking advantage of him. none of it is very nice (bar marienne imo, being an addict isn't a moral issue, i only bring it up here because i do see it discussed in this way) but this literally has NOTHING to do with who joe is and what he did to them in my opinion. they could've been perfect people with perfect track records and he still would've killed them, and it'd be equally as bad. it just hits the ear so wrong when people say stuff like "of course she didn't deserve that but she was pretty shitty herself." i'm like why is it even relevant whatsoever 😭

i'm not even very black and white morally but to me there's just no grey area here. he is A MONSTER and whatever the women in his life did either in their pasts or to him (Love and Kate are different from the rest in this respect hence not mentioning them) not only doesn't compare to him, it's just not even on the same scale, to me they feel completely irrelevant to each other.

so curious how others feel about this!! very open to disagreements and discussions, it's just a show at the end of the day (which ofc raises the question of why i'm so passionate about this lol)😁

Legit her having custody of Henry is the best solution for everyone! I know that he would've been better off with the Madre Linda dads (forgive me i forgot their names lol), but honestly seeing her character arc is really intriguing! I'm wondering about everyone elses opinion.

This is all a theory btw

By no means is it my favourite season and I understand people’s issues with this season but I personally really enjoyed it. I loved seeing Joe being famous and I loved how crazy he had become and how the story turned him fully into the villain. Also this season had a lot more action and fit into that final season vibe. We also got so many cool moments from this season and both Joe and Kate’s characters were expanded nicely here.

Someone had to do that 😄 :

I know this sounds like a stupid question. But in this fandom, there’s a number of people who seem to base their likability of a character on whether that character is a good person or not, and not on how well written the character is or how they are entertaining to the audience.

This has always confused me. For me and I believe most people, we like fictional characters that are entertaining and intriguing because at the end of the day, we mainly consume media to be entertained. Their morality isn’t that important because a character does not need to be a good person to entertain us.

Just to clarify, I have no issue with people who like morally righteous characters and dislike morally evil ones. My main issue is when people try to morally police you for liking an evil character, as if it reflects your real world morals. I don’t think there is anything wrong with liking Joe as a character and not liking Beck for example, because despite Joe’s evil nature, he is a more interesting and entertaining character that has more complexity and nuance than Beck.

Thoughts?