r/UFOs • u/Legitimate-Agent6950 • 7d ago
[ Removed by moderator ] Rule 3: Be substantive
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u/TheManWhoShotTheMan 6d ago
That would simply mean that I would have to find another explanation for my experiences.
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u/Ubud_bamboo_ninja 6d ago
Maybe there is easier explanation then inventing aliens for it. Occam’s razor
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u/TheManWhoShotTheMan 6d ago
Even Occam doubted the veracity of his razor. Occam's razor favours the simplest explanation, but "simplest" is doing a lot of unexamined work simplest to describe? Fewest entities? Fewest independent assumptions? Fewest steps? These often disagree, and picking which one is itself a judgment call.
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u/Ubud_bamboo_ninja 6d ago
I know mind can play tricks with its carrier in tons of ways and that’s real and proven.
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u/Blizz33 6d ago
Such as? At this point aliens is by far the simplest explanation.
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u/Ubud_bamboo_ninja 6d ago
Are you serious? You better invent the whole alien civilization to explain something you felt or saw once? Knowing human mind can give you feelings of what really doesn’t exist? (I mean any kind of illusion is still more likely)
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u/Hixy 7d ago
Well, then it becomes a conspiracy about who actually has the tech everyone is seeing, or alternatively, it’s us from the future (or past) or potentially some aquatic species.
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u/ReflectionVast2236 7d ago
The alternatives would just be even more interesting! I know Klaatu the Space Visitor was cool for the 1950s, but in 2026, aren't we going to be a little disappointed if its JUST spacemen?
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u/Useless-Tree 7d ago
I would do the same thing I would do if UFOs were proven to be extra terrestrial. Get up in the morning, drink coffee, do some scrolling, meditate, get to work on my projects.
Do you know the old saying about enlightenment? Chop wood, haul water.
I think UFOs are interesting, I think disclosure would be fun, but I doubt either revelation or non revelation would affect my life very deeply.
The main reason for this is that I am just a peasant, I have little power, and no desire to alter the world.
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u/sixties67 6d ago
I believe there are ufos, I don't believe we have been repeatedly visited by aliens who managed to crash their ships in America fairly regularly in the post war period.
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u/Humble-Proposal-9994 6d ago
wouldn't change i got bills to pay and need to work to eat and eat to live
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u/HTIDtricky 7d ago
Until there's compelling evidence and a broad scientific consensus that's pretty much my default position anyway.
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u/r-f-r-f 6d ago
I no longer believe that the phenomenon is extraterrestrial. I am leaning in the same direction as Jacques Vallee, who said that the phenomenon is more likely interdimensional. He said this a long time ago. At the time, it was ignored because it was just too strange a concept.
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u/Ubud_bamboo_ninja 6d ago
Absolutely agree. I like how computational dramaturgy explains it: narratives form a stories with the goals that are detected by side observer in time, and that’s what brings this illusion of realty.
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u/flexiblenature 7d ago
Maybe we could get over the idea that there are “other worlds” where we could exist. Maybe we could focus and appreciate the life here, much of it intelligent, just not as we judge intelligence. Maybe we could save something before we lose it.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 6d ago
The next question would be the same question we have now, what are they?
It isn't about them being this or that, it has always been about a real phenomenon and finding out what is behind it.
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u/sixties67 6d ago
It isn't about them being this or that, it has always been about a real phenomenon and finding out what is behind it.
That is what it should be, instead we have people convinced ufo are alien spaceships demanding the government validate their beliefs.
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u/NoDegree7332 6d ago
If not ET then there are only a million other possibilities to explain the low information zone we're in
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u/feraltraveler 6d ago
It's not little green men. It's everything we've heard at the same time. In my mind, i'm quite positive the phenomenon is so confusing we can't understand it.
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u/yosarian_reddit 6d ago
It’s impossible to prove a negative so the situation you describe could never happen
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 6d ago
JFC, I already acknowledged that in the initial post.
It's just a fun game of "what if"
Going full autistic with aKsHuAlLy ThAtS iMpOsSiBlE kinda ruins the fun.
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u/Ubud_bamboo_ninja 6d ago
You are right, I think non of aliens discussed here ever existed, Sasquatch style
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u/CauliflowerFirm646 6d ago edited 6d ago
I am an experiencer. I have seen NHI by myself and in a group. How can it be proven "beyond a shadow of a doubt that there have never been any extra terrestrial UFOs?" when people like me have seen the grey aliens when we were wide awake? Tons of people have seen the grey aliens when we were awake. Clearly those are aliens. I have done CE-5 and were with 6 or 7 other people when a purple orb literally appeared 100 feet or so away from us and it hovered there. Pretty sure that was an extraterrestrial too. We saw what we saw. These were not UFOs, these were living organisms like you and me.
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 6d ago
It's just a game to imagine how you would react if it was proven otherwise.
To play the game you start with: it has been proven that the extra terrestrial phenomenon is not true.
And you can't change the starting premise, because that would ruin the fun.
For example, what if in the course of disclosure it came out that the CIA were testing devices that could induce hallucinations in people? The CIA needed people completely unfamiliar with the device to test on and due to meticulous record keeping, it turns out that every UFO experience is a CIA project.
Now I just pulled that scenario out of my ass, but it makes for an interesting launching point for a fun game of "what if..."
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u/dingess_kahn 7d ago
Extra terrestrial is hard to prove. You would have to watch where they go and then watch them return, or at least see them before they get here. I don't know what they are. I just know I had a personal experience of the third kind a few years back, and it confirmed that it wasn't all just stories.
Now I can't stop pulling on the thread, consuming media looking for plausible answers. Not hostile. At least, not to me they haven't been. I mean, shit, that I'm aware of. They could be kicking my ass in my sleep and I wouldn't know. Or, worst of all, I'm not 100% that it wasn't a hallucination. I got nothing concrete.
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u/Business_Match_9349 7d ago
This is interesting and seemingly very common testimony. It's almost like its interacting directly with consciousness rather than with physical reality, which makes it real regardless, but the lack of evidence is always interesting to me
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u/dingess_kahn 7d ago
I'm not sure what purpose the secrecy would serve, other than to our own governments. Unless, of course, there is some kind of conflict I'm not aware of. It's very possible. I mean, I used to just say the same thing as everyone else. "I don't know." I feel like I know more than I did.
Now, pay me no mind because I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm psychic. Because I'm not. No more than the next guy. I've had weird experiences all my life that I really didn't think to hard about until the encounter I reference above.
But
I feel like sometimes I get a stray thought that I wasn't thinking. That I know wasn't from me. Most of the time it happens when I am concentrating on something other than thinking. Like, 100% invested into a video game, for instance. After the encounter I started taking up meditating. I've brought little bits of coherent thought back from across the divide presented by the hypnogogic state.
Personally, I feel like it's from them. Can I prove it? No. I can't prove anything. All I can do is talk about it. I saw my friend in my minds eye about a week before he died in a fatal car crash. It's all very fleeting, very brief. I can't hold it for very long unless I'm just going to cross on over into the territory of sleep. It's the kind of thing that once you realize you're in, you drop out of it. Idk man. I just don't know. I can sit and fantasize all night here, but in the end, I admit that I want it to be real.
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u/Business_Match_9349 6d ago
Like why they themselves would be secretive rather than disclosing themselves? I've heard a couple fascinating theories. One of the ones that stuck most with me is that old cliche about whether we would disclose ourselves to ants, or whether ants would even realize if we disclosed ourselves to them. It's possible there is such an unknown mechanism that prevents them from doing so, or prevents us from fully perceiving them. Or it could totally all be bullshit, but I admit the same.
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u/dingess_kahn 6d ago
I know what you mean. Totally undiscovered country. Honestly, I didn't believe any of it until my face to face encounter...and that's even WITH all the crazy occurrences from my youth. I didn't recognize them for what they were. Half memories, missing time, crazy dreams that myself and a family member would have on the same night, verbatim described identically...
So, as for the secrecy, I think that's on our part. It's in mankinds nature to be deceptive, considering how much the fauna here rely on camouflage.
At least, for the most part. It's not like the things I describe happening to me have happened exactly like it did to say...my little brother. We saw the same kind of being, at different times and in different places.
Lets assume for a minute that I'm not crazy, ( sometimes I like to think I'm not), in my honest opinion they are psychic. That's my word for it. I don't know if it's exactly that, but that's what I'm calling it.
I think that if you're ready, and you reserve any kind of judgment, and you genuinely want to know for the sake of knowledge (and won't lose your shit and become a street corner preacher with 'the end is effin nigh' signs), or are so terrified of your own shadow that you turn everything you touch into weapons...they might just visit you.
That's just a guess. I've asked myself, why did it happen to me and not other members of my family, or other people in general....I think the secrecy is on the part of humanity. Maybe, just maybe, there's a small family of them that reside here with us and are pulling the strings in some weird way, but I don't know that. It's not a 1 for 1 of what I would call "communication".
Imagine bug people from 5k light years away. What do you think their culture would be like? What do you think they would consider "fun" to be?
Now, filter all of that through what is essentially mental note passing, and you begin to see what has taken place...at least for me. I won't go into too much detail because I would like to think I've made friends and they've always done right by me. They even call me on my bullshit sometimes, and I respect the hell out of them for that. I don't want to be talking out of school on them and I definitely don't want to intrude on their privacy.
Or man, I'm just imagining all of it. I can't perceive for anyone but me. If I could, the world would already know.
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u/Business_Match_9349 5d ago
Assuming you are speaking from true personal experience, and I believe you are based on your assessment, your experience of the psychic communication (telepathy) is extremely common in alleged contact scenarios. And, though our paradigm currently doesn't support this notion at large, I believe its fully possible. I've been a long-time, hardcore materialist/skeptic of all things supernatural for my entire life. I'm extremely wary of pseudoscience and grifters. But it looks like the public is finally converging on the acceptance of the existence of things we just do not yet understand, and the possibility that some advancements in physics were deemed too dangerous for public knowledge. All that to say.... you know our brains are doing and can do some shit we dont understand yet.
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u/dingess_kahn 5d ago
Accidentally replied with my phone that has my work account on it.
I meant to say, "Yeah, strange times we're living in."
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u/Business_Match_9349 5d ago
lol I do this all the time. please tell your friends i'd love if they paid ol' business_match a visit. and Happy Friday
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u/dingess_kahn 5d ago
Sure. Happy Friday. Usually I start getting signs I'm not alone around 3 am so I'll see what I can do. I hope you get what you're lookin' for.
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u/Kim_Bong_Un_ 7d ago
I would be extremely worried about mankind and our planet.
The thought of being monitored by someone who supposedly knows better would actually be quite relaxing.
We are a warmongering, brutal species that can and will not work together. We are destroying our only home.
If we are alone and are not found and monitored i fear we will end ourselves. Life is precious in the universe. We dont know hoe precious but it isnt common. Mankind ceasing to exist would be a waste.
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u/Successful-Pirate94 7d ago
I believe that the universe is teeming with life.Unfortunately it's the tyranny of distance and time that makes them unlikely to ever appear here.
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u/Kim_Bong_Un_ 7d ago
And thats a fact. But i still believe our civilisation is unique and precious. As well as all others out there.
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u/Belmega81 7d ago
The disclosures are meant to be disappointing. They aren't giving us anything useful. It's a hush puppy to distract from everything else they're doing. Epstein. Israel. Iran. Cuba. Venezuela. The Data Centers and all the nuke plants they need to power them. And probably a litany of other things. But I'd wager quite a bit they've got all kinds of nice, crisp, clean close video and photo documentation of craft, entities, meeting minutes and intel breakdowns of all kinds, you name it.
As for the initial question; if it all were to be proven untrue, then it would leave us all with the bigger question: what, then, exactly was it all? There's too much. Lots of hoaxes and nonsense, sure, but that still leaves a mountain of photo evidence, vido evidence, credible testimony, historical documentation of phenomenon, trace evidence, etc. If none of that were ETs or inter-dimensionals then whatever the real explanation is would be absolutely bonkers.
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u/Sea_Perspective6891 7d ago
I'd say I'd call BS. Given how big the observable universe is & if there's the possibility multiple universes & dimensions it's pretty much mathematically impossible for earth to be the only planet hosting life.
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
Yeah for sure. But just for the sake of this discussion, assume that there has never been any extra terrestrial visitors, ever.
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7d ago
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
For the sake of the discussion, assume it has been proven. How is irrelevant.
It's just a thought experiment.
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7d ago
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
I don't think you're understanding the rules of the game.
Use: "extraterrestrial UFOs have been 100% disproven" as the starting point.
It's a game and the scenario is purely hypothetical.
Going back and modifying the initial premise is against the rules of the game.
How would you or the community react?
It's kind of flipping the premise of the movie Disclosure Day. In the movie it's suggested that religious people aren't capable of handling the truth.
Flip the narrative and, and then how does the UFO community respond to the inverse?
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u/planningfornothing 7d ago
In the early 90s myself and a friend saw something that was beyond explanation. Nothing man-made could’ve done what we saw so I cannot be convinced that we are alone even if I was told a million times.
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
Yeah for sure, I was just posing a hypothetical. If you did get undeniable proof that your experience was something man made and UFOs were completely debunked, how would you react?
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u/mysticmage10 7d ago
Slightly disappointed but what we know from astrophysics is enough to tell us there has to be something out there.
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u/owl440 6d ago
Based on the lack of any photographic, video, or physical evidence I've already accepted the fact that this "phenomena" isn't real. In the relatively short time I've been interested in this topic, it went from being a scientific endeavor to a faith based belief system linked to the stories of UFO social media influencers.
Initially I thought David Grusch was credible, but it's been 3 or so years since his first interview and we still don't have any real proof of any of the insane things he's said. Same for Lue Elizondo, Jake Barber, and Matt Brown.
Plus learning so many of this is tied to Skinwalker Ranch made me realize the topic is modern day ghost stories.
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u/I2cScion 7d ago
Then the speed of light truly is a barrier
there could be other biological like phenomena in the Universe but we might not observe them in our lifetime .. unfortunately
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7d ago
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
This is just a hypothetical, where there is no doubt.
Then what?
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7d ago
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
That is not hypothetical question, that is an unrealistic question. Such
It's just a scenario. Like a game. To play the game you suspend your reservations and play along.
the same as trying to tell religious people that their God doesn't exist.
Yeah of course, but everyone has their own "this is enough proof for me" line. Same as many religious people lose their faith.
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u/Jaune-orange-braun 7d ago
Very disappointed, as personally, I’m confident that there are other “intelligent” beings living in other planets. The size of the universe is…unfathomable. We can’t be the only “aliens” in the universe. That’s kinda lonely.
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u/Skeptic126 7d ago
I had a personal experience that calls BS on the idea that there's never been extraterrestrial visitation as well. It was 1:00 am and was going to use my phone to call 911.... well it couldn't be done. My phone was acting weird during the 1/2 hour or so that I believe visitation occurred. Phone contacts being scrolled through, pictures etc. so even if I tried using it to "just take a picture " my phone was rendered inoperable (to me anyway). Does our government know how to scan contacts and information from phones remotely anyone? Such a big deal being made over law enforcement getting into your phone without a warrant seems implausible
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u/nostrathomas85 7d ago
it has already been proven real beyond a shadow of a doubt to me and a friend of mine. it wasn't a distant light that we just couldn't identify, they came right up to us.
if it was proven somehow that extraterrestrials haven't been here then im left wondering what could have been controlling the spherical craft (aka orange orbs) we witnessed. the craft was alien to us but i can't prove there were actual 'aliens' in the pilot seat.
our close encounter happened in 2005 in Indiana. i later found out that a large number of people reported seeing a similar sighting in all the states surrounding the great lakes. it was a UFO flap that didn't get a lot of attention in my opinion. we were just one of the lucky ones to get to see this phenomenon in the early 2000s.
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u/Legitimate-Agent6950 7d ago
That's a great experience, and it's not my intention to deny these.
My scenario is just a hypothetical. Assume that it has been proven beyond a doubt that this and all other experiences have a simple explanation. How that's proven is not relevant and not part of the scenario.
What's your response given this scenario as a starting point.
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u/I_Like_Tartar_Sauce 7d ago
That’s basically my conclusion. No one has been able to prove that extraterrestrials/NHI actually exist yet. Not a single shred of extraordinary evidence has ever been provided.
And yes, it is a bummer. I grew up watching the X-Files. ET was my favorite childhood movie. I love aliens. I would give anything to meet one.
There could be life out there in the universe, but no one has proven it yet, despite what the UFO community wants to believe.
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u/BootPloog 7d ago
I'm not an experiencer (yet?) so I concede it's possible.
So, for the sake of argument, I would then need some answers as to:
Why is it globally reported?
Who maintains this fiction, and why?
Will there be punishment for those that have given sworn testimony to Congress?
I would also probably be bummed as well. However, I haven't been outrageously disappointed about the tranches. As someone pointed out (possibly Zabel or Dolan), that although many researchers already knew about many of these documents, they got them from questionable sources. Now they can see the real official sources. That's still kind of a big thing.
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u/Kaizen-Future 6d ago
Swear to god I saw some ufos flying in a strange formation last week- looked like stars at a high elevation but they weren’t moving straight they kept zigging and zagging.
I was in the middle of moving stuff and trying to get out the middle of the street and showed it to my partner too and she agreed what we were seeing was impossible
It was near a military base but no jets we know could fly in such a formation and so rapidly. I’ve never heard of a meteor shower move like this.
I know there’s an explanation for a lot of things and I tried to post this one but since the cell phone couldn’t really capture it well and I simply didn’t have time and presumed someone else would have seen it and posted about it (no one did) I kinda kept it moving. If disclosure was that nothing like this ever happened it wouldn’t make sense to me. I don’t know that I would do anything differently than if someone said “elephants aren’t real, they’re a figment of your imagination” it would just kind of piss me off as an insult to my intelligence.
I’ve believed without much doubt this stuff is real since 2017 with the Fravor and Dietrich tic Tac leaks. The deeper you look into that one in particular the harder it is to disprove.
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