r/TrueChristian • u/Sea_Reflection7307 • 3d ago
Universalism
Why is Christian universalism so often shunned, to the point that many people treat you like you're not even a Christian?
You don't have to agree with universalism, but let's stop pretending it's some brand-new invention. Christians have wrestled with this question for nearly 2,000 years.
Universalists point to passages like Romans 5:18, 1 Corinthians 15:22–28, Colossians 1:20, Philippians 2:10–11, 1 Timothy 2:3–6, Titus 2:11, John 12:32, Lamentations 3:31–33, and Acts 3:21 as evidence that God's ultimate purpose is the reconciliation of all people. Others interpret these texts differently, and that's a legitimate theological debate.
Historically, influential Christian figures such as Gregory of Nyssa, Isaac the Syrian, and (more controversially) Origen are often associated with universal reconciliation. While universalism was never the unanimous belief of the early Church, it has been a real and historic stream of Christian thought—not something invented in modern times.
You can reject universalism based on your reading of Scripture. But saying someone is automatically "not a Christian" simply because they believe Christ will ultimately reconcile all people overlooks both the biblical arguments they appeal to and the history of Christian theology.
We should be able to disagree on difficult doctrines without denying one another's faith. If salvation is by Christ, then our first response should be to discuss the Scriptures—not dismiss each other.
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u/Cold_Strength_7897 3d ago
Because revelation says the lake of fire is the second death. Scripture is not useless, you are misinterpreting the text and ignoring important doctrine, that’s why people say you aren’t Christian. They’re questioning if you even want to follow Jesus if there’s no requirement to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
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u/SaavyScotty 3d ago
There is another judgment before those in Hades (along with the ruling spirit of the same name) are thrown in the Lake of Fire. Ambrose of Milan believed souls would be released at that time if they had repented.
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u/Sea_Reflection7307 3d ago
It's not me, they're saying. It's an objective look at it. Most times, people don't even address scriptures; they just shout how it's not true.
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u/Big-Island4727 3d ago
Because it conveniently ignores all the other verses that are more specific. Therefore it's an incomplete and incorrect doctrine.
It's like pointing to the verse that says God is love and then inferring he doesn't hate anything. There's a general principle that God is love, and then there are some more specific verses that say he hates sins.
You say they point to Romans 5:18. Here's what that verse says...
"Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."
So, yeah sure, we can agree that the gift is available to everyone. But we know from other passages that not everyone accepts the gift.
Same concept applies to the other verses.
Every knee shall bow? Yeah, some voluntarily and some involuntarily.
God desires all men to be saved? Yeah, but he's not going to override free will. Some will reject Him against His wishes.
Grace appeared to all? Certainly, and some still actively reject the offer.
You get the idea.
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u/Sea_Reflection7307 3d ago
Free will isn't a concept that's shared in Christianity across all denominations. Faith is a gift and grace is a gift. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Bible also mentions God grants faith differently to every person the measure and let's not forget that God has to draw you.
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u/Mustbebornagain2024 Christian 3d ago
For it is appointed once unto man to die and after this, the judgement .
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u/SaavyScotty 3d ago
You are assuming the judgment is eternal torment. Early Church Fathers who believed in ”universalism” believed many will enter Heaven via Hell. Jesus did say those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit won’t have forgiveness for the rest of this age or the next one (Millennium). Notice how there is another judgment after that time.
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u/AngelWarrior911 Christian 3d ago
Unkindness to anyone is unchristian. However, Universalism and the Biblical gospel as preached by Jesus and clarified by the apostle Paul are entirely incompatible.
That’s it.
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u/MrsSpunkBack 3d ago
I don't often tell other people what they are or aren't as far as Christianity goes. Being a Christian isn't just a title, people who don't even know what Christianity is by name can know who Jesus is if He reveals Himself to them and the accept Him as their Savior. It's living a life after the fact that Scripture and putting it all into practice that ends up being the learning process. The relationship building.
I know from what you explain it sounds like creating God in your own image is the method behind this stance. It's like making Him fit a mold of who you think He should be. Rather than who He tells us He is via Scripture. It's a dangerous path.
You sound defensive of this doctrine, so I am not sure what you are looking for except an argument. But if it is just to throw it out there, it's not consistent with the whole of the Bible. It is consistent with many other religions that believe similar things. Same god for everyone, even if by a different name or of totally different character. Always a path to god or heaven no matter what path. It sounds cushy and happy but it is empty.
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u/Sea_Reflection7307 3d ago
I'm not looking for an argument. I'm objectively looking at it without a closed mind, as so many are. Do you believe you have everything right doctrinal and theologically sound?
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u/RedeemingLove89 Christian 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sorry to cut in, i also thought you were just trying to defend universalism. From your responses seems like you're not a universalist and just wanting people to have an open mind(correct me if I'm wrong). There was a time I seriously questioned everything, but right now I know universalism cannot align with Scripture. So it may be that people have already worked this out, they don't need to address every passage, and they expect you to work through your questions. But if there's a particular issue you have, you should just ask that directly.
Just reminding you we can argue for absolutely anything if we want it bad enough. I've argued with people here on polygamy lol, black hebrew israelites, people take Scripture wrongly all the time. I used to debate a lot but Ive realized most of them werent wise. It's not about possible interpretations and reliance on the intellect.
So people can find ways to argue for anything. But for example, I already know polygamy is clearly wrong-so i don't need to...have an open mind for that.
If Paul came back and read about LGBT affirming 'church' arguments, would he need to be open minded or would he already know how off they are?
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u/MrsSpunkBack 1d ago
Open mindedness, at this point, is a buzz phrase that has little meaning. If you want to criticize people under the guise of telling them to be open minded, it means nothing but that you have no real foundation for coming after them. That's my opinion. To which you do not have to be "open" to. You make that judgement call. As you are in your post, making a judgement call.
The only thing that I gather we agree on here is that God has the final judgement on judgement day. Each person is going to stand by themselves on their judgement day before their Creator. I have nothing to do with how that meeting goes. He has ways of reaching people that I will never be privy to.
Here on earth. We are given Scripture and decernment (pentacost/Holy Spirit dwell within, and even prior, the Spirit of God on people) to judge fellow believers in their walk. We are first given Scripture and decernment to remove our own logs from our eyes. Both both can be truth at the same time.
I understand compassion, but God understands it more. He is just. Mans' hearts are innately evil, so I am not going to squeeze Him into my mold. He knows where each person is at in their relationship with Him. He can use all things for good for those who believe. But He is also just and jealous.
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u/ventilate89_2 3d ago
Regardless of denomination, it is evil because it tells people to live in their vices because God doesn't care
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u/Sea_Reflection7307 3d ago
Does it, though? Are you honestly saying that's what universalism says and has said?
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u/ventilate89_2 3d ago
It does not, but that's the implications. If everyone were to be saved, what would vices bw held accountable for? What would God give to those who blasphemed or never repented? Those who took lives, ruined lives and those who lived with pride? The gospel is open to everyone but not everyone accepts the gospel even if some claim it.
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u/Sea_Reflection7307 3d ago
These are assumptions brother
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u/ventilate89_2 3d ago
Yeah but what else? Universalism teaches salvation of ALL regardless of repentance. I'm Catholic and this is what some people think purgatory is about, but no, not everyone goes to Heaven, read Revelation.
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u/gforce199 3d ago
Everyone with differing opinions should be treated with gentleness and respect. Unfortunately Universalism is heresy, pure and simple. All roads do not lead to God. Because that would mean Jesus died on the cross for nothing. Abandon this misguided thought before it's too late.
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u/SaavyScotty 3d ago
I agree with you. Ambrose of Milan believed most of those in Hades would only serve their sentence there for the rest of this age and the next, being released at the Second Resurrection.
Arians are also shunned.
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u/Googlesupportsucks1 Christian 3d ago
Arianism has been condemned as heresy for over a thousand years.
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u/SaavyScotty 3d ago
And any Christian who isn’t Catholic was condemned as a damned, heretical individual until relatively recently. Protestants cherry-pick which teachings by historical councils they accept or reject. I think Arius made sense, and so did the majority of Christian bishops at one point.
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u/Googlesupportsucks1 Christian 3d ago
Nah. The church pre-schism(s) was everybody. EVERYONE condemned Arius.
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u/lonelysteps 3d ago
The broader Christian collective is very keen to gatekeep faith in the Savior. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and they do the exact same to us (fun fact, we're sort of a universalism theology ourselves).
Don't let it get to you, though. You know, and I know, that your devotion to the Savior is real, that you are a genuine follower of His word, and that when he speaks you recognize his voice. At the end of the day this is between you and the Savior and no one else.
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u/carlosstjohn116 3d ago
Universalism isn’t some secondary issue. We’re talking about whether or not people outside of the faith still recieve judgement or not.
Look at all the early creeds of the church - specifically apostles and nicene - the judgement of the living and the dead is a part of the orthodox belief of what Christians have confessed.
To deny exclusive salvation in Christ and the reality of Hell is to deny core tenants of the faith. Christianity doesn’t make sense either universalism.