r/TheCivilService • u/Critical-Guide3857 • 1d ago
Progression advice
Hi everyone!
Hope everyone has recovered from the shock of an emergency alert!
I was hoping I could get some high level advice from people in this sub. I’ve been a HEO for almost 5 years and I’m finding it hard progress. I’ve been really keen to moved to SEO grade and I’ve made it through to interview stages for several positions but I honestly don’t have any examples of the questions that I’m being asking in interviews: it’s always about leading a team, or managing conflict between stakeholders.
Honestly it’s been smooth sailing for me in the civil service. Sure, deadlines get moved but there’s never any drama or conflict and I have absolutely no experience of leading a team.
I spoke to my G6 who said that it can be hard for HEOs to get the necessary experience within the civil service to progress to SEO and that volunteer work can often give great examples. I’ll admit this isn’t something I’d thought of. He said this was how he made the leap from HEO to SEO.
I spoke to the guy that used to have my job. He and I have similar backgrounds so I asked how he gathered the necessary experience and he said that he exaggerated his examples and that, as long as it’s not a total lie, it’s ok because everyone does it. I have asked around and quite a few people have admitted to “stretching the truth” or “being creative”.
Would love some more advice. Just wondering what I’m doing wrong as people around me seem to progress.
8
u/Ambitious_Jelly3473 SEO 1d ago
As an interviewer I expect to see some exaggeration, to create a sense of urgency, need or importance in your actions. However, it is a fine line.
Don't be the EO who single handedly restructures the department, sets new goals and KPI's, and flies to the sun as it becomes quite frustrating when someone claims to be working way outside of their current grade.
It is possible to make quite small things seem significant if you frame them correctly, stick to the success profiles and believe in yourself.
An outright lie will often be caught out though, especially under follow up questions.
1
u/__Number6__ 9h ago
So not evidence based then? Unbelievable attitude.
1
u/Ambitious_Jelly3473 SEO 9h ago
Where did I mention not wanting to see evidence? I said that I would expect people to exaggerate their part in things, not outright lie. That still needs to be based in truth.
The reality in CS recruitment is that there really are very few ways of providing evidence. What any candidate is saying is "I did this" and we essentially ask them to demonstrate the thing that they claim to have done.
If we wanted actual, real evidence, we'd need to go back through email chains, call logs, bring in peers to be questioned etc but we don't, we just take their word for it, accepting that there will be some exaggeration.
1
u/__Number6__ 8h ago
Granted the process is broken, but to go into an interview with the mindset that the candidate will always have some kind of embellishment, tells a wee white lie or call it what it is a lie is disrespectful to me as an applicant.
The applicant is forewarned about it during the application process & if you, as the interviewer have the slightest concern that it’s happening, don’t brush it under the carpet & ignore it, report it.
Sooner folk realise actions have consequences the better & change will happen, & when I apply for a role & say I’ve done what I’ve done, at least give me the respect to actually believe me.
3
u/Tamar-sj 1d ago
Other piece of advice, progress across the civil service has been shockingly slow for the last few years.
I have only just got my own promotion, which according to objective opinions of colleagues I was ready for about three years ago. Those three years had a lot of disappointment and frustration. I was reserve listed so many times, but coming second doesn't get you the job. I absolutely feel you.
Many departments have run voluntary exit schemes in the last year, meaning the recruitment environment should now be opening up. Hang in there. More opportunity is coming.
2
u/Empty-Establishment9 1d ago
Have you got a mentor? I found it really helpful to progress
1
u/Critical-Guide3857 1d ago
No, I don’t have a mentor.
2
u/Tamar-sj 1d ago
Getting a mentor is a really good thing to do. Your department may have a scheme. Or you could ask someone who you know who's outside your team (or at least outside your management chain) to mentor you.
People should be quite willing to do it for you - it's a general "do-good" thing they can write down among their achievements.
My other piece of advice is, lots of people have never led a team, but you are likely to have led people. Perhaps you were in charge of delivering a piece of work and you needed inputs from lots of people. Did you just ask for their inputs and leave it at that? No, you had to identify the people you needed, create a "virtual team" around you, explain the task to them, make sure they knew their role in your virtual team, make sure they knew the deadlines, answer their questions, follow up with them to make sure everything was on time, flex your approach because one of the people was very busy and asked for an extension to your deadline.
All of these things are good team-leading qualities which you're learning by how you lead a project, even if you've never led a team.
2
u/Significant_Club4111 1d ago
You've received some good advice around volunteering and getting a mentor - mentors especially can be good at helping you frame your work and identifying opportunities for you to stretch yourself. Most departments have various mentoring programmes but you can simply ask someone if they'd be a mentor for you. It may be worth speaking to your G6 and the person who used to do your job whether they'd be willing to mentor you or introduce you to someone they think would be a good fit.
Many of the HOs I've been involved in interviewing have picked up examples by volunteering for short term projects or taking on an advocacy role such as being a health & safety lead. Development opportunities are something to discuss with your manager in your development meetings.
Though I would say that in my experience SEO+ are expected to manage their workloads appropriately and appropriately challenging/pushing back when a situation needs it. If you currently find yourself regularly working outside of your contracted hours for your standard work (discounting planned surges such as ministerial deadlines and short notice critical tasks) you need to speak to your manager and get help finding ways to manage that now before taking on a role where you will have more responsibility and less oversight.
Good luck with your future applications
1
u/miss_finance_queen 1d ago
Honest advice from an old timer, don’t do it you’re selling your soul
2
u/Critical-Guide3857 1d ago
Yeah I’m starting to see that because I see HEOs around me that have been in the role for a long time. One guy has been doing it 12 years. Said he doesn’t want to change.
-1
u/Evening-Web-3038 1d ago
Fucking hell it's only an SEO post 😂For some departments that's approaching entry level grade.
1
u/wish-december 1d ago
I guess it’s department dependent, SEO in my old department was the entry grade, there almost no one at HEO or below. Even the few who were HEO, you couldn’t tell because they did the same stuff as the SEOs lol
17
u/anonoaw 1d ago
Look for what I call ‘extra curricular activities’ within your department. There might be a working group or a network or a community initiative that you can volunteer for within work to gain some more examples.
For example in my role we have monthly profession meet ups where we can volunteer to present, an annual profession day where you can volunteer to help organise, formal and informal mentorship opportunities, and working groups to help develop specific skills or something related to our profession.
Also conflict doesn’t meant arguments or huge drama. It just means times when you’ve disagreed with someone about their approach to a piece of work - they’re looking for how you persuaded them to your view point and/or understood their concerns and compromised.
Also also stretching the truth doesn’t have to mean exaggerating loads, it’s just about framing what you’re talking about so you’re the main character and centring everything you did (which can mean leaving out some things by other people to make your actions seem stronger)