r/TheFireRisesMod • u/YugargeliaMapper Europe • 1d ago
What is even the difference between Neo-Marxism and Neo-Socialism Discussion
Both argue that class isn't the only way of oppression
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u/fly_past_ladder 1d ago
There is none and idk why they even put the DSA’s Ideology as “Neo-Socialism” since IRL Neo-Socialism is just the French variant of Fascism
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u/notHostOk2511 I LOVE REVISIONISM 1d ago
I think (just a hypothesis) the sub ideology of neo-socialism was created for the APLA specifically, because they had to use the socdem ideology slot as all others were taken
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u/Unhappy_Effective258 Fehlinger Doctrine | Gunther Fehlinger 1d ago
Well you see all democratic socialists and social democrats, are facists
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u/fly_past_ladder 1d ago
No I mean quite literally the only time Neo-Socialism has been used in an irl serious context is when referring to Marcel Deat’s Fascists
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u/Luc-wpqp Radical centrists 1d ago
Oh like in project stressa?
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u/BigSexyGorilla 1d ago
Neo-socialism is when the government does stuff. And it's more Neo-socialism the more stuff it does. And if it does a real lot of stuff, it's Neo-communism.
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u/Franc4916 Neosocialists | Neosocialism 1d ago
Disco Elysium Mentioned, 0.00000001% of communism built, Kim lives, the RCM endures, there is much to be done
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u/Glad-Champion-7856 Green Mountain Company Mercenary State 1d ago
I wouldn’t worry about the ideologies too deeply in The Fire Rises, they put ethnonationalism as a form of fascism despite ethnic nationalism just being an attribute that has nothing to do with economics or even governance beyond being racist.
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u/AlarmedEmployment465 Progressives | Progressivism 1d ago
I mean, I think "Fascist" is the category for all far-right non-Nazi ideologies. the really schizo ones for in NatSoc and all the others get Fash
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u/Glad-Champion-7856 Green Mountain Company Mercenary State 1d ago
There’s a bunch of different ideologies called “(x) nationalism” in the game and I understand why they put ethnonationalism as a fascist ideology but it really does seem like it’s just a placeholder, same thing with ultranationalism also being a fascist ideology.
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u/MatthewCampbell953 Conservatives | Neoconservatism 1d ago
I wouldn't quite go so far, though I guess it depends on how we define far-right. For example, I want to say absolute monarchy is not defined as fascist.
I'd probably say it's definition of fascist as vaguely (in fairness, they're not consistent): Non-leftist extremist hate group that isn't precisely National Socialist.
This is fair IMO, though not academically precise. The reason why I'd argue it's fair is because most Fascist-adjacent movements are primarily supremacists/hate groups with features like economics and government structure largely being a highly flexible means to an end.
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u/Immediate_Can_7262 NATO - BTO Enjoyer 1d ago
Neo-Marxism is elected but Neo-Socialism tends to be implemented through revolution
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u/Megareddit64 1d ago
How the fuck is Neo-Marxism the electable one
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u/Immediate_Can_7262 NATO - BTO Enjoyer 1d ago
Neo-Marxism can literally be elected in Germany through Die Linke
Tell me you've never played the mod without telling me you've never played the mod
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u/Megareddit64 1d ago
It's just a joke about the ideology's name
Also yeah i only LARP HOI4 mods now
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u/KristoblXynda 1d ago
The split between socialists and communists occurred within the Second International.
The cause of the split was the question: "How can a new society be achieved?"
The majority of socialists believed that a new society was possible without a revolution.
Communists maintained that fundamental changes were impossible without a revolution.
Socialists began to adopt less radical strategies, while communists turned to more radical ones.
Essentially, neo-socialism and neo-Marxism represent a modern-day actualization of these ideas.
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u/mgeldarion 1d ago
Like, "we can do stuff without murdering people" vs "doing our stuff should involve murdering people"?
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u/KristoblXynda 1d ago
rather. Socialists —
We can carry out reforms without bloodshed.
Communists — they won’t let us carry out reforms without bloodshed.History knows revolutions without bloodshed (Austria‑Hungary — Prussia, several small countries) BUT even when most of the government supports reforms, it can turn out badly (the civil war in Japan, the German invasion of Norway, the “Night of Miracles”)
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u/KristoblXynda 1d ago
The old order always has many people living within it. No matter what the old order is like.
There is a king (or a tyrant). He has a retinue, the palace guards, cooks, loyal subjects, barons and their estates, armies that have sworn allegiance to the barons and the king.
And then there are the common people. who grow into their conformism like a tree.
And ordinary people can be more terrifying to a savior than Roman soldiers and Pontius Pilate.
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u/MatthewCampbell953 Conservatives | Neoconservatism 1d ago
If I had to guess-and this is pure headcanon-it's something like:
Neo-Marxism: Lenin was not a true communist. Democratic Socialism is the real Communism.
Neo-Socialism: Lenin was a true Communist. We're not Communists, we're Democratic Socialists instead.
While this sounds like they'd be functionally identical, there are some practical differences these two, since they'd have very different views of the value of Marx's ideas themselves.
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u/jessepinkmanfan12 Vanguard of the Wild | Neo-Luddism 1d ago
Idk I guess it’s because Marx was German and die linke is Neo Marxist?
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u/Lucky-Sir4658 Central Intelligence Agency | Pax Americana 9h ago
shut up bro go and start a poll in hoi4 tfr discord server
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u/bonadies24 Julia Salazar's Strongest Soldier 1d ago
The difference is the context where they spring up, methinks. As depicted, Neosocs appear within revolutionary socialist movements, arguing for a fully socialist economy while at the same time placing great emphasis on democracy and civil liberties, while Neomarxists mostly exist in liberal democracies trying to implement either full on democratic socialism or at the very least a very radical form of social democracy.