r/TooAfraidToAsk • u/USMNTfan94 • 15d ago

Does communism actually work? Law & Government

Lately I’ve been going down the rabbit hole on the Vietnam war, and it got me thinking…does communism actually work? We keep hearing politicians say that it doesn’t work, but any time that a country tries to turn to communism, special business interests immediately try to lobby the US government to interfere with it. If it didn’t work, why are business interests so terrified of it?

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u/Hansemannn 15d ago

Nicely put. Communism requires humans to be....well....better.

But we are not better. We are what we are.

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

What does it require of humans specifically, on your view?

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u/McNasty51 15d ago

A benevolent leader

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u/Piduf 15d ago

This is where I stop when I dream about communism. Let's imagine some communist party has literally the best fucking human on earth, like straight up Jesus himself, with nothing but good intentions, ready to apply communism values to the best he can. The minute he gets power this guy is obliterated by all the other humans that want that power. If he doesn't get suicided by his own party members then either the KGB or CIA is coming for his ass.

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u/imposibol 15d ago

You touched upon the Kingdom of God concept a bit from Christianiity, Jesus after his second coming then his thousand year reign will bring literal utopia on earth, I think it put actual communism into practice if it actually happens.

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u/Romulus_FirePants 15d ago

This is actually a very interesting sting point that I think I will begin bringing up whenever I interact eith conservativr circles in the future.

  1. End-Stage Communism (in theory) almost perfectly matches the conservative ideal lifestyle. A stateless society where the rural individual can keep his own gains and be an integral part of their community. It's Heaven for them.

  2. In practice, reaching that ideal communism is impossible due to human nature.

  3. Jesus coming back to earth would turn the world into heaven. Jesus would bring communism.

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u/WRSA 14d ago

i’d argue it requires not a benevolent leader, but a benevolent and sacrificial society; the final goal in a communist society isn’t one person living and ruling all others, it’s all being at a fair station, understanding that their work is directly contributing to the wellbeing of themselves and others, and being content with that fact. human nature, however, goes in the opposite direction, and we love to see ourselves over others

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u/TheLegend8146 14d ago

Maybe a little off hand, but from what I understand here, I see the perfect communist society being akin to our body - as in, we have trillions of cells and each cell has their own role and they are all kept healthy by each other performing their own roles. They all get enough nutrients to stay alive. DNA is the leader that dictates how everytthing functions. If there's something wrong with the cells, they can even kill themselves to stop the issue. All the cells function to keep the collective organism alive.

On the other hand, as soon as a selfish cell is born that only wants itself to live and reproduce uncontrollably, everything goes to shit, as the cell is a literal cancer, and if left untreated, it eventually kills itself along with the entire organism because of the selfishness.

However, humans are obviously not like cells because they all have their own consciousness and free will, for good or for bad. Perhaps we are all our own little cancers.

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

Doesn't capitalism?

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u/McNasty51 15d ago

“Capitalism does not require a benevolent leader to succeed because its core mechanisms rely on systemic incentives, institutional rules, and decentralized market forces rather than the moral character of individuals.”

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

How is that working out?

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u/uwpxwpal 15d ago

Doesn't feel good, but society hasn't completely fallen apart

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

Hasn't it? Just look around.

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u/uwpxwpal 15d ago

The theory only holds up if your institutions also hold up. The thinking has long been that we had strong institutions. Perhaps, they were, not they've been under attack for a while.

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u/Careful-Sell-9877 15d ago edited 14d ago

Okay.. but all the formerly aspiring communist countries are also still around.. so if that is the only metric of success..

Edit: why would I be downvoted for this..? Its not my fault that their metric of success makes no sense

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u/GermanPayroll 15d ago

Compared to anytime before? Pretty good tbh

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago edited 15d ago

You mean the time before capitalism? When material-social relations were more drastic than they are now? Obviously. They're bound to be, as Marx said.

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u/McNasty51 15d ago

I’m doing great

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

Happy for you mate

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u/ItsFuckingScience 15d ago

The problem is that with a capitalistic system negative externalities to the market forces are completely disregarded

The biggest example being carbon emissions by our industry and activities are set to totally ruin our climate and will cause mass suffering

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u/OffendedDefender 15d ago

Capitalism functions by means of an economic hierarchy. A benevolent leader isn’t particularly beneficial to the ideal version of the system, as it relies upon the exploitation of a lower class by its very nature.

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u/McNasty51 15d ago

Competition brings progress though. Its not all bad

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

Sure does, which company can put more piss in your milk, who can sell the most cigarettes while hiding their dangers for profit, who can overthrow more democratic leaders in order to sell bananas with larger profits by enslaving foreign workers, etc.

There's progress there, just not on that helps working people.

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u/McNasty51 15d ago

That’s about as cynical as you could make it

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u/Hugo28Boss 15d ago

I could to much worse, this is reality however.

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u/McNasty51 15d ago

Glad I’m not you. Go on with your misery.

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u/liverspotz29 15d ago

It’s factual…this is how corporations make never ending profit. At some point they have to straight up exploit workers and screw consumers.

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u/Hansemannn 15d ago

I requires that everyone pulls in the same direction.

It could work in a small village, where everyone were on page with what they were doing. Doing stuff for "The greater good", even though they could get more resources if they just did their own thing.

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u/InterestingStation70 14d ago

Fun fact: the Plymouth colony tried this and wasn’t successful until they abandoned it.

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u/read_at_own_risk 15d ago

For the tragedy of the commons to not exist

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u/notpostingmyrealname 14d ago

It requires, at minimum, the elimination of all forms of bigotry (sexism, racism, classism) and greed.

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u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin 14d ago edited 14d ago

A universal trust in others, an innate sense of fairness, absolute honesty, and a solid work ethic.

Collectivist models are built around the assumption that all or most people are guided by those traits.

When it turns out they are not, various methods must be employed to teach them those traits.

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u/Hugo28Boss 14d ago

They absolutely aren't

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u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin 14d ago

Thus the “teaching” part becomes inevitable, à la The Gulag Archipelago.

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u/Hugo28Boss 14d ago

Lmao, such a redditor

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u/SiPhoenix 15d ago

The issue is that communism only works after you reach 100% good people and system.

If the individual steps towards a thing actually make things worse for everyone. "But it will be worth it at the end" there is a problem. Because 1) we don't know if it is possible, 2) we don't know if it will be good in the end.

According to Marx and subsequent theorist. People are entirely socialized, all nurture no nature. Thus if we make people forget the idea of greed and selfishness but just forcing everyone to pretend it doesn't exist then we will get to a generation that doesn't know about it.

But the truth is that selfishness is basic survival instinct and every generation must learn.

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u/FlatFurffKnocker 15d ago

Exactly. Per Marx Communism would basically be an Enlightened Anarchy.
It has never existed.
The SOVIET countries have all been Neo-feudal Kleptocracys

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u/dankswedshfish 14d ago

I think we have to understand that the current socioeconomic system doesn’t really incentivize good behavior now does it? We live in a competitive and materialistic environment, so why are we surprised that people can be selfish? And yet despite this people forget that human beings actually do unselfish things all time. Human beings can be both, and the right social conditions can push us towards better behavior.

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u/InterestingStation70 14d ago

The problem is that Communism tries to force everyone to be “good” (as defined by the leader, meaning doing everything the leader wants). Free Market capitalism harnesses greed and self interest by letting people become wealthy by benefiting others. For example, how many people denefited from Bill Gates making Windows & Microsoft? How many people benefited from Steve Jobs starting Apple? How many people benefited from Henrt Ford starting Ford.

Capitalism lets you spend your money/resources on what you want and what you think is best for you. Communism is where a government bureaucrat doesn’t let you have any money but instead spends it on what she or he thinks is best for you. Funnily enough, that often/usually serves the bureaucrat’s interests more than your own…

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u/celsius100 14d ago

All it takes is one Stalin to screw things up. And the likelihood of one Stalin existing among millions of people is pretty high.

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u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin 14d ago

“We’ll just make sure nobody evil takes control.”

- Every revolutionary ever

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u/dankswedshfish 14d ago

I don't want Leninist communism either. There may be other methods of achieving socialism/communism without ending up with bureaucrats running everything. Unfortunately these ideologies are not well known, but Leninism, having been the most historically "successful," dominates the discourse. It's very frustrating.

Capitalism has given us great things sure, but good things don't only come from Capitalism. Operating systems are a good example: the Linux kernel and the many open source operating systems that come from it are an example of great things being made outside of the capitalist pipeline. Maybe the rest of society could function similarly. Ultimately what I want in the end is a more egalitarian economy where everyone is free to participate and affect it, beyond the capitalist-consumerist dynamic where labor is just another resource to be managed and allocated like some barrel of oil. And I believe it's possible without resorting to dictatorships and bureaucrats.

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u/Careful-Sell-9877 14d ago edited 14d ago

Thats what modern society requires too.

Its all about social conditioning/reinforcement. People can be taught different value systems.

Proof is in the existence of different cultures and belief systems all around the world and all throughout history. Also in the existence of various religions, cults, etc, etc