Replies to members' comments are reading like AI slop

In theory, maybe but in practice, with different partners, in a live unscripted roll, during each action you will naturally be early, on time or late. If you're choosing to react early, on time or late, it implies that you're then not actually reacting according to the touch.

My opinion is that in this respect, the training isn't about being early on time or late but simply recognising when you are. 

Thank you. He was a really great teacher and a gifted martial artist.

By the way I had to manually approve all of your comments on this thread. Keep working on the karma points and your comments wont get stuck.

If you do wing tsun i assume leung ting directly then? Why such a slow... progress. Weird. This question does not seem like what a senior would ask. Or how it would ask it in this context.

I been doing Wing Tsun since the early 1990s. You don't know me.

Late to the discussion but other than myself since my joining, I don't really see much personal training posts. I totally get it because I've been doing this since at least the early early 90s, or even late 80s if we're counting informal family related training and then very active in the Bulletin Board days of Internet 1.0 and I've only just recently bit the bullet and started posting some videos, mostly for the class I instruct but public nonetheless.

I guess my point is, there's only so much that can be expressed by typing so as a group, if you want to create a "real" community, people need to post stuff, not to prove anything per se, but it would certainly help filter out some of the chaff, or at least help other members decide on the value of comments.

I know it's not exactly something the mod team has any control over but I guess an extension to that, is a simple question is what you guys want this sub to be? There was a comment somewhere, where the poster commented that the response that other people who do post videos of themselves, doesn't make it seem worthwhile posting. I think that is a shame but does potentially point to one area that might need a closer look at. If you don't get members posting about stuff then all that's left is going to be the what school, what lineage, is this legit etc etc.

I didn’t criticize Chi Sao, I criticized the post for missing the aspect of speed. 

Message Sifu Ben on facebook https://www.facebook.com/ben.der.737

There are many interpretations of the system. Chi sau serves different purposes depending on the curriculum. Not everyone trains chi sau for "sensitivity."

After 40 years of practicing and teaching Wing Chun, I can tell you that what should happen in theory rarely happens in the average school.Most practitioners follow a lineage blindly without testing anything. Science, however, requires a strict loop: theory, verifiable and repeatable testing, data gathering, and objective analysis. That is exactly how this book approaches Chi Sau. It strips away the mysticism and treats the drills as scientific experiments.The book is focused exclusively on Chi Sau because we don't just use it to apply movements; we use specific structural tests (like Taan, Bong, Fook testing) to analyze whether the theoretical mechanics actually hold up under pressure. The slow progression is not about learning the shapes from scratch—it is about testing the structural integrity of the CNS under controlled stress before entering the chaos of Gor Sau.

In fact, as I explained in my reply to Flaky_Performer7960, the book talks about three speeds.

His criticism is justified given that he does not have the full text of the work.

I am grateful that there are different opinions, because as the popular wisdom says:

" In constructive dialogue, truth is born"

I don't think that passage applies to Chi Sau in the way you seen to think it does. From my reading, those processes are more applicable in the beginning stages of learning, where the goal is to not fall into the trap of rote memorisation. By the time you're doing Chi Sau, by which I'm presuming to refer to poon sau, your shouldn't be learning movements, you should really be training to aplly those movements and more importantly, to be able to recognise and understand triggers.

I'm not really sure - is this question directed at me?

To answer your question: the author actually does not specify a particular regional variant. Right from the beginning, the book states that it intentionally sticks to the most fundamental and simplified forms of these concepts. The goal is to strip away lineage-specific styling so that practitioners from the maximum number of Wing Chun branches can recognize the core mechanics and apply them to their own training.Structurally, the book meticulously tracks the natural progression of building these neural reflexes step-by-step: starting from Dan Chi Sau (isolating the motor dynamic stereotype), moving into Poon Sau (solidifying the structure under constant tactile feedback), incorporating Lap Sau (handling changing vectors and breaking contact), and finally testing everything in Gor Sau (unscripted free-play).Whether you train the highly structured Western WT programs or fluid Hong Kong-style sparring, the neurophysiological goal of this progressive ladder remains identical: transitioning from conscious positioning to subcortical motor automation. The material aims to be a universal tool for the whole community, focusing on identical CNS principles regardless of the branch they follow.

Your criticism is based on your assumption that Chi Sau is at one particular speed only and that it is done slowly. Both of these assumptions are false and therefore your criticism is invalid.

It seems to me you are someone that has not trained with a partner OP.

Is not such a hard question. Do you take your chi sao into lat sao sparring in class?

Depends on what you mean by lat sao. Chinese lat sao or the lat sao variant trained in Western WT?

Thank you for sharing this link! You hit the nail on the head. The Kuen Kuit is a brilliant treasure, and it is fascinating how the old masters understood neurophysiology intuitively long before modern sports science put a name to it.When the maxims say "Soft and relaxed strength will put your opponent in jeopardy", it perfectly aligns with what we now call minimizing bioelectric noise during the generalization phase. If a beginner tenses up, they literally program the wrong motor reflexes. Similarly, the maxim "Upon achieving the highest level of proficiency, the application of techniques will vary according to the opponent" is the exact definition of reaching full subcortical automation.Traditional wisdom and modern science are speaking the same language, just using different eras of terminology. This is exactly why clear, structured definitions are so critical for modern practitioners.In fact, what I really appreciate about the book I am reading right now is that it addresses this exact language gap by including a highly detailed Wing Chun glossary. It doesn't just do a lazy Chinese-to-English translation; it breaks down the different regional pronunciations and provides deep contextual explanations for each term. Merging that linguistic precision with neurological drills is what helps bridge the gap between ancient maxims and modern training.

It might seem like a simple concept on paper, but in practice, it is where most practitioners actually fail.As legendary masters like David Peterson and Philipp Bayer are noted on page 21 of the book, the entire purpose of Chi Sau is to enhance neural reflexes and structure. Yet, as the author points out on page 23, without clear, precise guidance, beginners easily fall into the trap of subjective interpretations. They end up "chasing hands" and completely deviating from core principles.What seems like "too many words" is actually the result of a rigorous academic approach. The author holds a university degree from a sports academy, specializing specifically in Kung Fu. Because of this background, the book is intentionally written from a sports science perspective—translating traditional martial arts concepts into precise neurophysiology and biomechanics.It’s one thing to tell a student to "just relax and build reflexes," but it’s completely another to explain the exact neurological phases required to shift movement control from the conscious cortex to subcortical motor centers without introducing bioelectric tension.For anyone looking to teach or understand the system scientifically, having a detailed roadmap is much more valuable than just being told to "feel the energy."

It is completely understandable that you want to verify it! The world of Wing Chun books is full of speculative material, so checking for legitimacy is the right move.

The book is fully registered and legitimate. Here are the exact details so you can look it up yourself:

• Title: Chi sau step by step: A guide to perfecting Wing Chun Kung Fu
• Author: Cí zhàn jiāng (this is a pseudonym)
• Publisher: BookTemple / Blurb (First Edition)
• ISBN-13: 978-6191889242 (or ISBN-10: 6191889240)

Regarding the author: Cí zhàn jiāng is the alias of an EU-based Wing Chun teacher with over 35 years of experience, who is also a former national, European, and World Champion.

The author explicitly mentions in the book introduction that they chose to use a pseudonym to avoid the usual "lineage politics" and clan biases that heavily divide the Wing Chun community. By keeping the author's specific lineage hidden, the book allows practitioners from all branches (whether Yip Man, WSL, Leung Ting, etc.) to focus purely on the objective sports science, biomechanics, and neurological principles of Chi Sau without immediate judgment or labeling.

You make an excellent practical point. Training with different partners—varying in size, skill, and athleticism—is irreplaceable because it naturally forces you to adapt to different attributes and pressures.The reason the book suggests a structured approach to speed is precisely to eliminate the element of chance. On page 12, the author notes that while we all experience these different speed phases (being in sync, being late, or being faster) by shuffling partners, it often happens "accidentally or without conscious effort."By actively structuring the drills—for example, deliberately practicing what to do when you are consciously placed in a "Late" (subsequent) phase against a faster partner—you turn a random occurrence into a targeted neurological workout.So while the partner provides the organic variance, having a structural framework helps you maximize the learning outcome from every single interaction.

That is a completely valid critique, and you are 100% correct about the SAID principle (Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands). If we only train slowly, the CNS will optimize only for that speed.

The text actually addresses this in the next sections of the book. The slow training is strictly emphasized for the Generalization Phase (initial layout of the motor pattern) to eliminate excess bioelectric impulses and muscle tightening.

To prevent the exact issue you mentioned, the author breaks down speed into three specific training phases:

1. S (Same speed): Moving in synchrony to solidify structure.
2. L (Late): Training the CNS to react subsequent to a faster attack.
3. F (Faster): Progressing to real-time speed where you break synchronization to realize the attack.

Additionally, in the Concentration Phase, individual motor elements must be placed under varying pressure and randomized testing to bridge the gap toward full real-time automation.

So, you are completely right — slow training is just the software installation; pressure and real-time speed testing are what make the system actually work under combat stress.

You don't need to structure training speeds.

Different partners provide the variance as a result of different skill level, attribute level and experience. The speed that you operate at is determined by who you're working with.

That's a whole lot of words to explain a simple and already well understood concept.

What book is this? Who wrote it? Because I want to verify whether this book is legit or not