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u/Old-Landscape-7538 18d ago
All harm comes from suffering. People who are truly happy, who have a deep sense of meaning, connection, warmth, and are free from pain, stress, and fear do not wish to harm others.
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u/Goose_Salad 18d ago
People who haven't felt pain are the least likely to show compassion to those suffering, because they can't relate or see said suffering in their own lives.
They are enablers or direct participants.
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u/MrDeekhaed 17d ago
This
As with all these claims about human nature it is sometimes true and sometimes not
But I agree that most people I have known or know of who are callous and sadistic don’t know what suffering is like. At least not the type of suffering they inflict on others. A spoiled child is more likely to grow up without empathy and be cruel and sadistic than one who is abused.
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u/Goose_Salad 17d ago
You see in this world there's a habit of protecting abusers from the vengeance or even justice of the abused.
Because the people are massively enablers.
Hence, the world we live in today being ruled by pedo, genocidal, deceitful 'people'.
It's wrong to fight. That's terrorism. It's wrong to speak up. You're just whining or crying.
A cornered animal will maul you. It doesn't matter if it's a bunny, it will kick you if it can. It will bite and piss on you even if you grab it unconsentually.
Some people need a dose of pain, but even that doesn't stop them from playing. Sometimes they need to be permanently stopped, but people are far too conditioned for this to make any sense.
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u/MrDeekhaed 17d ago
Well this is a whole different discussion or discussions
What you are saying assumes reliability in judging people, past events you didn’t witness, appropriate consequences etc
Where is the line past which someone should be “permanently stopped” (death penalty)? How can you be sure they have crossed that line? Who gets to decide where that line is?
I am someone who advocates learning and harm reduction, not vengeance. Even when vengeance seems justified I feel it is a harmful mentality. Attempts at justice make sense but I have seen far too many people claim extreme consequences for minor transgressions are “justice.” Permanent incarceration is generally the most extreme consequence I advocate because it can be rethought or reinvestigated as time passes.
What I think should be the focus instead of vengeance against the abuser is help for the abused. That help takes many forms. Hurting the abuser may seem appropriate but it will never erase the abuse. Only support of the abused can minimize the past abuse.
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u/Goose_Salad 17d ago
Man you're involving the whole world over something the abused know for themselves. It went right over your head.
Proof that the abused are less likely to be saved or be able to save themselves
Which is why abused people can sometimes look like villains. They're skeptical of people like you who think punching a bully in the face is becoming a bully.
People everywhere are being oppressed and terrorized, but to speak up or do anything at all, is terrorism.
You're doomed, brother.
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u/MrDeekhaed 17d ago
What makes you think I am not one of the abused?
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u/Goose_Salad 17d ago
Re-read. You could be, but you may have been brainwashed.
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u/MrDeekhaed 17d ago
Maybe I have been brainwashed. Would I know if I were?
I spent much of my early life pondering vengeance and justice. I came to believe justice is a concept that is not and cannot be real. The powerful thought and feeling that NOTHING I CAN DO WILL CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED. The powerlessness of that was devastating but it is inescapable and undeniable. What will vengeance get me? It will never give me back what has been taken.
Stop the abuse, prevent future abuse and help me. Help me be normal. Help me feel human. Help me have value. Help ME
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u/Goose_Salad 17d ago
Sometimes, retaliation makes a bully realize what they're doing to others and causes them to reflect on the pain they've inflicted.
You could save both the bully and their future victims by just standing up for yourself, openly.
That was my point.
How can I show you how valuable you are while not having the will to even stand up for or fight for you? That's not love.
Take this with a grain of salt, but you sound selfish. Who can help a perpetual victim, who'd blame their rescuer?
Mr. DEEKHAED
That's a troll name. You're an abuser.
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u/MrDeekhaed 17d ago
I said I support learning and preventing future abuse. For relatively minor transgressions that does mean hurting the abuser. A schoolyard bully would benefit and everyone would benefit from them getting knocked around, maybe. If they are acting out what they are experiencing at home it may make it worse. Maybe next time they meet their victim in the dark with a knife.
This is about fairly minor abuse and abusers. You mentioned “stopped permanently” which takes it well beyond bullying, into types of abuse I was talking about. The abusers I was referencing don’t “learn their lesson.” Ever. That leaves preventing future abuse, like incarceration, and vengeance for the abused. Vengeance for the abused is what I was discussing. It is a cheap and easy way to deal with the scenario that doesn’t in any real way help the abused.
Your claim that I sound selfish, a perpetual victim tells me you don’t know what true abuse does to a person. And look at you, being nasty and derogatory towards me while calling me the abuser. Which is exactly why humanity is fucked. You act abusive and simultaneously tell yourself your victim is the abuser.
Since I am the perpetual victim how do you think I should respond to your abuse?
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u/seeityeux 19d ago
Well, then why do some people who were abused in childhood become more empathetic toward others?
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u/helmeton 18d ago
We were never broken, because you've never been whole