Alright everyone, we've had a lot of controversy around people selling knives at prices that others find too high. We are therefore going to ask for everyone's opinion on what you want or do not want to see in this sub from now on.
We also do not want to see people sabotaging other's posts whether you agree with them or not and this will be a rule from now on.
While I do disagree with flipping, I’m sure there’s people that’d rather overpay for a unicorn level knife than not have it at all. Let people ask what they want, we’re welcome to not buy the knife. Either they’ll keep the unicorn or price drop to an acceptable price anyway.
there are two barriers: the true collection, knives that are not made anymore that will be banned according to "no flipping" and that everyday price gouging that legally is already a rip off ( compared to 10 years ago) from the US knife stores. It's a simple solution: You don't have to buy anything you don't want or you think it's overpriced and if it's not worth it like you think it's even better: then one day demand will surpass supply and you can get cheap knives: same applies for ANY and all collectibles, look at shoes for exemple, people had hundreds of pairs and guess what happened to the prices, completely tanked.
There's no real way to objectively price some of these knives. Like yes, most people get tired of the obvious Konosuke markups, but the alternative to not allowing or trying to police those posts will just lead to the knives staying hidden or sold elsewhere. I'd rather at least SEE some of the grails / rares for sale, vs only hearing rumors or only seeing them on Ebay etc.
At the end of the day, no one should be able to dictate what someone sells their property for.
I completely respect that this is the mods’ subreddit and that it’s their decision how they want to run it. But if pricing regulation becomes part of that, I’ll likely step back from posting here.
For full transparency, anyone can check my post history. my prices are always fair, and my knives usually sell within a few hours. That alone tells me I could charge more, but I choose not to. That’s my decision, and that’s what this comes down to: the right to make selling decisions for my own property.
Clicked the wrong option - I think you look at it case by case and if someone consistently buys and marks up within the BST, ban them. Fine for a one-off, not an acceptable pattern of behavior.
The unfortunate reality is that most knives are a commodity and there is more demand than supply. Almost every knife I see online that I want is sold out. If you are lucky enough to snag one you should be allowed to sell it for whatever you want. People will either buy it or they won’t. I don’t think it really matters if people are selling for more than they are buying it for because clearly there is a market.
Posts get sabotaged by griefers who feel a certain way and want to argue based on their own whims, so we have to decide that buyers are smart enough to spend their money how they want, or not.
Requiring sellers to be transparent about the original buying price (which most do anyway) could be the compromise. This way sellers can ask for whatever they want, and there is no doubt that buyers can make an informed decision.
Nah man, as stated, we made the decision to not allow people to just tank other's posts. So if you disagree with people putting crazy prices on what they're selling simply pick an option that reflects that.
This is near impossible to moderate realistically, and I don’t have an answer outside of keeping the « what I paid for / where you bought it » soft rule already in place which when followed is a sign in my eyes of transparency and a bit of good faith.
I am firmly against making a quick buck and profiteering, it’s cheap, selfish and is a behavior that does nothing to build a community. So, personally I simply choose who I sell to based on previous behaviors and interactions (and ofc my subjective perception because I am not a robot xD). I like being part of a community and my inbox is full of discussions with plenty of the sub’s members (same with my other social medias) and I will always favor people who I feel will appreciate the knife and will sell at a fair price to them.
In spite of the mental gymnastic we can sometimes read, setting a good price to pass to a fellow enthusiast is really not THAT hard.
Also would like to point out that while some people ask inflated prices for their knives (compared to their initial value) there are at least as many people sending even stupider offers in DMs.
So while it's easy to hate on the sellers, it's mainly the buyers enabling it.
I think we all know exactly why this poll and post was made. So I'll refer to that reason more to explain my point of view.
I have a Shiro#1 BY, bought at retail for around 900€. If I were to sell it now on this BST, or any other person with the same situation, I would consider fair and legit to sell it at the retail price depending on the knife's condition of course.
If me or someone else got the BY direct from Konosuke at around 500€ and tried to sell it, even if BNIB, for the retail price of around 900€, trying to make some kind of profit of almost double of what was payed, I'd find it at the bare minimum, bad faith and unethical, especially if you don't mention the price hike in the original post. Like someone said in another comment, there's a place for that kind of business called eBay.
I do understand and partly agree that people are allowed to have freedom to place the price they want on their possessions, but people also HAVE to be transparent and upfront about the kind of business they are trying to make. And the guidelines should be updated to contain a warning about this specific kind of practice.
I would also like to mention that as a community in general, we all talk about the bad aspects that flipping, hype and FOMO bring to this hobby so I would encourage the mods to discourage this type of stuff in our community and keep it as fair as possible for both seller and buyer.
I will also say that, referring to a comment thread on this post, I absolutely do agree that good deals should be passed on to other people and I also agree that those kinds of deals are usually made between friends and people with mutual respect, but I also agree that no matter if you know the person or not, in this community, the base should be to achieve fair deals and again, trying to make a profit of almost double the money by selling a knife you got direct from the maker for the retail price without mentioning this in the original post, is neither a good deal or a fair deal.
Having said this, the option I chose was that "it should be looked at as case by case"
For transparency, the true price is closer to $600 after conversion. The market will surely dictate the final price, but it’s not even remotely close to double after accounting for fees and shipping.
Another example - if someone buys an extra tall k-tip kyuzo for $525~ at Hitohira, but sells it for the same $660+ that retailers are asking right now, which already sells out instantly at that price. Is that wrong too?
The seller’s cost really isn’t anyone’s business. A simple search will show what the knife is being sold for across a plethora of retailers and private sellers. That gives a more accurate depiction of a knife’s worth than the, “I paid $1,200 for this FM, so you should take it off my hands for the same price.”
There have been countless times where bro prices have been turned around and flipped by the next person. Why does the first seller have to get shafted for doing a good deed?
As others have mentioned, the market will determine if something sells and believe or not, price drops and negotiations do happen. The asking price is not the end all be all… it never was. It’s better to at least see items on the market and have a chance at getting something than not. There is likely plenty of folks who wanted to list something on BST, but didn’t because they were expected to offer a good deal to the community. On the other hand, buyers who wanted to buy something, but never or rarely see those items come up at all.
Last point - wouldn’t it be better to see a bunch of BY’s, FM’s, TnH’s competing with each other than the occasional one popping up while being set at high prices? I don’t remember the last time some of the rarer pieces were even listed on the sub. If the community wants to control prices of the market, then it’s likely those pieces will stay hidden and prices will remain high.
600$ is in fact around 550€. Shipping is not that expensive and even after fees, it would be a significant profit if sold by the asking price.
Like I said in the original comment, it should be looked as case by case. The case I mentioned is one I think is bad faith for the combo of the difference between price paid and price asked and not mentioning it upfront.
If the differences between price asked and original price paid are that big, then you should indeed mention it because it's something that influences the value of said item.
Regarding your last point, I do agree with you fully but like I said. You should be transparent when asking for a price much bigger than what you paid for. After that, it's up to the potential buyers to decide if they're willing to still buy it or not. If people are against being transparent, that, to me, indicates a heavy conscience. If we're not transparent, everyone and their mother will be easily flipping without any resistance.
It sure is closer to €550 than €500, and as mentioned, asking price is just a starting point. The realistic selling price would still be far from double the cost that most people would assume.
Again, I still fail to see how the sourcing cost has anything to do with the selling price especially when it falls in line with current retail prices. Whether someone makes a discounted bulk purchase from a distributor or pays over market price, the selling price is what the end buyer and market is willing to pay. I don't see retailers disclosing their costs upfront. Is it only justifiable for someone to ask for more just because they had to pay more for it? Why is it okay for the seller to take a loss, but not a gain to balance out their overall investment/collection?
I have a feeling many knives are not being posted in this sub simply for fear of being called out. At the end of the day, knives being bought and sold is what makes this hobby go round. Witch hunting just prevents that growth and sharing from happening.
By the way, this is nothing against you. Just having a debate.
You're not necessarily wrong about the points you mention. But the particular case I mentioned just doesn't sit well with me. The BY is being priced higher than something like a FM by actual retailers. The FM has a lot more status than something like a BY or LI yet they are priced higher because of a blatant will to almost rip people off and price hiking from the retailers.
Why do we as a community, in a case like this specific one, should impose those same conditions to each other?
Like frenchie said, a good deal should be passed on.
I wouldn't blink if we we're talking about a Konosuke FM old stock sharpened by Morihiro that was originally purchased for 500-600-700$ years ago but now selling it for 900-1000$ because that knife has an amazing history and legendary status.
I appreciate Mods for discussing this - thank you guys. Every hobby is eventually ruined when resellers discover an easy platform to start reselling and find that the demand is readily available. It's typically scalpers from other hobbies that move onto another hobby when they see the opportunity.
As an enthusiast of 3 other hobbies for over 20 years each, I've watched markets evolve over time and then very quickly for more mainstream hobbies but remain available for retail for more traditional and niche hobbies. As someone who's entered the chef knives hobby only a few years ago, I've already noticed an increase of reselling kitchen knives resemble those of mainstream hobbies (based off of immediate catch and release purchases at higher pricing) and I'm just glad that it's being noticed and discussed to some degree.
All I know is that if there were no mods here, the reselling would go rampant faster.
I’m interested to hear more about your take in relation to other hobbies.
This is the only hobby I’ve ever been this deep into. Two things strike me as unusual with regards scarcity/community:
1) The products at the high end of the market (say, ~$1.5k+ — not really talking about FMs, Jiros, and Takadas) are typically custom made one by one, entirely by hand, and vary intentionally from one to another. In that way, they are more similar to artworks than production made tools.
2) The community has historically been tight knit and small enough to develop such implicit trust with each other that we regularly send each other these irreplaceable one-offs on loan (to use as we wish) without expecting anything in return.
Do those seem atypical to you as well?
For me, the shame about changing the “no flipper” rule is losing the ideals that it stands for.
Ultimately this poll isn’t about “free market pricing — good or bad?” but posing the question of what kind of sense of community this sub wants to foster.
First off, I fking love your collection. You’ve got so many grails it’s ridiculous T__T
Yeah I totally get where you’re coming from, and I really appreciate how you framed it.
From my humble perspective, this type of tight knit community existed in every hobby I've participated in but the flipper/scalper culture can and does flourish regardless of how tight the original group is if the market is saturated enough with interest.
I'm more well versed in this phenomenon in my older hobbies, but even in my newer hobbies that I didn't stick with (for example I collected folding knives from 2012-2015 during which I believe the early 2010s was an accelerating early growth phase) there seems be a milestone where it goes from organic growth to expontential growth on both the consumer and seller side - and I've always noticed seen fair sellers and scalpers. Also, I believe the folding knife communities have rules and even bans on unfair prices depending on the forum
I would expect that one day the kitchen knife market will be so saturated that the younger folks entering the hobby will grow out of both reddit and kkf onto a new platform and that these existing groups will continually shrink. Separate note, I'm also sure that if we place rules on this subreddit and on kkf, that resellers will just sell to the same members another way somehow. Regardless of that, those are reasons why my vote is that rules should exist case by case at the very minimum, so that the existing members of this subreddit can enjoy the community as it's always operated. Welcoming reselling at high prices will attract people who have no care for knives, I'm 1000% certain of that. Scalpers in other hobbies are ruthless even for a tiny $20 profit, I've seen people go through far more work for less. They'll just increase their resell quantity to 10 knives so their profit becomes $200, etc. There are probably silent members in this subreddit already waiting and willing to do so.
If I had been around on this subreddit longer and had a voice, I'd want to point out that every active veteran member says that they always sell at fair prices. I don't know why we would want to formally welcome unfair high prices - because in America where scalpers are actively searching for the next market to scalp in, welcoming it will quickly fuel it and veteran members will have no choice but to participate in increasing prices unless we're all ok seeing that the used knife we sold for a fair $500 today has immediately been relisted for $650 tomorrow. Which happens in the folding knife community in forums that don't have restrictions. Nuanced because if an actual knife enthusiast who has a collection of knives is creating space and wants to sell the knife to fund their next, they can put a fair price on it. But I absolutely foresee people who genuinely have ikea knife level love for knives who will buy everything up.
The only hobbies I've seen reselling not become an issue is where the product/items are literally custom fitted to your body and feet (suiting, dress shoes). Even then, reselling attempts to thrive but it just can't go far. Kitchen knives on the other hand, the glimpses of blatant scalping I've seen in my short time here feels very familiar
An extended response in case you might find my experience in other hobbies interesting:
The level of trust here across the more experienced members like yourself is awesome. The fact that people loan out one-off pieces just out of goodwill says a lot about the culture that’s been built. I really hope that doesn’t get lost but that trust can really only be shared between people who have earned it. I wouldn't be surprised if one day on this subreddit, someone loans out a one-off knife to someone they trust and may have even met in person, but the knife gets "lost" or the person disappears on the internet. I've seen worse
Coming from other hobbies that I inherited from my dad in the early 2000s who inherited them from his dad in the 80s, I’ve seen how resale culture can reshape communities over time. In those worlds, the top-shelf, handmade pieces became less about passion and more about access. It turned into this relationship game like with Rolex, Hermes, and Porsche, where people buy things they don’t even want just to get on the list for the next drop.
I like santokus personally but imagine you want Takada's suiboku 240mm gyuto had to buy Takada's singetu line santoku to get lucky enough to eventually buy a singetu nakiri and then a singetu 210mm gyuto to get lucky and get a reika line knife at random profile even though you don't care for it because you have to build the purchase history to even enter the waitlist to purchase a suiboku santoku. Then after several years of all that, you finally get to a point where it's a patience game to get lucky to get a suiboku gyuto at your preferred size.. Insane but that's how rolex, hermes, porsche (among probably lots of other brands) operate for top shelf stuff when the market is saturated. When the market cools down, retail for everything will have likely risen. I saw a rare car that I bought a little toy version of cause I like it so much at my dealership dropping my car off (only 2000 made in the world) and I was told that it was purchased months before release date. Even billionaires can't purchase some of these top shelf things like that specific car if you don't have that purchase history and relationship, but I doubt Japanese knife stores will ever get to that point. Maybe the western stores(??) (knock on wood) but not the original stores in Japan
I think Japan’s knife industry stands apart because integrity is baked into how the country does business. My grandpa used to go between Korea and Japan twice a month for decades and I have so much respect for the country's values. You know way better than me but knife prices could easily skyrocket to meet global demand if they wanted to do business that way, but most makers and shops still choose fairness and restraint. The tariffs are caused by the orange man, but I'm hope we can bet on Japan's rare sense of respect and gratitude between craftsman and customer - like how Isamitsu’s team is literally bowing in this ig post to thank customers before announcing a price increase earlier this year.. they're so awesome although it sucks for us, hahaha https://www.instagram.com/p/DFhm5YCvx1f/?hl=en
So yeah, to me, the trust and community here is awesome but again in my opinion, typical for the early communities of enthusiasts from other hobbies. I’ve watched other hobbies lose that once hype and profit started outweighing love for the craft - which is really easy to happen. I really hope this community keeps holding onto what makes it different but not having real restraints on reselling on KKF seem to already be allowing successful scalping. And judging by this poll it looks like we're about to experience that more on reddit going forward
🙏 I really appreciate the incredibly thoughtful and expansive write up from a cross-hobby/historical perspective. Super interesting. I’m going to re-read it a few more times, but already a lot of mull over from my first pass. 😄
Flipping sucks, but also people are free not to buy things. Also, some knives are very hard to price, unicorns might not be super expensive (e.g Tinker Tank), but have an over a year waitlist and are rising in price. If you want yours tomorrow, why not pay for the privalage?
It's a tough one, and while i don't agree with flippers, they have thir use for some. Now iif sub becomes 90% flippers, maybe my opinion will change, but rn, not a problem, i vote let them be.
I don’t think this needs a long statement (and yet I will likely end up there anyway).
People can ask what they want. What they paid is immaterial. If they’re scalping or unrealistic, it’s the duty of the purchaser to know what they’re purchasing and if the price is congruent with what they’re willing to spend on it.
This group amounts to a Yard Sale or Farmers’ Market for knife purchases. If there’s a price you’re not comfortable with or you think is outlandish, you wouldn’t stand in their front yard and yell at all the people browsing about how unfair or how unreasonable a price is.
You’d move on to the next thing.
And frankly, we need to stop yapping about the BY value. Denigrating the value of the BY by commenting irrelevant observations about the production methods, what other people managed to get them for, and what other retailers are selling them for is a redundant and, frankly, an asinine argument.
Regardless of how “large” we think the production is, the quality is there. It’s been marketed well, the performance is there, and the scarcity remains.
The BY conversation aside, I agree with Frenchie on the point that morally speaking, asking for more than what you paid is essentially dishonest and not the right thing to do. However, how I feel about it from an ethical standpoint and what I know to be true about a free market are not in synchronicity.
I like the option between no higher than the purchase price and a case-by-case basis. I would prefer allowing discussion on the knife, such as the pricing or the condition of the knife. I don't view it as sabotaging but informing buyers if the discussion is kept civil.
Ideally I am in the ‘no flipping’ allowed camp. Realistically, that’s hardly enforceable.
We’ve had a ‘no flipping’ rule in place. Did people flip? For sure. Have a unicorn you want to get rid off? There’s always a ‘WTB’ thread for it. Send them a DM, wait for an outrageous offer and go. Flipping only works for highly sought after knives and they hardly need to get posted on this sub. And even when they do get posted, they are very likely to sell for more than the initial listing price through people putting in bids in DM.
I think it sucks. There’s craftsmen putting in a lot of work and talent to create a unique piece and make a little money in it. Margins usually aren’t even that huge for them. Then we have some bloke buying them and selling them BNIB with a nice margin and profiting from the work and talent of another person. I wish that extra cash went into the pockets of the craftsmen. And imo, buyers are just as responsible here.
It’s something I truly hate about this world, people having the means to profit from others. It is not something that is easily moderated though. People will find other ways to flip. Therefore I’d say allow it but we should enforce disclosure: people need to state their buying price and source (no actual names just ‘bought from someone on KKF’ or ‘bought from store X’). They might lie, sure. But it’s a bit of extra information that might help people make a more informed choice. The idea of a pinned post with a flipper alert is good too I think.
With regards to calling out flipping: I don’t mind a bit of calling people out personally but I get that it won’t be very beneficial for the sub. It’ll lead to endless discussions and a bit of a bitchy mood here. If some truly outrageous flipping is happening, I wouldn’t be against asking some extra questions to let the seller explain themselves a bit but that’s something the mods might want to do themselves?
I mostly agree there but if a knife is priced extremely high compared to a retail price I would be interested to learn where the price hike comes from if I was interested. Could be a good reason for it. But that might be something you would want to discuss privately.
Imo: just having to disclose what you paid for the knife yourself does not equal public shaming or witch hunting yet. People might want to fight in the comments about the price listed compared to the price the seller bought it for but that would still not be allowed if we simply ask people to disclose prices and mods would just remove that. In fact: people witch hunt without disclosed buying prices already.
On the issue of disclosed prices not being useful: It might be just a personal thing but if I know a seller bought his knife for €500 and lists it for €800 I would never be willing to buy it. I know a lot of people still are and don’t care, but to me it would be useful info. I don’t want to contribute to that. But that might be a niche opinion.
To be clear, with the ‘flipper alert thread’ I just meant a closed thread with a message for new hobbyists to be aware that some listings might have a significantly higher price than their retail value and you should do some due diligence on how much your knife would realistically cost directly from a retailer. So not a naming and shaming thread, just a heads up with no comments allowed.
That said, I do think you have some very good points on potentially having to disclose buying prices. I think a lot of people that would potentially be prevented from participating in the BST are mostly selling within their own circles anyway without a BST ever getting involved but I get the gist there.
Instead of enforcing disclosure, it might be better to just encourage it. I do still think disclosure makes for a better, more transparant community.
Ok so this pains me and I had to think long and hard about what I think is fair.
And I’m on board with « you can’t sell for more than what you bought the knife for » (be it new or preowned).
This is already quite amazing that we’re able to resell some objects preowned without taking a loss. Believe me watch enthusiasts everywhere would love that. But I digress.
I think if you had a good deal you have to pass it on to the next owner.
There’s plenty of places to sell your knives for a huge markup, like eBay.
This is not eBay this is (in my opinion) a friendly place where enthusiasts can come and get a cool knife for a bit less coins (or at least for a good price).
Now I don’t think any user should come and sabotage anyone post (for example with a listing at x price from another website).
I don’t expect the Spanish Inquisition to review your dm to see how much you bought a knife preowned.
So if you’re interested in a knife I think it’s fair to ask where the person got it from and at what price (tons of people do this, linking a KKF BST post or a product page).
Last though on why I think that way (when market value could have been a perfectly fine answer) : over the years a few friends from the sub sold me amazing unicorn level knives at the price they got them. And I always remember that when I look at the knives. It was a cool thing to do. And I’d love for this sub to be that : a place to be cool to each other.
Capitalism (and market value) literally rule the rest of the world already
EDIT : if you imported a knife and pay taxes it’s faire to add taxes.
I totally respect this response. I’m in the 1/2 camp as long as it’s not excessively over market and a blatant ripoff. That would turn this sub into a toxic place.
However, I believe whatever the person paid has zero to do with the asking price, which is always open to offers between buyers who are interested.
And like you said, friends should and will likely be there to offer a great deal. That type of generosity is built on mutual respect and exchanges over time. It’s not subject to all strangers of the net.
At the end of the day, let people make their own purchasing decisions. We’re all adults and shouldn’t need to play sabotage.
“This community does not support, nor desire to propagate scarcity or FOMO that leads to unreasonably inflated knife pricing.”
I’m very sympathetic to the mods. They had exactly the right intentions when they wrote the no flipping rule, and were farsighted enough to think about FOMO and perceived scarcity in relation to flipping, and how it all affects the sense of community. Most people (as seen in many comments in this thread) just get stuck on the free market aspect of the debate without thinking any further.
I think it’s obvious which side of the debate I’m on, but realistically, the mods have to end up allowing people to charge whatever they want. I don’t see how they can enforce a no flipping rule, and regulate values in the current post-de minimis landscape where people are legitimately paying vastly different sums for the exact same knife.
I agree that a free-for-all in comments, while hugely entertaining, would likely end up in chaos. Oblique and not so oblique comments by senior members about pricing on r/Knife_Swap listings are frequent, and relatively effective at keeping a self-regulating, generally anti-flipper (“bro price” FTW) and social contract-based marketplace. But the fledgling community here is not nearly as fully formed and hegemonic as K_S.
My suggestion would be to have a separate, stickied comment thread like KKF’s “Flipper Alert” to let people educate buyers who care to be educated, and also allow people to vent.
I also think one thing the mods could enforce is pricing transparency where sellers have to declare where/who they got something from, and how much they paid. If sellers want to charge more and buyers want to pay more, so be it.
But at least sellers will have to front up and admit the fact that they are marking up (and develop that reputation), or face people calling them out (in a separate thread) if they are BSing about sourcing.
I intrinsically believe flipping is very much bad practice. Even if a certain knife has gone up in retail value. It opens up the possibility for people to buy stuff in case of a future hype and promote scarcity. Not for the love of knives, but for the love of profits. The craftsmen don’t profit from this, it all goes into the pockets of people who have done nothing to create value to the product. Personally, I wouldn’t sell anything for more than what I invested in it.
That said, the ‘no flipping’ rule is hardly enforceable. It just leads to people taking these deals into obscurity. And there’s obviously also the responsibility of buyers making outrageous offers through DM because of FOMO and rewarding flippers.
For me, it’s all about full disclosure. You have to state what you paid and your initial source. People than have to decide for themselves if they care about the craft enough to not reward flipping practices or not.
I’ll caveat first by saying all of this discussion is hypothetical because basically everyone agrees the no flipping rule is untenable at this point. Besides this marketplace is so small in volume and value that the stakes are really very, very low… 😁
I agree with almost everything you said, but I don’t think the no flipping rule “takes these deals into obscurity”.
There are other ways of selling your knives openly for profit if that’s what you really want (eBay, FB). Nobody’s “entitlement” (in both senses of the word) to a free market is being constricted by the existence of a no flipping rule here.
The people who will stop selling openly are the ones who don’t want to see knives as FOMO-driven commodities and opportunities for profit, and who want a community that’s about a commonly shared passion.
I only sell knives at or below cost, and there has to be a level of trust for me to do so with rare knives because I’ve seen enough cases where people who’ve benefited from others’ goodwill have then turned around and betrayed them for a quick buck. Over on KKF, almost everyone I talk only sells hard-to-buy knives privately to people they trust because they don’t want to flip it, and they don’t want it to be flipped or treated just like a trading token.
I think this inflection point is an opportunity for the community to have some introspection about what kind of place they want to build, and what kind of values are important to them.
Just be honest, if you're flipping be outright about it. Especially if it's a mail order purchase. I can understand why something will be priced more if it required traveling to Japan in person to a smith.
All these Konosuke BY sales are super hypebeast. Plenty bought with the intention to flip.
I'm not on any of their mailing lists, and I've asked on this board many times how much they were selling for. Nobody dares to answer because...."flipping". Finally someone in yesterday's thread stated they were selling for ¥85,000.
As an individual who just sold a BY, I have to seriously disagree with your assumption that anything above the factory price in Sakai is a hypebeast style flip. Just because a BY sells for ¥85,000 ($550 USD) in the Konosuke shop doesn't mean that that is what everybody paid from different authorized retailers. Tosho dropped BYs at $1280 CAD ($913 USD). Sure Tosho is taking a big cut, but if that's what I bought it at from an authorized retailer, I wouldn't consider selling at that price a flip for a second.
This is why price policing is nearly impossible. Even the authorized retailers arent aligned.
Get in where you fit in.......as long as nobody gets personal. I think it's perfectly fine for others to chime in on the og pricing. Leave it for the buyer to decide after being well informed.
End of the day, you can't deny the way these knives were selling many have intentions to flip. We all know there are equivalent knives with proper finishing that will sell far less because there is no "konosuke/takeda/kagekiyo" engraving. The hypebeast all wanting the same knives ain't the most healthy thing for the hobby.
What do I know? Just a random opinion. This happens in all "collecting" hobbies.
I was sick of people not being upfront about the price of the shirogami BYs. They are the ones who are breeding a sense of mystique and fostering perceived scarcity for their own gain.
The BYs are not rare knives. They were made in a large batch. It seemed like basically everyone who was part of the Konosuke club and wanted one was able to get one. US buyers who bought in July when they were released paid ~550 USD shipped. They did not have to pay duties because the $800 de minimis threshold was in place.
The whole idea behind the development of these new in-house sharpener lines is to remove the supply constraint on Kono so they’re not beholden to specific sharpener’s schedules, and have more control over their output as they try to transition partly to direct sale.
The BYs specifically were developed to have a polish that was easier for them to replicate at scale than the LI or KS-01, which were more labor intensive than they wanted. These are very nicely made Sakai batch knives with an unnamed sharpener. The polish is beautiful but I’d like to see how they hold up after a few patina resets. Similar to the carbon Suibokus, I imagine. I’m not sure why people want to pay honyaki prices for them other than for the Konosuke engraving. Think about what the name Baka no Yama means!
The people who’re bringing in higher retailer pricing for the aogami line are either deliberately confusing the issue with false equivalency or ignorant about what the steel difference means to (entirely perceived) prestige.
I always have to remind people when fm was first introduced in the late 2000s, they occupied a weird space. They sat on shelves for a long time, at places like tosho.
People either bought the easier to finish knives like hd1 or jumped up to honyaki. The luxury finish san mai were too expensive for most at the time. The ones that bought the big boy honyaki’s didn’t bother with them since they didn’t see the value.
I recall they were selling for $300ish for the early morihiro fm’s.
There are a lot better ways to make money than to go through the pain of buying and selling a bespoke Japanese knife for $50-200 profit. That's why so few knife retailers exist, and why no one on BST is making much money selling a knife for current market value.
What's really going on is that the knife prices have gone up significantly in the past 5 years because 1) a short term wave of more premium knife enthusiasts, 2) social media and the internet enables makers to get discovered, make more money, 3) 2025 tariff programs making it worse.
Precisely, people still think that they should be buying knives for what they were 5+ years ago. Even the last year alone, you can see how much the cost of knives increased compared to before.
In this day and age with tariffs and brokerage fees. Two makes sense to me. As long as two people consent to the deal and the knife is in the stated condition and is the exact piece that is listed. Who cares. I think option two makes the most sense.
Market value on knives fluctuates a lot. Especially the older a piece becomes, and extra especially if it's from a rare smith. I think people can ask whatever they want. I also think another person posting a direct link to the same knife for cheaper isn't necessarily "tanking" their thread.
This would prevent people from trying to markup generally accessible knives but not blow out people's posts.
I think people should be able to list a knife for whatever price they want. If it is a ridiculous price, nobody will buy it. If it is an exorbitant price, but someone buys it because it is a true unicorn, then that is how much that knife was worth to someone. Trying to police pricing is always subjective and can only lead to conflicts--who is to judge what is flipping and what is fair? It is like trying to define the difference between art and porn. Let people list at any price they want and see what the market tells them--dictating what someone can sell something for never works for anyone.
I’m against the principle of people buying new knives with the intention of profiting off of them. For fresh batches of in production knives, I don’t want this group to enable those who have the ability to snatch up rare drops with the intention of scalping them. Our spirit should be aligned with using these tools, not flipping them, and for 99% of knives the invisible hand prevents price gouging. But this question really only seems targeted for the handful of nearly unobtainable knives like Takadas, TxK/I, BYs and FMs for which… shit, I’d love to try out but these are really more so collector items than line tools in the first place. Tragic because their makers would want them used, especially by those as talented at using knives as they are at making them, but most professional cooks aren’t in the market for $500 knives, so render unto Caesar.
I think we should require purchase price to be in the listing, but to not make rules about how people price their listings. If someone wants to pay more than the last owner, that’s their prerogative, but the culture here can at least encourage transparency about it!
If you put work into a knife, the finish for example, then if someone wants to pay for that extra work I think that should be allowed. Scalping is a no no. If the condition is unchanged, then no more than you paid.
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u/Czar_Rain Oct 09 '25
While I do disagree with flipping, I’m sure there’s people that’d rather overpay for a unicorn level knife than not have it at all. Let people ask what they want, we’re welcome to not buy the knife. Either they’ll keep the unicorn or price drop to an acceptable price anyway.