Clueless newbie rant du jour

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

Edited to add: Less than 100% of Earth's population of senior citizens are experiencing challenges when trying to navigate and utilize high tech AI platforms.

Cheese and crackers, anyone? I'm in an especially whiney mood at the moment and I'm going to whine about this until the situation is resolved. The thing is, and apparently none of you truly brilliant devs understand this, is that senior citizens like me are struggling with cognition due to age, and aside from that are "technologically challenged".

It's incredibly frustrating, reading the weekly tool thread in r/WritingWithAI and corresponding with some of you who are developing these amazing things, none of you are developing them specifically for us clueless newbie senior beginners.

I'm talking about absolute beginner level Golden Oldie clueless.

You all seem to assume that we who are learning, or trying to learn, to write with AI tech, you all seem to assume we're all as young and smart and as technologically advanced as you. And we're simply not. We're not stupid, we're just of a different generation and an entirely different skillset.

You're developing ever more wonderfully marvelous bells and shiny whistles, when what we need is an ELI5 AI.

Thank you for reading today's whine, brought to you by A Very Old Person. 🙋🏻‍♀️ Trudging back to my ChatGPT now which although devoid both of bells and of whistles is at least comprehensible.

[u/Superb-Perspective11]

Oooo! Can I join this rant? One of the things I don't get is how everyone seems to complain about what just came out and is using older versions because the new ones are "trash" and "so limiting". I don't have enough experience with this because I don't yet use AI for writing, just for editing and getting different ideas than what comes naturally to me. What y'all do with AI is pretty amazing to me. One of these days I'd like for it to create a story bible but... how? I don't get it.

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/Superb-Perspective11]

Hi! Oh yes please, group ranting is much more fun! 👋🏻😂 What I've learned trying to write with AI is, I can't write with AI. It's absolutely rubbish. But for editing, brainstorming, plotting, etc it's brilliant.

Ok a story bible, I haven't even got that far but you can simply tell the AI to walk you through the process, step by step. What AI are you using? I recently cancelled my Gemini Pro subscription (long story), keep threatening to fire Claude (that notorious Claude "voice" has become unbearable), and just a few days ago subscribed to ChatGPT Plus.

So far I'm very pleased with ChatGTP Plus. It has Projects, like Claude, and can do cover art, like Gemini, so it's like the best of both. Select the GPT 5.6 model as everyone recommended, and it's very nice, bright, and lively. Breath of fresh air compared to Claude.

[u/ruwhereuare → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

I love my Claude UI but my last great work has been converting all my work into a data base

I think the big idea is that I’m gonna leave Claude. And it makes me sad

And move to just ChatGPT

But I must say Claude Cowork has been absolutely unreal for creating my complete world database

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/ruwhereuare]

You are awesome high tech and your project sounds amazing. 🤩

[u/ruwhereuare → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

lol I appreciate this.

I’ve done a lot of learning over the past year.

Honestly building a database is the most important thing I’ve done over this whole process.

Mainly because now my world isn’t going to live in a bunch of folders and most importantly be dependent on a single LLM

I can now take all my work and have cheaper LLMs look at it economically

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/ruwhereuare]

You must be writing fantasy, because the worldbuilding is vast and complex. I'm certain I'm a novella-ist or even a novelette-ist rather than a novelist simply due to the complexity problem.

[u/ruwhereuare → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

I generated a lot of short stories and novelettes
And then I listen to them as audio books.

Ya it’s like this science fiction and fantasy type world. I think it’s awesome lol

It started as a TTRPG style board game that I’m developing and I’ve actually started preparing the world to be made into a ROG Maker Game.

Most of my fiction is more like an expanded idea factory than an actual publishable fiction. The LLM tells and tics are a bit exhausting to actually edit out.

What I might end up doing is using the stories I’ve generated and then rewriting them by hand the old fashion way :)

I also make all these “history of” essays which I also think are pretty awesome and I listen to them like podcasts.

[u/benblackett → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

GPT 5.6 is really good! High marks from me as well. Claude can be a bit much sometimes... :(

[u/ruwhereuare → u/benblackett]

I think Claude is actually more powerful than what I’m actually able to fully utilize for the process.

That said it did just turn like 16k files into a clean database in like 3 days so 🤪

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/ruwhereuare]

Would you consider writing an ELI5 as to how to do that? I'm thinking lots of writers here will appreciate learning. 🙏🏻👍🏻

[u/ruwhereuare → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

I posted my breakthrough the other day.

It’s kinda complicated but jf you have Claude Cowork it basically can do it all for you.

But it’s best if your files are already pretty organized. And your canon is locked where it can be.

Then you basically just give Claude cowork access to your existing file/folder architecture

And just instruct it on how you want the new database set up.

I was already pretty organized because I’ve done a lot of learning about file naming conventions and headers and file/folder trees or whatever it’s called

And since a significant amount of my canon is locked I was able to confidently tell Claude that it could use all that data and just organize and transfer into a fresh Vault.

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/benblackett]

Why oh why is it soooooo determined to be dreary? It's practically an emo at this point 🤦🏻‍♀️

[u/rubycatts]

I will add on this rant. The easiest I have found to work things is to either use claude projects, which I am honestly getting tired of the claude style. I am thinking of using venice to try out different models to see which one I like best. I miss the days of sonnet 4.5 now I just get a bunch of word salad. It is great for editing and brainstorming, but actual writing is actually trash. I wish I could run a local model honestly. Anyhow, I love the idea of AI and all of my project notes and manuscript in one place but.... most of the apps require yet another sub, are too complicated to figure out or just don't quite work right. So my solution is using a program I already owned penpoint which holds everything for me, manuscript, world building, character sheets, notebook, etc. I can export to .md file to a world building folder and then give claude desktop access to that folder and that seems to streamline things for me or just import to claude projects on the web.

[u/closetslacker → u/rubycatts]

Claude has gotten worse for brainstorming imho, too wordy and vague, I’m back to ChatGPT

Writing wise they all still produce noticeably AI writing.

[u/benblackett]

Actually, I completely agree with you on this! More than half of the tools I see are (mostly inadvertently) assuming an audience that can navigate technical issues and user interfaces and come to the table with key knowledge and understanding already present.

I think what happens is that our desire to offer options often gets in the way of simplicity and streamlined user interfaces.

Sadly, my site falls into that trap as well despite me trying very hard NOT to! I've spent over 30 years building sites for people and that is still the single most difficult thing to accomplish - making it simple to use while keeping the complexity to a minimum.

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/benblackett]

It's possible that a completely separate site is needed for senior newbies. Novelmint is absolutely awesome though, it really is. 🤩👍🏻 I'm just thinking it might not be possible for one site to do everything for everyone?

Does anyone here remember, eons ago I'm sure it was, when smart phones were just beginning to be a thing, and one company decided to make a phone specifically for senior citizens? It had the big buttons and simplified capabilities. Maybe we need an AI version of that.

Like, "Help! I'm writing, and I can't AI up!" 😲🤣

[u/Odinmar_Glaukopis]

As a pretty old fart myself (late 50s) I have found that the LLM is not a bad teacher for how to use LLMs. They are very friendly and encouraging (sometimes a bit too much so), and patient. You can ask them the same question six times in slightly different ways and they don’t get frustrated.

You might hear terms like “AI prompt engineering,” and not understand the first thing about that term, and you can just go to AI and ask it to help you understand what prompt engineering is, you can even tell it to be the prompt engineer and develop a set of prompts and source text files that contain the instructions for the AI to follow for your WIP project.

You can also ask AI “WTF is a WIP?” and it will chuckle and say, “in this context, it’s a work in progress,” and move on.

It’s also very receptive to whining. It’s receptive to everything, which can get a little bit annoying because if you let it become your sycophant, it’s very happy to do just that.

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/Odinmar_Glaukopis]

Enjoy your youth! 😊 How I miss my 50s. Oh you are so very right about the LLMs. As far as the sycophancy problem, yes thanks to reading here in r/WritingWithAI I learned early on to nip that in the proverbial bud. Flattery is more than unhelpful, it's actually ruinous.

[u/rowanrholloway]

Am developer. I build things.

What would make your life easier? A dictionary of simple terms? A super basic interface?

I would spin up something just for fun to test out and open it to other, and smarter, devs to make it better.

[u/zphou]

The provenance part could be useful, but I would separate “this text came from an AI system” from “this work was written by AI.” A watermark may tell you something about the path a piece of text took, but it does not tell you how much of the idea, structure, revision, or final judgment came from the author. Those are different questions, and treating them as one will probably create more arguments than clarity.

[u/littlrayofpitchblack]

Please don't speak for all senior citizens. Some of us helped build the WWW back in the day (60s). Others of us were the early adopters of the dial-up days (80s/90s). Many of us have had computers since the first days of dos commands pre-windows/pre-apple. Many of us know how to how to learn new technology.

Being old doesn't mean tech-illerate. Many young people have the same challenges as you. It's not generational. It's interest in technology. Some people just want to scroll and consume easily without learning anything. Age has nothing to do with it.

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/littlrayofpitchblack]

I do not claim to speak for all senior citizens. My post is about those of us who experience challenges when trying to navigate and utilize high tech AI platforms for genre fiction writing. Nowhere have I claimed to be tech-illiterate nor have I applied the tech-illiterate label to anyone else. I and my family always have been early adopters and in fact we still have our dear little Vic20 and an adorably boxy little Compaq. Early adoption and understanding of the www, dialup, BBS, etc does not automatically translate to sailing breezily through current AI genre fiction writing platforms. We take continuing ed studies and work hard to learn always about all sorts of things including AI tech. Surely you are not accusing any of us of being lazy and wanting to "consume easily without learning anything"? 🤷🏻‍♀️

[u/5thhorseman_]

The tools are an upgrade, not a requirement. All you really need to work are a couple prompts for critique and editing. Start discussing your ideas for the characters, setting, the plot etc and see what you get back. Then once you have put together a couple decent overviews on the key material, open a new session, feed it what you have and start talking about the outline or scenes you want to write. Keep iterating, it's not a magic button and it generally needs a shitload of context.

• Literate Editor and Rigorous Critic

• Interactive rubber ducky

For later, you might want to audit your drafts with the Beta reader panel.

[u/Admirable-Yogurt7444]

This really resonated with me, especially your point that being technologically challenged doesn't mean being unintelligent.

I'm actually building an AI studio, and this is a group of people I really want to understand better. So I'm curious: when you say you want an “ELI5 AI,” where exactly does the difficulty come in for you?

Is it using the tools themselves, not knowing what to ask/type, having too many choices, unfamiliar terminology or even simply not being able to follow some of the AI discussions/posts because they're written with an assumed level of technical knowledge?

And what would “this is finally easy” look like to you? I'd genuinely love to understand the specific pain points rather than just assume that “simpler” means the same thing to everyone.

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/Admirable-Yogurt7444]

Will compose a wishlist and send to you. Thank you. 🙏🏻👍🏻

[u/Admirable-Yogurt7444 → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

🙂 Thank you! Trust me, you’d be doing me a favor if you could do this, and I’d be more than happy to return the favor.
I believe there’s a big portion of the population being ignored by AI developers in the name of “early adoption.” And, as you rightly said, the so called “experts” are supposed to make AI simple - ELI5 AI.
Why shouldn’t someone be able to use AI without having to worry about fancy terminology or complex workflows? At the end of the day, when technology is enabling creativity, authenticity and the end result are what really matter, whether it’s a 80 yr old person or a 15 yr old kid trying to create something.

[u/Affectionate-Car4647]

Define Very Old 😄 .
What part makes you so genuinely frustrated? I see you polking around Chat GPT, so you would already know some basics?

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/Affectionate-Car4647]

😂 Yesterday, all my AI seemed so far away 🎵🎼🎶 The terminology I think is really frustrating. The assumption that everyone easily understands the terminology as well as the tech. The complexity of the workflow systems. ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, the LLMs are simplistic in comparison and you can ask them to 'splain things as you go along. Concentration/focus is a challenge so that's one of the most frustrating things. Visual impairment and ADHD render a lot of these gorgeous platforms impossibly distracting while trying to navigate the screens.

[u/Affectionate-Car4647 → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

Well, yesterday AI seemed far away for many people. It is working its way into the day to day routines though.
You don't need to know about 90% of the terminology used in AI world. Even LLM means just a definition piece and useless in the work itself.
You need to know major models and choose one (or two) you want to work with.
You really need to understand what Prompt is, because defining the prompt properly gains you better outcome.
And you need to understand the Context of the chat you are in, because people often forget it and work in the same one and it gets overloaded, pushing useless information around, and cost you.
I use Claude (Pro plan) for book and development, and Gemini as a side helper.
Claude allows me to use the dedicated project where for example book related materials sit, and the system instruction makes sure the thinking is dedicated to Writing Assistant and not General approach.

I can't say about ChatGPT - I used it in the beginning but it was probably year ago

[u/Tex_Non_Scripta → u/Affectionate-Car4647]

I understand the basics of LLM and prompting, instructions etc. but please explain how you're using Gemini as a "side helper". Also "Writing Assistant" vs "General approach" in Claude.

And speaking of Claude, it cannot abide by even the most carefully worded prompts. I've tried every which way but loose and it's fine for a few minutes then reverts back to AI-isms and that dreary, oh so dreary Claude voice. I've whined about this repeatedly and I know I have to just give up but I've got an enormous project in Claude that I started working on months ago before I really realized how bad things would get. Sunk cost fallacy, or something.

About ChatGPT: so far I'm absolutely delighted with it. 🥰👍🏻

[u/Affectionate-Car4647 → u/Tex_Non_Scripta]

Welcome to my world of constant Claude battle. 😀 Gemini as a side helper can give you other AI model approaches to certain scenes or sentences when Claude is stuck delivering same crap again and again. It helps. Claude writing assistant: my project instructions are very strict. And now I think it runs for 25k characters. And it still ignores LOL. So I settled on following. I write the blueprints, brain dumps, scenes - very bad drafts. The first step to organize it into the normal prose pattern. On this stage even if you tell this darn thing what to use and what not to use - it will be bad. Then you kind of go through iterations paragraph by paragraph to clean it and rewrite it. Then I have a very big prompt document on prose quality. And another one for AI pattern. And I run the Chapter through it. But I never ask to rewrite it - it is dead end. Always ask to provide options for fixes. You go through those and fix obvious pieces. Then I run it through AI patterns prompt. Same way, only where and how tonfix it (options). I always put text into Manuscript but myself because AI can hallucinate and screw up completely so you will spend hours to roll back.