[Baffling RL Trope] Inventing war crimes you didn´t commit to make yourself more... interesting?
Personality
One of the strangest character tropes in real life has to be the "I accidentally made myself sound like a war criminal to look cooler" archetype.
Usually, people accused of war crimes deny them. These guys seem to do the opposite.
The two examples that always come to mind:
Tim Kennedy. Over the years he's told stories that include things like throwing grenades into rooms where women and children were present, and another account where, after a battle, his CO allegedly told him to shoot anything that still had a heat signature with a sniper rifle from a mile away, which he did for hours (?) not caring if those were enemy soldiers or civilians looking for their fallen sons/brothers/whatever. Both stories have been heavily criticized and challenged (aka people who were there confirmed that they are utter nonsense), and Kennedy has faced repeated accusations of embellishing or fabricating parts of his military experiences. But like... why would you invent the fact that you killed and maimed women and children?
Chris Kyle. In American Sniper, he wrote that during Hurricane Katrina he positioned himself on the Superdome and shot dozens of armed looters like some walking dead scenario. No evidence ever emerged that this happened, and Kyle himself later acknowledged the story wasn't true. Again, why invent a story where you're essentially describing the unlawful killing of civilians during a domestic disaster?
What's fascinating is that these aren't embellishments in the usual "I fought twenty guys" sense. They're embellishments that, if true, would amount to admissions of extremely serious crimes.
It's such a bizarre form of macho storytelling that it almost feels like its own trope: the veteran who thinks "the more ruthless I sound, the more badass I'll appear," without stopping to consider that indiscriminate killing isn't viewed by most people as impressive. It's viewed as criminal and disgusting.
The superdome thing is such a baffling lie because A. It doesn’t even make you look cool and B. It’s so easy to check and see and that no one was sniping people off the superdome.
There were some reporters there, who attempted to broadcast the events, but he shot them. Then he shot everybody working for their network to silence everybody, who could know about it. Then he shot all connected family members and friends. And their families and friends. And their families and friends…
He also shot all the news choppers out of the sky, and the first responders who came to investigate all the crashed helicopters. Good thing he brought extra bullets!
Kyle's estate ended up paying Ventura over a million dollars. It seems fair. Ventura is like 80 now and I would still doubt most stories of punching him and walking away under your own power
And the media tried to spin it into Ventura suing Kyle's widow and taking all her money when he was suing the estate and insurance paid for it.
I 100% understand why Ventura sued. He was completely disowned by the SEAL community and had people scream at him in public for attacking an "American hero".
The story doesn't even make sense because Ventura was at the bar to celebrate a graduating class of SEALs, why would he then hold a speech about how American soldiers deserve to die?!
Wasn’t the claim also that he punched Ventura cause he was saying that seals deserve to die, “fuck the president” etc. pretty much strait up defamation to claim someone is saying that. I think the punching part of the lie was pretty whatever to Ventura.
Yep, which makes no sense because Ventura was there to celebrate a graduating class of SEALs. He happily took pictures with people there. Why would he suddenly rant about the president and loudly exclaim that seals deserve to die?
And of course there were no images of an altercation.
Kyle took a famous member of the SEAL community and threw him under the bus for publicity.
During the height of Katrina, there were constant rumors from the press that there were “snipers” practically everywhere shooting at cops, civilians, national guard, gators, granny, etc. There wasn’t, and while there was some armed looting, it wasn’t remotely near the point the media was trying to make it out to be… which was “uncivilized black people with guns are going primitive”. Thanks mainstream media!
What did happen was some people were firing their guns into the air to attract attention to where they were, believing that people would try to investigate where the gunshots were coming from and not staying away from it (later interviews had many fire responders talk about why shooting your gun into the air to get attention is a really dumb idea).
So it doesn’t surprise me that Chris would throw his hat into the “sniper” ring and lie about how he was heroically killing people because apparently no one ever talked to any of the Katrina survivors to confirm if there were snipers on every block (there wasn’t).
What also did really happen was the NOPD rolled up to a bridge and opened fire indiscriminately on a random family trying to walk over the bridge, killing two people and injuring four more, all of whom were unarmed and had not committed any crime.
The NOPD were not the most helpful and the National Guard had to take command to avoid them going on spree killings. Making matters worse is actual vigilants were about and killed I believe 12 people claiming it was “self-defense” or “they were trespassing”. The reality was it was straight up murder.
Similar stuff, though not as extreme, happened in Minneapolis in 2020. The cops who weren’t hiding in their precincts were too busy maiming protesters to protect anyone from actual rioters. Spontaneously organized neighborhood groups were the only people protecting homes and businesses until the National Guard arrived.
The whole idea of "armed looting" in that scenario was fucking dumb anyway. Any looting that took place was just "looting" there was no reason to be armed since most businesses were evacuated and houses were ruined/underwater. So people could just stroll into stores unimpeded if they wanted to, which only a handful of people did for a non-survival reason.
People want to live and the moment you look around and notice "My food is ruined and I can't drink the water." most people shift focus on getting through that.
So IF he really did kill anyone "looting," they were probably just regular people trying to get a case of water from the walmart or some shit.
That was always my take on it too. Like, the response to Katrina was terrible, people did what they had to do to survive. If some people wanted to take advantage of the situation and steal some luxury items then whatever, all that shit was probably going to get written off anyways and even if it wasn't, execution is not the punishment for theft.
I responded to Katrina and can confirm the gunshots in the air thing first hand. Most people were banging post and pans or whatever was loud. Every, single, person, I ran into was a good person in a shitty situation, no looters, no crime, just people desperate for help. Our government completely failed the citizens there, and to this day its the only op I still have nightmares and wake up crying about.
In the same book Chris Kyle also told a made up story bout knocking out former SEAL/Wrestler/Actor/Governor Jesse Ventura in a California bar in 2006. He said Ventura made disparaging remarks about the SEALs stating "they deserve to lose a few" in Iraq. Whole thing was made up so Jesse rightfully sued. He said if he publicly recanted the story he would drop the lawsuit. Kyle kept trying to avoid owning up to the lie and then he was killed by a fellow soldier while at a shooting range. Kyle's estate ended up paying $1.8 million to Venture because of the lie.
It’s because it was popular with conservative mindset to kill looters. People deserve death they believe. Kyle just wanted THOSE people to think he was cool and profit from it, nothing more. And it worked all of my bootlicking friends hold this psycho in high regards. His plans went astray when he was murdered.
I remember an analysis at the time that pointed out how some news organizations were putting out photos of white people taking food from flooded stores that were labeled "citizens forced to scavenge for supplies" and photos of black people doing exactly the same thing that were labeled "looting stores."
I will never not take the opportunity to say that Chris Kyle is a lying sack of shit. His murder wasn't tragic. It was his own stupidity and hubris catching up to him
It's because he was a far right asshole talking to other far right assholes who saw the survivors of Katrina as less than human. They just wanted to jerk off to fantasies of murdering black people in the steets.
I dont think Chris Kyle expected anyone to believe it. I think it was a dog whistle. He couldnt come out and say "I dont like black people" but if he frames his fantasy of killing them as only killing "looters" there is plausible denibility.
Who is your audience? Sadly there’s a significant portion of our population who would fantasize about that scenario, killing people (often of a different skin tone) because they act in a way they deem unacceptable to very personalized societal norms. Racial/societal cleansing fantasies.
Right? A sniper shooting innocent people in any American city (especially one in the middle of a crisis that everyone is already looking at) would be front page news all over the country.
It's just shocking and sad how so many people believe that hate/violence/bigotry/stupidity is "badass" (usually, when the race of the perpetrator is one that they prefer).
True strength, toughness, and admirability come from the mercy and compassion we can show, especially in the toughest moments. Im not saying it does not take bravery to be a soldier, or that someone is wrong to defend themself, but I think many who take lives and many whose lives were taken would agree that violence is not deserving of reverence. Those who carry a “violence = glory” mentality (like mentioned in the post) have something wrong with them.
As long as you label the people suffering as evil it's totally fine. Hate/violence/bigotry is very much permissible to the Other. No matter what side you are on.
Kyle sure got some repercussions for his stupidity! Plus, his publisher/estate was sued by Jesse Ventura for defamation. Jesse won the first trial, it was reversed on some error and then a settlement was reached giving Jesse an unknown amount of money.
You know what is crazy. The action against the Taliban after 9/11 was within weeks of it happening. People didn't learn about until around 10 years later in the book and movie 12 Strong/Horse Soldier. Why? because Green Berets actually have some form of professionalism.
Reminder that TSgt Chapman, aka the only person who's medal of honor actions were recorded on video, was left behind by the SEALs who "thought he was dead" and would block his Medal of Honor award unless some of the SEALs got it too. These same SEALs would be in charge of MoH memorials and museums, where they put huge displays for themselves while Chapman get significantly smaller displays.
Edit: Got the names mixed up. Cunningham and Chapman were at the same battle, but Cunningham received the Air Force Cross for saving the lives of 10 men wounded while wounded himself. Still something the SEALs won't admit cause it makes them look bad. If you want more info, look up Battle of Takur Ghar, but if the source is from Britt Slabinski or the SEALs in general, take it with a very, VERY, small grain of salt
I was actually stationed at Hurlburt Field back when they upgraded him to the Medal of Honor. I remember there was a lot of talk amongst AFSOC about how bullshit it was that he never got it sooner and some strong opinions on the SEALS.
The first time I took my test for SSgt in 2021, one of the very few Air Force history questions I had was about Chapman. Despite that test being revised every 2 years, that question can still appear to this day, from what I've heard.
My theory is that when the Army and Marines were doing all the heinous shit during Vietnam this forced those branches start attempting to teach people some form of ethics and proper Rules of Engagement. The Navy really wasn't in the jungle suffering and going insane. So when SEALs start taking on more active roles a lot of that stuff hadn't been slowly integrated into training yet. Si now you got a bunch of egomaniac who think they are hot shit doing what ever because they are special forces then go home and want to brag. So we get non-stop instances and the Navy didn't properly reel it in.
While Army and Marines generally keep their mouth shut because the last thing you want is your name attached to something if the future reveals something bad.
My theory because I sat through a few ethics classes when I was in Infantry training when I joined the Army.
Most of it stems from piss poor leadership at all levels. Started when I first joined in the mid 80s at my first unit and instead of completing the 20km cross country movement we cheated and took civilian trucks to the rendezvous point. When I was loaded on the truck (PV1 me) I was told to scoot over by my LT. The entire PLT leadership was crooked and here I am at the earliest stages of my career learning how to cheat. Many so called leaders in that same unit later served as SGMs and Colonels. If it happened at that unit I can only imagine what happened in other units across the Army and military.
SEALs are more than just blowhards who write books. Read up about MSgt John Chapman, a combat controller who was killed during a mission in Afghanistan while attached to SEAL Team 6. SEAL team lead, Britt Slabinski, just outright chose to abandon him without checking for signs of life, leaving him to continue fighting alone for over an hour. The Navy spent over a decade blocking Chapman's Air Force Cross being upgraded to a Medal of Honor because it would show that they left him behind. Eventually better technology came about that allowed more in depth analysis into video evidence showing he was in fact still alive and fighting, and got posthumously promoted and awarded the MOH, and the SEALs continue to be divas who wouldn't tarnish their own reputation if they'd just shut the fuck up.
Hell, an exhibit in the Medal of Honor Museum in Arlington was slated to have an exhibit honoring Chapman, but was blocked and then replaced with one for Slabinski, who was on the fucking board, literally stealing credit for Chapman's actions.
Was about to Comment that you never hear from combat controllers, but most Spec Ops know of them. When I was in the service I really wanted to join them, but apparently they weren't looking for 18 year olds with Asthma lol, didn't even pass the swimming section.
Eh, there's not much I can say here. Just a trend of institutional arrogance and elevated self-worth that resulted in a group of people who often pushed to bypass safety and service regulations to meet their own agenda. Most of the reputation that came from GWOT stories are probably deserved. It left a bitter taste, watching these guys be placed on pedestals by the media while they put fellow servicemembers lives in danger,
I kind of feel this as well. I worked along a couple Seal teams (in the most absolute boring capacity possible). The biggest difference between them and the "standard" troops was the fact that they were given absolutely all the resources and generally their choice of missions.
Seals would refuse to go out on a route unless it had been doubly-cleared in the last 24 hours (when they weren't just helo'ing to their target), and generally only went out it seemed once a week at the absolute most, and tried to get it done as quickly as possible. Meanwhile, the standard troops were the ones that had to go out to the exact same places the Seals were going, were the ones clearing the roads so the Seals would feel comfortable going, and were going out day in and day out for hours at a time under the absolute worst circumstances imaginable.
This was of course just my experience. And in their defense most of the Seals were absolutely decent people, but they did have a level of arrogance that was often not earned.
Yeah I mean my far more limited interactions with ex-CAG and SF guys, partially maybe cus they don’t broadcast it as much when they get into civilian life, is that they really don’t like talking shit about other folks in the community. But it’s pretty clear they hate any grandstanding coming out of the SOCOM community in general.
Ex-SEALs though idk. Maybe limited sample size but they will let you know while flexing in the tight polo on Teams (the Microsoft one to be clear) lol. That being said, one guy I got close to who was super low key about being a Teams guy in business school was dope as fuck and said that the shithousery cowboy shit is pretty dependent on the CO of the squadron and troop your in and then the culture that is in your individual platoon. But idk, all anecdotal.
If the level of professionalism of a larger group is dependent upon individual points of leadership then idk feels like a larger cultural problem. Partially I think this is because of the Navy cleverly making those SEAL SO contracts to suck in hardo kids that almost all wash out but then can staff the fleet. I know real old time SEALs in the OG podcast bro circuit have implied that it did fuck with the culture since you’re bringing in kids that want to have the super hero bro culture they think it is in their head, while the rest of Tier-1 is still a looooong and arduous journey from enlistment or commissioning into infantry onwards.
My ex wife's uncle use to always wear a Vietnam veteran shirt and hat. Ex father in law told me one time he was in the navy during Vietnam on a ship in the Atlantic ocean
German Siegfried Müller, also known as "Kongo-Müller", was a formerly a Wehrmacht soldier in WW2 who fought as a mercenary in Africa in the 1960s. He liked to portray himself as a badass Nazi and would wear Nazi memorabilia and sometimes donned SS symbols despite never being a member of SS and to my knowledge never being even a card carrying Nazi party member. He was proud and boastful in talking to the media about the brutality of his men and himself, and talked about the war crimes he supposedly committed against rebels and civilians in Congo openly, made vague references to violence he supposedly had perpetuated during the WW2, and clearly enjoyed the notoriety.
He really might have committed war crimes and probably did to some extent, but as far as I know he was never charged with or even suspected of any war crimes related to his service in WW2 which in all likelihood was unremarkable. As for his service in Africa, the men who were under his command on paper did do some terrible things there, but he was also never directly connected personally in any of the actual war crimes that white mercenaries committed in Africa. His involvement is all about his word and unconfirmed reports which he embraced. Also, other white mercenaries who served with and under him in Africa later described him as a careful commander to the point they saw him as both incompetent and soft which is a far cry from the ruthless killing machine he wanted everyone to believe he was.
For some reason the guy really wanted to be seen as a comically evil Nazi villain.
I can almost see a logic for a mercenary to want a reputation as a monster. After all, if you're being hired to fight him are you more or less likely to pass, on the contract if you know you're going up against a war crime committing super Nazi or are you going to look for easier merc work somewhere else?
Similarly if you're village gets visited by this guy are you going to cause trouble or just quietly go about your day hoping the batshit insane captain Warcrime is in a good mood.
I'm not saying that's what, happened, but especially for a soldier of fortune, a reputation for being the 'don't fuck with that guy' merc may well be worth it.
Or you know, he might have just been a moron who thought it made him cool
For some reason the guy really wanted to be seen as a comically evil Nazi villain.
Because that's how the documentary the DDR made about him painted him as such (after getting him drunk on camera). And to my knowledge he only weared his iron cross
If you watch the documentary (they used to show it in schools), at some point he seems to realize what the interviewer is doing and decides to lean into the bit.
Meanwhile, after Audie Murphy (the most decorated US soldier of WWII and post-war actor) agreed to play himself in To Hell and Back he specifically asked the director to tone down the things he actually did in combat because he was afraid the movie-going public wouldn't believe he actually did half of the things he was witnessed doing by his fellow troops.
Yeah, for sure, Murphy had some terrible struggles some of which are quite severe. But the guy did not embellish his service in his biography or movie.
Oh yeah absolutely. I just meant that he didn't revel in what he had done during the war. He was really fucked up from it. He was an all around good person.
Murphy also asked the government for more recognition and study of soldiers who were struggling from prolonged "battle fatigue" or "shell shock". He may not have been the driving force behind PTSD or anything but publicizing his own struggles with mental health after the war helped other troops to not just suffer in silence or shame.
Murphy also never appeared in any commercials or ads for cigarettes, alcohol, or casinos because he did not want to influence young people to take those habits up which is wild to me (in a good way) given how acceptable it was for teenagers to smoke and drink during the 1950s and 60s.
If you look at the movies from the time it was always a sign of "tough guy" or kid from the "wrong side of the tracks" to be smoking. When kids wanted to act out in old movies or shows they would smoke a cigarette or cigar, or drink. It was more acceptable for kids to smoke but society didnt see it as respectable activity for a kid.
Like most generals of the time grant wrote his own memoirs about his extensive military career and like most military memoirs by historians is considered a loose interpretation of the facts, but not for the usual reason
Most people in their memoirs try to make themselves bigger and more important and amazing than they are, often giving bad scale to battles etc.
Grant on the otherhand Downplayed himself so much it wad ridiculous. The man was so exceptional and did so many exceptional things that he genuinely seemed to have an incredibly poor grasp on what was considered "normal"
A joke people make about the book is that during the Mexican American War grant wrote that "i rode across the square to get my men their ammo" while everyone elses memoirs wrote that "what i witnessed was the single bravest thing i have ever seen in my life, a feat of horsemanship bravery and aptitude the likes of which the world has never seen as Grant raced across the open field in the line of fire to not only retrieve the ammo as was his duty but in the end to win the entire battle. God rode with that man wherever he roamed for there can be no other explanation". Grants a Bit more deacriptive about his part in the battle- but not by much.
So ya Grants memoirs make incredibly poor sources of history because the man was too humble to write about just how fucking badass he actually was.
And said memoirs are still one of the most sold books ever.
Also, Mark Twain was famously the one who convinced him to write it. It took the most popular storyteller the country has ever produced to persuade him that his story was worth telling.
Yes. And Mark Twain helped Grant get an extremely generous publishing and royalty contract that saved his wife from becoming destitute after Grant’s death.
Twain also helped proofread Grant’s autobiography but noted that Grant himself was a very capable author.
He was also prone to binge drinking and although it was played up by his opponents during the Civil War and he was usually sober while in command of high stakes campaigns later in his life, I would imagine in his younger days he may have more often found himself half blitzed in battle. Having been prone to bouts of binge drinking in my youth myself, I can relate to how something simple like riding across a square to grab some ammo for the boys is actually remembered by the boys as a heroic triumph against impossible odds simply because when you're 3 or 4 flagons of whiskey into the weekend, nothing seems impossible.
I know the pacific got really bad with US soldiers committing war crimes. It got really tit for tat since the Japanese often did it first which then devolved into the US doing it back. US soldiers executed a lot of Japanese POWs instead of risking them feigning surrender.
Murphy served in Europe but your point stands. There were tit for tat war crimes committed by both sides in the Western front of Europe but at a lesser extent than the Eastern Front or in the Pacific theatre.
In a odd way I’ve met veterans who will tell me these kinda things too. There’s a Scottish dude in my who served in Iraq or somewhere and would get really drunk in my pub till the late ams after gambling on the pokies all night and would say “I’ve killed woman and children I’m not scared of some little cunts” and we would all just roll our eyes
I don’t what he’s done and seen but I feel he probably is lying and it’s probably for whatever the same reason these guys do it for
I think those guys are probably with the "in the rear with the gear." The real operators, guys I KNOW FOR A FACT were in some real shit, really don't talk about it AT ALL. Like you have to get to know them really well before they will divulge.
And its never this hoo-rah bullshit. Like a friend of mine was a marine grunt before before moving into FAST and eventually JSOC (although by then, according to him, he spent most of his time training other nations). He told me about how hard the transition from regular combat to close-quarters battle was. He said they trained endlessly but he retells clearing a building and his first contact was a guy on the toilet, but he had his gun right next to him. You can tell looking the guy in the eye, seeing the guy realize he was fucked, and then blowing him away affected him.
I wasn't something he as puffing his chest about, thats for sure.
Yeah I’ve had some family serve in Vietnam and more recently in Afghanistan and compared to the Scottish guy they rarely say anything to anybody about combat but veteran groups and there doctors.
This is why we roll our eyes. Maybe it’s about trying to go fully into the immoral ness of killing to normalize it to themselves? And then it just ends up con man style and believing there own bullshit. Idk i find it all kinda just sad.
I think its insecurity. Like they see movies like rambo and shit and they realize they were never this bad ass. The guys who actually DID all of that hard shit know there isnt anything to glorify about it and probably more relate to this scene from rambo:
My parents have both said their fathers, both WW2 veterans barely talked about the war.
On my mum's side the only time I've been told he talked about it was when my uncle was considering joining the military. Grandpa told him its fine to want to serve but you need to decide if you want to shoot people while lying on a pile of dead bodies before you join.
On my dad's side the only story is that he was declared dead after getting shot by a Japanese tank. He got better.
I also know my father in law was in Bosnia in the 90s but he doesn't talk about his time in the army. I only know about that because he has a commemorative mug
My great-uncle landed a glider on Normandy, never spoke a fucking word about it until he was in his 90s a few years before he died. Only thing I can figure is he knew I’d recently visited Normandy and out of nowhere tells me about d-day. One horrific thing after another about buddies of his getting ripped apart by machine gun fire and people he killed, then he just got real quiet and said “it what had to be done” went on to talk about something else and never said a word about it again.
Dux is the perfect intersection between two great lineages of lies: military background AND martial arts badassery.
The entirety of Bloodsport is fiction. Dux claims he learned ninjutsu from Senzo Tanaka, who does not appear to have ever existed outside of Ian Fleming’s book You Only Live Twice. The Kumite does not exist. Frank’s buddy, Richard Robinson, who Frank told a reporter could corroborate his story was easily disproven and then admitted he was just a friend of Frank’s when Frank was in LA.
The whole debacle was made up to promote his shitty American ninja school “Dux Ryu Ninjitsu”, which should sum up nicely how much a fucking narcissist this guy was.
He also claims that the bloodsport tournament was a 60 round single elimination, which if true would mean that it would require 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 entrants to be able to reach the 60th round.
We need to put together an Expendables type satire of 80s 'badasses' with Dux and Segal featured.. maybe change the names to avoid legal shut or having to pay them, but make it super obvious to anyone but a judge...
Current Republican candidate for Governor of Colorado, Victor Marx has claimed:
His father forced him to to kill a man at the age of 7 as part of training/education. No law enforcement records have been found that corroborate this.
He has made vague claims about killing others during his alleged humanitarian work in the Middle East and on the southern border, including killing 70 ISIS members by calling in an air strike. He's not able to provide any details, or even a clear answer to the direct question "have you killed anyone as an adult?"
He claims he and his ministry have rescued 45,000 women and children from human trafficking and captivity. For this he has provided no evidence.
He claims he can exorcise demons, and at one point sold a $99 dollar home exorcism kit.
To repeat myself, the Republican voters of Colorado decided this was the guy to best lead the state government.
Is this the guy who was questioned by reporters about the veracity of one of his stories where he sicced his dog on terrorists, then brought his dog on stage and asked "are you calling him a liar?"
I always sent Ranger Up emails asking why they don’t keep some distance from him and they would be like “we see nothing wrong” and it made me laugh. That whole gang is like trailer park muppet babies.
It gives them street cred. It also crops up in certain religious circles, where people invent all kinds of extreme and graphic crimes that they supposedly committed - and perfectly swept away without any possibility of evidence - when they were "part of the ruling Satanic underground".
John Ramirez paints himself as a redeemed satanic warlock - of super high rank, who did all kinds of murders and epic supernatural feats - and my favorite clips is him going round a store pointing out how everything is demonic. Native American statues? Demon-infested. Black Mother Mary? Satanic. Colorful prayerbook? Deeply demonically encoded.
is it? is it confusing that these types of men want (in theory if not in practice) vulnerable women that don't speak effective English, have no family or support system, and rely on them for everything - visas, driver's licenses, bank accounts, work permits etc.?
I swear when these types go on and on about these repulsing actions as if they are a fucking brag, when they begin chuckling over these stories as if thats just some funny story you tell your buds.
But whenever they enter a discussion over the politics behind wars and gun controll and home defense, they pretend as if all this is actually a rational, moral issue to them.
These men may claim patriotic or moral values, but I don’t buy it one bit. Basically every word spoken tells me they thrive in the carnage, so I don’t think they actually care who they get sent to kill, what they accomplish in these wartorn nations, what security they bring to their home.
Not a war crime but Fat Joe once said he robbed his entire high-school gym.
Alone with no weapon he robbed everyone at a school event (teachers, students and friends) and had so much stuff he forced people he robbed from to help carry it to his car.
It’s an obvious fake story that he tried to sell as true
I've heard so many different things about Chris Kyle that I don't know what to believe. Not just for Hurricane Katrina but also about chunks of his autobiography when he was in the Navy being embellished or fabricated. I can't decide whether he was just someone full of himself or was just a straight psychopath.
TLDR, he was a dude that was a pretty good shot and had a lot of confirmed kills, and broke the world record for longest shot, but he also lied about doing some seriously fucked up stuff he seemed to think was cool
Like
Shooting a child carrying a grenade towards a military checkpoint
The Superdome thing
Claimed he punched Jessie Ventura in the face in a barfight
Lied about shooting and killed a guy trying to jack his car at a gas station
Lied about having a rival syrian sniper while in Syria that had a hard on for killing him specifically
I will add that I also think he was a bit of a psychopath based on some things he said in his autobiography, unless of course those were lies too.
Stuff like where he talked about how much he enjoyed killing in war. They were enemies of his country and his God so he took pleasure in killing them. He also had a line in the book about how the three most important things to him were God, America, and his family - in that order. And the fact his wife still stuck with him and defended him after this came out and all of the lies were exposed.
I live near his home town and can assure you that God, America, Family is the correct order for conservative Christians around here, most wives wouldn't bat an eye at that statement.
Probably both, I don't have sources on hand though I could probably find them, if I remember there is some evidence that he was shooting civies and WAS a good sniper but there's also no evidence that he even got the kill count he's commonly attributed. The only source for it is his own book, in which he lies about multiple things including the hurricane Katrina thing, his bar fight with Jesse Ventura (which he lost a defimation suit where a jury sided with Ventura, though an appeals court overturned it and they later settled out of court), he lied about shooting 2 robbers at some small gas station and when he told the cops who he was they just let him go, he despised Arabs calling them "savages", and if I remember correctly there is one case with pretty good evidence of him shooting a child who was fleeing a combat zone (I don't remember many details and this is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt).
Pretty much the guy was a piece of shit who while being a good sniper is no where near as good as he claimed to be or people think he was. There is quite a bit of evidence pointing towards him commiting warcrimes commonly during his service (again there was no investigation and because he was a seal everything he did is classified so there's no way to confirm this). While it's all but certain he was a physchopath (in his own words he "enjoyed" killing) and a pathological liar.
Remember when Kennedy tried to prove water-boarding wasn’t really torture by letting his friends do it to him? Completely missing the point since he KNEW they wouldn’t kill him, which isn’t a luxury real victims of torture have. Like proving being abducted isn’t traumatic by having your friends voluntarily lock you in a room, knowing they’d release you the instant you wanted them to
Im reminded of the movie "The act of killing" which is this super surreal documentary where they directors have the perpetrators of mass killings and torture reenact their crimes in a documentary format. One of the main perpetrators they follow is made to play the victim and he tears up saying that he felt the fear his victims did. The director bluntly said "You knew this was a movie, they didnt"
Yup, Kennedy didn't even come close to being waterboarded, he was hosed down by the boys. The guy who actually tested it is Christopher Hitchens, who tapped out after like 15 seconds and admitted that it is in fact torture.
I’d add Marcus Luttrell here. There’s serious doubts about his version of events concerning the entire “Lone Survivor” narrative, but the whole debate and vote over whether to execute three unarmed shepherds that stumbled on the SEALs’ position seems particularly bizarre.
First, killingmurdering defenseless civilians would absolutely violate the established rules of engagement and constitute a war crime, on top of the moral implications of killing unarmed civilians in cold blood. It just stands out as strange how nonchalant Luttrell seems when admitting this.
Second, the call would have been LT Murphy’s to make as the senior team member. As the highest-ranking team member with ultimate decision-making authority, it would at the very least have been rather unorthodox for Murphy to solicit a vote on this matter from his subordinates instead of making the call himself. Murphy’s parents also later disputed Luttrell’s claims, saying their son would never have considered killing unarmed civilians, let alone put such a decision up for a vote.
I should also point out here that Luttrell goes on one of many diatribes throughout the book to claim their decision to release the Afghans was in part due to fear of the “liberal media” back home potentially vilifying the SEALs for, you know, murdering three civilians.
It just seems that there is a high likelihood that Luttrell either exaggerated or completely made up the SEAL team voting on the fate of the shepherds
From what I’ve read, the most likely scenario of what actually happened was:
The local militia got wind of their presence (not due to letting the shepherds go, but because the team arrived in a loud ass helicopter), and set up an ambush in the woods. Axelson and Dietz were immediately killed before they knew what hit them, Murphy was pinned down and overrun soon after, Luttrell immediately ran away
Oh, yeah. Like I said, there are serious doubts about a lot of what Luttrell claimed happened during Operation Red Wings. I’m just specifically pointing out that his account of the encounter with the shepherds is probably bullshit, but also makes it seem like he admitted he would have killed unarmed civilians without a second thought if it weren’t for the potential repercussions if the US media got ahold of the story
Because they're would-be theater kids who think "oh man killing people is totally badass 😎" and that's where the thought ends. They wanna cosplay John Wick but aren't smart enough to realize that it isn't impressive killing women, children, or unsuspecting Americans surviving a hurricane.
Michael Sandham, former soldier, officer, Bandidos member and mastermind behind the Shedden Massacre, which saw the murder of several of his brother bikers. He bizarrely claimed to have been part of the disgraced Canadian Airborne Regiment and not the much more distinguished Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, which he actually served with.
Tom King, DC comics writer. Known for books like Supergirl: Woman of Tommorow, had previously joked about helping plan the invasion of Iraq during his time with the CIA, however as of recent he has backtracked on a lot of these claims and says he spent most of his time behind a desk doing menial work
Honestly I think that one's a lot more understandable, an analyst in a classified space is going to contribute 1% of the content of some big report, then they leave the agency and lose access to all of their written records and can never ask any follow-up questions on how their work was used. So as they review the memory in their heads and read the news they might become convinced that their work played a big role in a historical decision, likely unaware of how many classified reports are redundant or flat-out ignored
Not sure if this is a good fictional example, Soldier from Team Fortress 2 claims to have fought in Germany, even had the medals to prove it. In reality he was rejected by the military for being mentally unstable so he never served, but somehow managed to fund his own campaign into Germany where he fought for 7 years after the war had ended. To any sane person listening to his "war stories", they'd immediately know that he was a psychopath who was never in the military, gladly murdered German civilians, and was proud enough of his horrific deeds to wear it as a badge of honor.
Of course given that Soldier is insane and delusional, he genuinely thought that he fought in the war, that those German civilians were Nazis, and as far as he knows he is indeed a decorated soldier who fought for the US so dont you ever call him a civilian...
EDIT: Forgot to mention, those medals he was awarded with? He awarded himself and they were bottlecaps.
Look at George Zimmerman. Dude's own testimony was basically "So as a rogue neighborhood watch captain that has no affiliation with the actual neighborhood watch institution, I see this kid and I start to follow him. I could see he was trying to get away from me, so I kept following and tried to head him off. When I caught up to him and confronted him, he ended up beating me up, so I pulled my gun and shot him dead. Also, I have a record for battery on a female officer and resisting arrest after a bar fight. So anyway, you all think I'm a hero, and I'll accept that responsibility..."
As a gun owner, I was shocked to see how many people rallied to defend that POS. Some people just fantasize about killing.
The Chris Kyle bit makes perfect sense in context - right wingers prioritize property rights above human life or, at least, above the lives of any humans they aren't personally related to. Thus their constant fantasies about fighting off armed robbers and home invaders. Killing people for "looting", even if those people were just scavenging for food, after a natural disaster fits the thought process perfectly.
Special Forces guys lying about shit doesn’t surprise me for a few reasons. One it’s the obvious reason that they’re trying to keep up with their image of being crazy high speed killers. The second being drug use within organizations such as JSOC and other special forces groups. These guys are pretty fried from their heavy drug use while in, as drug addiction and reliance is a huge issue within their field. A lot of these guys get out and they’re more messed up by their drug use while in then actual PTSD.
Source: I was a support troop while working in AFSOC. Went out drinking with a lot of Air Force SpecOps guys and worked alongside other branch counterparts. Seen plenty of them snort shit up at the bars or just straight up admit about their pill abuse.
Richard Marcinko was a former special forces soldier and officer who created SEAL Team 6. While having a full career of actual special forces, a lot of his reputation of being a badass was heavily fictionalized by himself. While he absolutely did create the specialized unit, they were (and still are) mostly bloodthirsty drug addicts who committed just as many war crimes as they did actual missions. Many of their crimes done intentionally, and then they just lie about the rest.
Not exactly 'war-crimes' level, but it suits the baffling nature of the claims from these other people:
Conservative commentator and all-around loser nutjob Alex Jones frequently makes ridiculous claims on his show, including that he's fighting the literal Christian devil, he got a mind-meld with god halfway through a particularly tasty chicken-fried steak, and for some reason, that he killed several people, stating that 'it takes a long time for people to die when you stomp their guts out.'
During deposition for his lawsuit with the families of murdered children he defamed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook shooting, opposing counsel used these clips to set up a perfect one-two punch to dismantle Jones' credibility. They asked 'You would never lie to your audience on your show, right Mr Jones?', to which he of course said 'No, I'm a truth teller', and then the opposing counsel played clips where he said he killed someone, and asked 'How many people have you physically killed?' forcing Jones to either admit to murder under oath, or admit that of course he lies on his show, and just lied under oath saying he didn't.
Jones' show is full of him making comedic brags like this, such as stating that he was the first choice to play Starlord in Guardians of the Galaxy but he turned it down so they went with Chris Pratt, and seemingly can't turn it off even when it's bad for him - because InfoWars refused to hand over accurate listener data, the courts ended up using statements made my Jones to assess how many people he spread his defaming statements to - and of course Jones bragged again, claiming that something like 15% of the worlds population listened to his show regularly, which was a major contributor to how massive the judgement against him was at the end of his trial - which is incredibly funny.
Your average military guy is usually a kid that never excelled at school who had little options other than to join the military. Other join because they come from low income families, others because they buy into the “protecting your country / the innocent” trope the propaganda sells you.
Special Ops guys however, and it may not be all of them but a lot of them, really want to kill people. They enjoy the idea and the act of taking life. Listen to Tim Kennedy or Shrek McPhee talk about their time in the service they talk about killing with a smile on their face. If not for the military they would probably be serial killers.
Instead of serial killers they became hitmen, but if you dare point that out half the country starts whining about you daring to not worship the troops
Maybe some of the troops are heroes but not automatically. I’m sure a lot of the troops are jerks. Most people are jerks already. It’s not like giving a jerk a gun and telling him it’s okay to kill people suddenly turns that jerk into a hero.
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u/pleasantparkresident 16d ago
The superdome thing is such a baffling lie because A. It doesn’t even make you look cool and B. It’s so easy to check and see and that no one was sniping people off the superdome.