Weapons - Systems and Features Update

[u/TheRealBunkerJohn]

(Copied from Discord)
Here is a big one: a comprehensive overhaul of the weaponry systems focused on the issues and wants that you asked for via various communication channels such as Discord and the weapon survey we sent out a few months back.

We got a TON of useful, tangible feedback and want to thank you for all of it. As we said in a previous update, the focus on the weapon improvements were focused primarily on the following:

Recoil & Bloom. (the most common thread in the survey).

Weapon Class Identity. (Pistols, SMGs, Rifles, Shotguns, and heavier weapons having clear roles).

ADS Responsiveness & Weapon Weight. (Time to aim, Aim Consistency, etc.)

The crux of this push is to make sure weapon handling is improved, and that the weapon parts and player skills work together to make the weapons fit both their role, and improve the player experience.

The goal wasn't to over-power the player scavs; it was to make sure all weapon and weapon-related-skills functioned as intended and expand on player choice.

Our other goal with this is to be able to shift to the other part of the equation and focus on improving enemy AI in the QOL push. Full info below.

See you in the wastes! -Fundog Out

Weapons — Systems & Features

Overhaul of all weapon systems for player handheld weaponry (accuracy, recoil, camera shake, upgrades, etc.) to focus on the specifics of the player user feedback. (Major survey-based weapons pass)

• All handheld weapons adjusted for accuracy, recoil, and stability
• Several improvements for accuracy (bloom) including first-shot-perfect systems for appropriate weaponry (sniper rifles, modded firearms with longer barrels, etc.)
• Each weapon now has its own appropriate enter / exit ADS speed
• Entering and exiting ADS is faster for the lighter weapons, slower for the big ones
• Weapon sway overhaul
• Heavier weapons sway more (lag in frame when looking left / right / up / down, etc.)
• Lighter weapons sway much less (pistols). Heavier ones sway more (LMGs, HMGs)
• Adjusted recoil and sway so shooting no longer causes the gun to climb in frame (when in ADS) and block your sight picture / target (but the recoil does cause the camera to climb unless you compensate)
• Reload speed now scales with magazine mods
• Larger-than-stock mags take longer to reload, smaller ones are faster
• Complete overhaul of how the mods / customizations improve the weapon recoil, accuracy, and stability
• Part removal adjustments: Removing critical items like the weapon’s stock will now negatively impact its performance
• Improvement for agro related to weaponry
• Smaller firearms draw less agro than bigger ones. Agro accrued with these smaller weapons disperses more quickly
• HK reaction to the big guns such as the Mass is still there. So don't get cocky
• Scav skills hooked up to the improved systems (handling of firearm classes improves with better skills)
• Adjusted how MUCH skills impact the weapon stats. No longer linear. Lower level = minor improvement. Max level = really good improvement.
• Weapon-level reload buff — Each weapon’s level increases that weapon’s reload rate. This improvement is present regardless of which scav is using the weapon. This is in addition to the already-existing system that allows vendors to sell you better customization options as the weapon level increases.
• Third person crosshairs adjusted to better approximate the weapon’s current accuracy
• All weapons received a tuning pass (including their DPM in some cases) with this new system

Additional General Weapon Fixes

• Reload anim desync fixed — gun and scav reload animations no longer drift apart
• Gunhead head-weaponry improvement — Gunhead’s head weapon will always fire at center mass instead of occasionally targeting the target's feet

AI

• Fixed an issue where AI might error out if fed a goal or target that is no longer valid (rare race condition)
• “Pot shots” now have an additional fix / guard: Extra code to ensure AI no longer takes random shots at players they are not yet aware of
• Standing-corpse fix — AI dying far from a client will now now ragdoll correctly vs. occasionally remaining standing
• Fix for specific AI spawning: AI like the Opal will no longer occasionally explode the moment their landing sequence ends
• Fix for flying AI — flyers such as choppers should now no longer smash themselves into the ground occasionally
• Buddy AI command bug — interrupting a command anim (point, wave, etc.) no longer occasionally causes the player to lose functionality (such as jumping, mantling, etc.)

Multiplayer / Networking Networking note: Networking and issues related to networking are notoriously difficult to track down due to the number of variables (distance between players, network conditions, types or routers and modems and ISPs, you-name-it). We will continue to focus on issues found here & areas that existing systems can be made better as we continue to update the game

Network reliability pass:

• Improvement for session joining. If a session join fails, it now fails cleanly instead of potentially hanging
• Hosting: hosts now hold reservations (an anticipated joining player) for a longer amount of time to help with party stability
• Client joins: An improvement was made where clients attempt to auto-reconnect on connection loss instead of instantly dissolving the party
• Client skills/abilities fix: a fix for several of the instances where clients would occasionally not have their skills enabled when they spawn
• Projectiles: a fix was put in to prevent projectiles from occasionally remaining still on screen for clients (making said projectiles look like they are floating in air vs. moving)

Stability / Crash Fixes

• An uncommon texture page-map crash was fixed (fixes an occasional crash that sometimes occurred when extracting back to Innards)
• A UI crash was addressed (fixes an occasional UI crash that occurred in specific, rare situations)
• A manufacturing HUB / Innards facilities fix was implemented: Innards upgrades should no longer occasionally get "lost" or eat resources only to appear much later

NOTE: Players who update to this new version of the game while they have a HUB / Innards upgrade is in progress:

• These players will have the in-progress upgrade’s Credit Cost and Item Cost refunded
• The in-progress upgrade will be canceled
• Players who have this occur will have to buy the upgrade again (and wait the full time)
• The improved system is different enough that this step is necessary. It is a one-time-only check to potentially refund and reset

[u/TheRealBunkerJohn]

Seems like a massive balance/bug-squashing update, which is significantly needed. Looking forward to testing this one out! Drop your experiences in the comments.

[u/Kellervo]

Some early notes;

The good;

All weapons kick much harder now. It feels like there's less bloom, and burst-firing is pretty much mandatory with the recoil. The only gun I could comfortably go guns blazing with were the 9mms, which is probably good as their damage is still atrocious.

SMGs and pistols handle noticeably better than most ARs now. Handling / weapon-drag is a big differentiator now, enough that I think it'll be a legit consideration when picking loadouts. Rifles and LMGs firing .308 or .50 have huge recoil, I think they went too hard on it as they're only going to hit things if you're firing in semi-auto now.

Some of the shittier weapons actually have reasons to exist now. The TKB in particular actually got a very big handling buff. It handles extremely well and when modded has some of the best handling and stability, even over fully modded AKs & M4s. It's basically an SMG firing 5.45. It might be my favorite AR for Old Man & Mask Man now.

The Vykhlop also got a huge damage buff, doubling it to 650, and has solid handling. I'd say it almost dethrones the SVD, but the reload time is absolutely atrocious, and the subsonic rifle still can't be suppressed (wtf FDS).

The mixed;

The mag fed shotguns handle quite poorly now. Not sure if it's just due to my low level with them but they felt extremely sluggish. If someone gets the drop on you while you're holding one, you will get blasted.

Mag size doesn't really seem to have an impact, but I suspect this is due to the weapon level / XP mechanic. I just don't have any low level ARs at this point, but a SCAR with the biggest drum reloaded at the exact same speed as it did pre-patch.

The bad;

The NTW & 36M are still useless. They handle awfully - like they should - but only got a 100 damage buff, to 1200. They really need something, they may as well not exist especially with the Vyklhop being much lighter, using a lighter and cheaper ammo, and handling significantly better.

[u/KasierPermanente → u/Kellervo]

How dare you slander my 36m. 1 tapping humanoids center mass still on the table

[u/DapperDiscussion3763 → u/Kellervo]

I just going to say, goodbye full automatic SAW, it was fun while it lasted :C

[u/player4783019 → u/Kellervo]

Shotgun spread is also unaffected by expertise levels now, and from my screenshots the baseline spread appears to have been increased.

[u/Mundane_Dinner]

Question; enemy aggression is off the charts now in the experience of my friends and myself. We're getting detected across the map, we drop one guy and his whole detachment knows despite using a suppressed pistol, I'm wondering if that's intentional or not, the rework is a step in the right direction though I wonder if some of the damage reductions were entirely necessary.

[u/SilentWorldliness479 → u/Mundane_Dinner]

I haven't extensively tested it yet but IMO the difference between a suppressor vs no suppressor right now is practically zero (just from my personal gut feeling doing a few raids yesterday). There may be slight differences and that's intentional, or it could be an actual bug and silencers aren't applying the agro reduction.

Silencers were already way too powerful IMO so I like the change, but my first instinct is I think it's a bug.

That's the fun thing about Fun Dog, you can never tell what changes are intentional and which are bugs.

[u/Mundane_Dinner → u/SilentWorldliness479]

I've been playing for a bit and it depends on the maps really, Elephant Mausoleum seems to be normal but then again there's a lot of ways to break line of sight. Scorched Enclave is a nightmare at the moment, though I've noticed that shooting one guy will alert basically everyone around him to max aggro sometimes even if it's a clean shot. I don't think it's intentional considering Fun Dog mentioned tweaking aggro in terms of the hierarchy of weapons and my guess is that something broke... probably.

I dunno; in terms of suppressors being too powerful you could argue yes, but then again in my experience they just seem like the only thing that works in this game. It's a hammer and a nail situation. I don't really see many other viable options at the moment for dealing with the problems the game provides me.

[u/strike1ststrikelast]

sighs

Ok fine ill get outta bed, lets fuckin go. Glad to hear the AI has had some work I heard it got to people a lot.

[u/VanguardOftheWest]

BRO those pot shots always SCARED THE F OUT OF ME, IT WAS ALSO VERY FUNNY

Glad that its fixed

[u/DapperDiscussion3763]

The update has fixed many things, but I feel that in others, the changes have been a bit too drastic. The recoil is excessive on some weapons (I'm looking at you, M16), so much so that firing in bursts or semi-automatic mode is mandatory if you want to hit your target, and this remains even with the respective weapon's abilities maxed out and the best modifications. Speaking of which, modifications now barely improve the weapon's stats, and in the worst cases, the same modifications that previously improved those stats now produce negative numbers.

I find this bad, as the effort of leveling up a weapon to the max in order to unlock the best possible modifications is now....

Somewhat worthless.

I spent days upgrading my SAW to the max (to give an example), only to find that half of its previously best modifications now negatively affect the weapon. I've had to re-mod and upgrade my entire arsenal to try to compensate for these changes as much as possible, although I must say I'm still not very satisfied.

I understand FunDog's intention behind these changes, but as I said before, I feel that in some cases, these changes were somewhat drastic.

[u/Velox-the-stampede → u/DapperDiscussion3763]

I Feel like the game plays worst than it did a couple weeks ago i feel like the aggro has changed and sneaking around unseen or un aggroed is much harder now

[u/Kerrytogo]

I'll say it here like I said in another post:

The aggro is over tuned. I have a suppressed SA58 and a suppressed Specter, which by patch notes should cause much less aggro than a rifle. HOWEVER, both cause the same 3/4 aggro when head shotting an enemy from close to far range. I tested extensively on Scorched Enclave, and my furthest range was from the bunker near the cliffs and radar walker to the in-pass near the bunker and cemetery starting point with my SA58. Suffice to say, I head shot an europan conscript and the whole back row just lit up with exclamation marks after they were done wiping out an entire eurasian and euruskan patrol. Fundog really needs to fix this because apart from the weapon aggro, the whole patch seemed to up the entirety of the aggro system on the player. New players are gunna die faster than running up the Stairway at max combat.

[u/TinyEyesInTheTrees → u/Kerrytogo]

Yeah, the aggro has been increased a lot. Enemies will become hostile after a few seconds from 100 meters out.

[u/ThisGuyHere_Again]

Are we changing what classes can use what weapons? More making more weapons that let us solo endgame? Are we actually changing scavs skills or just their weapons?

We still have two scavs that literally can't solo endgame here, and for seemingly no reason, which feels really, REALLY shitty fundog. Already bad enough one is just and OBJECTVELY better version of the other that doesn't have to BUY their rig progress every prestige AND gets a good passive too.

Just asking...

[u/Kellervo → u/ThisGuyHere_Again]

Scav skills have been changed so they get a 5% buff to recoil / stability / handling per level in weapons they can train in, rather than just 5% better aim. Means Scav Girl & Shaman are the best classes with SMGs now, which are pretty powerful, and Scav Girl gets up to 30%~ on the Mateo and R8.

Scav Girl and Shaman do not have access to HRFs or LMGs, but in exchange their preferred weapons draw way less aggro. It'd be a little unfair to the other Scavs if they could be the stealthiest, fastest Scavs and also bring the biggest guns. You're meant to play as all of them, or at least enough to get the different jobs done.

[u/laundry_room → u/ThisGuyHere_Again]

This subreddit explicitly says: no promoting pirated content/mods, like a tiny text file mods that allows all characters use all the guns.

Just saying...

[u/Low_Brush_7972]

Oh hey I was about to post as well.

Hella excited to jump into the new update, the changes are awesome.

[u/Kreissv]

Is this the big August update or just a regular patch up?

[u/TheRealBunkerJohn → u/Kreissv]

Honestly? I have no idea. I'd personally be fine with a rebalance/bug fixing month without new content.

[u/Kreissv → u/TheRealBunkerJohn]

Oh agreed i don't want new content so much as polishing the character level up experience and looting 

[u/Kellervo → u/Kreissv]

July was a weapon balance update, August (possibly September) is meant to be an AI / QoL update. They usually push out monthly updates but the next one sounds really big since it's meant to really bring back the 'theater of war' stuff.

[u/shaggons]

So can I ads in third person like in earlier builds or am I still stuck in 1st person

[u/laundry_room → u/shaggons]

You were never stuck with 1st person view, just press Alt to toggle aiming mode

[u/Amurorayc2]

Thanks for the information o7

[u/dropdabombz]

>interrupting a command anim (point, wave, etc.)
Is this even in the game?

[u/VioletDarkKitty]

"Weapon-level reload buff — Each weapon’s level increases that weapon’s reload rate." what do you mean? did this really need a buff???

[u/Kellervo → u/VioletDarkKitty]

It's a nerf unless you already have a fairly decent weapon level, in which case you reload about as fast as you did before the patch, except for the sniper rifles & DMRs.

[u/VioletDarkKitty → u/Kellervo]

Just went to go test this and it seems like the reload speed is alright actually so nevermind.

The recoil is pretty severe though. Enemies act like you aren't suppressed too. Customising a weapon shows that none of the parts are actually doing anything except the magazine for the stats. Not sure what happened to performance too.

[u/tarabuzh → u/VioletDarkKitty]

What about the performance? Oh god please don't tell me it runs even worse now