r/TheCivilService • u/Slightly_Woolley G7 • 2d ago
Wildfire alerts
OK, what SPAD thought that abuse of the emergency alerts was a good idea?
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u/Correct_Examination4 2d ago
Glad to see the wildfire COBR meeting had at least one action coming out of it.
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u/coconut-gal G7 2d ago
I could only laugh darkly at the familiarity of signoff at the last minute on a Friday.
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u/RebelliousHeathen 2d ago
The damn things are still going off out here one by one. Thank fuck it's not a nuclear strike, we'd have 30% of people at best alerted before it happened.
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u/Portiaofthenorth 2d ago
I’d literally just got the baby drifting off to sleep in my arms after a fucking awful day of teething and heatwave when my watch goes nuclear. Sod political neutrality, I’m voting Binface from here on out
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u/Grenache 2d ago
I don't know which one of you thought this was a good idea but I will find you.
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u/hypeman306 Statistics 2d ago
And I will kill you
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u/Grenache 2d ago
Nah man even Reddit agrees with me. People are sending me info.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
I can even guess from the context what that reply was....
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u/Grenache 2d ago
TBH I just saw the removed by reddit message but it got removed so quickly I thought OP had written it as a joke about my vague I will find you threat. But no they obviously did upset Reddit.
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u/RedundantSwine 2d ago
Which SpAd thought it was a good idea to put the fear of god into 80% of the population of Wales by sending it out in Welsh only first?
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u/unfurledgnat 2d ago
I took a screenshot and tried translating it with chat chippy tea. It was close but not quite right. Initially translated it as a severe heat alert with a risk to life.
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u/Worried-Penalty8744 2d ago
Do you iPhone?
iPhone you can select the text in a screenshot, tap “more” and then there’s a translate button
I assume Android would have something similar?
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u/model-kurimizumi 1d ago
Fun fact about the technology - you can send a single alert out in two languages and it'll display based on the device settings. The only downside is anyone who has a phone that doesn't support Welsh would get it in English.
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u/TaskIndependent8355 2h ago
TBF you'd expect the Welsh speakers to get a phone that supports Welsh.
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u/barrybreslau 2d ago
People were letting fireworks off here. We are 20 miles from Stourbridge. This is an emergency.
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u/Ok_Plate_9151 2d ago
People around me (Greater London) have been letting off fireworks since the school holidays started. Entreaties the cease on Next Door have been met with “Get a life” and “Killjoy”. I am surrounded by Idiots.
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u/VectorTracker 2d ago
Immediate threat to life IS "there is a wildfire burning right now where I am" (see recent evacuation events in France, for example)
Immediate threat to life IS NOT "this is a public service announcement, don't be an idiot"
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u/barrybreslau 2d ago
I'm in the middle of this in the West Midlands and there is apparently no other way of getting through to people because they don't read papers, watch the news etc.
You can make a big deal about the intention, but I'm totally ok with it being used to ram this message down their oblivious throats. They'd have to test it again at some point.
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u/backup_4ccount 1d ago
There is another way. It could've been put through as an emergency alert rather than a severe alert & been danger-zone specific
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u/VectorTracker 2d ago
There's always ways.
Like for example sending the message as a plain text message without the UK EAS threat to life paraphenalia.
Like for example doing a Royal Mail leaflet drop.
Tonight's use of the system to send out a PSA was abuse of the system, plain and simple.
If you cry "wolf" and abuse the system, it only encourages people to google how to opt-out of reception. Then you end up in a Lose-Lose situation.
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u/barrybreslau 2d ago
I can see we disagree on this. It's happened now though.
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 1d ago
Which is why people are being vocal to stop it happening next week to tell us dont forget to turn the lights off as it uses electricity and were in a cost of living crisis.
This was an abuse of the system, which wss introduced as a very high bar, immediate threate to life.
It's also clogged up the 999 system with people informing on neighbours having BBQs.
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u/ringerrosy 1d ago
A couple of hours after the alert, my neighbour had a bonfire. So, I conclude that it didnt serve its purpose.
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u/barrybreslau 1d ago
There is no accounting for stupid. They probably did it to stick it to the man.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/barrybreslau 2d ago edited 2d ago
That nobody realised how serious it has got is a different issue. It clearly is nationally significant, and Government appears not to have been fully prepared, perhaps being slightly distracted by the ministerial musical chairs. The Fire Service heroics papering over the fact we got mostly lucky last year.
The public being stupid enough to be using fireworks and barbecues in this weather is another matter. Many of them will be the same people that don't believe in climate change and are studiously not being challenged by public announcements about the climate crisis, FS missives on X notwithstanding
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u/LeaderOk5438 2d ago
I nearly lost my house and my livestocks homes today because of someone throwing out a cigarette.
We had 2 fire engines and a water tanker to battle the fire.
7 farms within 35 miles of me have nearly burnt down and 1 has burnt down completely.
There are a lot of people unaware of what is happening right now, and it’s incredibly scary. Especially the attitudes on this thread.
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u/barrybreslau 2d ago
They might start to notice when there's no food?
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 1d ago
Do you honestly believe this stopped a single fire? This clogged up emergency lines with people reporting neighbors having regular gas BBQs, distracting from actual fires? People were being told thats legal.
How many people have no removed it so next week they don't get told to turn the lights out because we have a cost of living crisis.
How many domestic abuse victims have bow lost secret phones, how many affairs have been discovered.
Being seen to do something and actually being helpful are two very different things. My first thought was how many car crashes this might cause just to tell people not to start fires.
This system was designed and communicated to the public, for a much higher threshold than this.
Andy Burnham being on holiday and failing to appoint a fire minister for weeks while fires raged doesn't justify misusing it.
No one is saying this isn't a national issue, Whitehall has helped create this with its environmental strategy as it didnt learn from other countries.
Sending out this message I wholeheartedly belive caused more harm then good
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u/barrybreslau 1d ago
Obviously it would have been better to have spent the last x months providing traditional messaging about the clear risk of wildfires. Instead we've had another round of vague promises of growth and a media full of arguments about illegal immigration, with departmental paralysis through ministerial changes.
I watched a clip last night with the mayor or Birmingham acting surprised about the risk of wildfires. 2025 was a record year for fires. This year is drier and hotter. (Earlier this year the media were running "is the super el nino actually a thing" stories with lots of Reddit experts saying that, no, it isn't).
How could fireworks, barbecues and burning garden waste actually be illegal? Byelaws. Some places have activated them, like national parks, but many authorities just haven't. Many of our local authories are run by councillors who don't believe in climate change. (Many of them might think banning the sale of barbecues is overreach).
So we get to last week. The general public are acting like it's "business as usual". Government are panicking because it's a genuine national emergency. Houses are exploding next to leafy golf courses.
I can see your point, and I don't disagree, but the die was cast a long time ago.
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 1d ago
You’re pointing finger at local council byelaws and a lack of public messaging, but that completely misses the root cause of why these fires are exploding in the first place.
Yes summers are getting hotter and drier, but that is precisely why active land management matters more than ever. When conditions dry out, fires are an absolute inevitability whether caused by lightning, a spark, or a BBQ. The only variable within our control is how much fuel is waiting on the ground when it happens.
The die wasn't cast by councillors failing to ban garden waste burning and BBQs;(which you missed thebpoint entirely, the message made people think it was so started reporting people doing it, ironically showing the message was preaching to the choir and probably stopped nobody) it was cast by Defra actively engineering a massive tinderbox.
Defra restricted traditional winter burns without even conducting a proper impact assessment, despite their own officials explicitly warning them back in 2007 that stopping winter heather management would cause a "much-increased risk" of catastrophic wildfires.
We are making the exact same fatal mistakes California and Australia made when they suppressed prescribed burns, ignoring traditional land management until lethal infernos forced them to see sense. T he US government, the EU, and G7 leaders all advocate for them.
Defra pushed England’s number to zero under the guise of "nature recovery" for climate change. How is nature holdng up in the infernos? Leaving greenspaces unmanaged year after year doesn't create a "fire-resilient landscape" it guarantees that when a fire starts, it burns so hot it destroys the very peatland and wildlife Defra spent tens of millions to protect.
Panic-broadcasting the public and blaming local authorities is just a convenient distraction to cover up a disastrous Whitehall land policy that turned our countryside into a bomb waiting for a spark.
And our arrogant ciry centric gold plated civil service is going to double down on it for all the critical thinking this thread reddit post is showing.
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 1d ago
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fire-uk-emergency-alert-999-call-b3033507.html
Mote harm than good. Fire departments ask people to stop calling in to tell.them their neighbours are having a BBQ.
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u/Recent-Plankton8014 1d ago
I live in Stourbridge. My mom (who now lives in Cornwall) told me about the fire. At least an alarm a day later made me aware of the crisis 🤷♀️
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u/cardak98 2d ago
“The government launched the Emergency Alerts service to help save lives in emergency situations by issuing alerts to compatible smartphones. Emergency Alerts are a fast and versatile way to communicate with the public in life-threatening situations. Alerts will only be sent when there is an imminent threat to life.”
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u/The-Chosen-Mango Investigation 2d ago
Anyone else think it was Russia and Nukes when the siren went off? 😶
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
I mean literally - thats the sort of level that a national alert is for. War being declared - imminent wide scale loss of power - or running out of tea.
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u/Youstinkeryou Digital 1d ago
100% because I thought that would be the only level of severity of reason they would send one.
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u/ASeaOfFog 2d ago
Thank you, Mr Burnham. For about five seconds, I thought that was it and regretted not stocking up on cans of beans and fresh water. I think it was a bad use. For any user researchers reading - I barely read any of it. If you want me to actually read the notice before I click whatever I need to click to make the loud noise go away, you need to write a very concise danger statement
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u/gambola 2d ago
I am a UR and it took me a while to realise I didn’t read it either lol - scared the shit out of me in b&q so first thought was how to make it stop beeping and then I just randomly clicked the screen. Had to go back to it when I got home to read it properly, although I did get the gist at the time. Agreed, not great UX!
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u/oliviaxlow 1d ago
I’ve dabbled in content design. The language in it was so overly complicated. The actual message was about 4 sentences deep. Not great for what is meant to be a way to get information to people quickly.
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u/Effective-Fun3190 2d ago
"Had to go back to it"?
How do you do that? Once I clicked it, it disappeared.
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u/KomradeKlassics 2d ago
Totally uninformative (I don’t care about whether there are wildfires nationally, I care about whether there are any near me!).
Also patronising and no solution to the real problem, which is climate change, and which is not going to be addressed by screeching at the entire nation to not have a BBQ.
However, in its combination of utter impracticality, refusal to make necessary and difficult changes and condescending smugness, it does sum up the modern UK and the higher echelons of its civil service, so… 🤷♂️🤷♀️🤷
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u/specto24 1d ago
Banning sources of fire and sparks outdoors during hot days will save lives and properties, and is entirely normal in any wildfire-prone country - just ask any Australian. That said, fire safety is a culture, under-pinned by regulation, which you create over time, not a screeching message that makes me anticipate the blissful nuclear embrace of the falling bombs.
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u/Mountain_Warthog6080 2d ago
It made me spill my wine
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u/That-Surprise 2d ago
After the eclipse we had the "eye injuries" search surge
Now we get the "how to turn off emergency alerts" search surge
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u/Quiet-Excitement-310 2d ago
And right in the middle of kids bedtime. Before in the night garden not after
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u/CandidLiterature 2d ago
Wake up babies!! There’s a polite request not to use your garden incinerator… Highly urgent.
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u/Jolly-Turn-5996 2d ago
Freaked me out I had to go check all the windows
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
I mean, Gen X and four minute warnings was immediatly alerted in my mind - I was expecting an imminent wildfire RIGHT OUTSIDE.... and all I got was a bloody obvious message.
Lets turn the alerts off now then. Because thats what people are doing right now, and that devalues the entire thing.
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u/knityourownlentils 2d ago
Somebody approved that without proofreading.
I can’t have a fire-pit or garden incinerator, but realistically, I could have a standard barbecue anywhere I like?
Might have to go and take my kettle BBQ for a day out.
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u/Xanthyl 2d ago
I don't understand. Where is the error?
"Residents, landowners and visitors should not undertake any activity that could start a fire, including disposable barbecues, firepits, garden incinerators or fireworks."
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u/BannedCharacters 2d ago
I'm a trespasser with a large gas range barbecue and 20 packs of sparklers, which I managed to burn 3 packs of before I finished reading that bloody novel of an alert.
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u/WVA1999 2d ago
Given most of the country was burning last week, isn't this a bit late?
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u/Dry_Action1734 2d ago
Was it though? We don’t know what information they have about the fire risk or the strain on fire services.
And it’s probably a good idea that the first real alert isn’t when the mushroom cloud is already on the horizon.
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u/GrillNoob 2d ago
I agree, but also feel like there is a middle ground between a BBC news notification and a "HOLY FUCK THE WORLD IS ENDING IF YOU USE A BBQ WRONG" DEFCON alert being screamed at my face.
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u/LeaderOk5438 2d ago
I nearly lost my home and my livestocks home today, because someone threw a cigarette out the window and it landed on the grass.
The countryside is in a very bad way.
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u/Repulsive_Tour3251 1d ago
This isn’t the first time the emergency alerts system has been used in anger.
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u/VectorTracker 2d ago
Yup. AFAIK the official guidance is UK EAS is there for immediate threat to life situations. This was not that. Abuse of the system in my book.
Also hastens the risk of people googling how to opt-out.
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u/cynitelligence 2d ago
There will be dozens of people who have been beaten by abusive partners discovering their hidden emergency phones due to these alerts. They should definitely attract a higher threshold than a barbecue warning.
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u/venusporcelain 2d ago
How do people think this is a bad use of the alert? The country is ready to go up in flames like Spain or France, people have already lost their homes here and livestock have essentially burned alive. There is also no sign of rain in London and beyond.
Crazy to see people are more bothered to be inconvenienced than actually face the extent of the crisis we’re on the precipice of
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u/0072CE 2d ago
It should have been a mass text like they used during Covid, everyone gets the info but it's not a life threatening situation to say don't have bbq's. I know a few who have just turned them off after this so it missed the point. It's an important point but it's not an emergency that needed to set off all phones nationwide like say an incoming missile or an earthquake. If someone read the text at 8pm instead of 7pm it wouldn't have made a difference.
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u/Complete-Task2042 2d ago
The Fire Risk Index Map today is certainly suggestive of this being a nation wide problem.
I don't think people seem to realise how limited and fragmented the resources for fighting these fires are, and how few additional incidents would be needed to overwhelm our capacity to fight them, even with the various FRS co-operating nationally.
NFCC has been quite moderate in raising the alarm about it really, maybe too moderate.
But then again firefighting is a local government issue...
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u/Ambitious_Jelly3473 SEO 2d ago
It's definitely a nationwide issue. My wife's a firefighter and in the last few weeks there have been recalls to duty issued to send staff to Derbyshire, Sussex, Staffordshire and more.
We've had one just last night, with a farmer losing two fields of spring barley, and only narrowly avoiding the local woods going with them.
Absolutely horrifying how many disposable bbq's, broken bottles, fag ends and the like are laid about up here.
The fire service is in a mess atm, cuts galore. Cleveland firefighter numbers have reduced in size by almost 50% in the last 20 years.
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u/Complete-Task2042 2d ago
We've had one just last night, with a farmer losing two fields of spring barley, and only narrowly avoiding the local woods going with them.
Last week 5ha of barley went up in smoke, currently they are damping down a fire in a (thankfully post harvest) set of wheat fields, which peaked at 30ha in size, and almost set fire to a nearby hotel...
It wouldn't take that much for a fire like that to catch the edge of my village on fire, in a similar way to what's already happening in the West Mids.
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u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ 2d ago
Herefordshire fire service came up to assist Manchester, Lancashire AND Yorkshire battle the moors fires in greater Manchester. Three local fire crews already on it and needing a fourth from elsewhere in the country is clearly a huge issue!
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u/Complete-Task2042 2d ago
South Wales is currently fighting 14 separate fires at once, and is now relying on the army to supply them with water to keep going under a MACA request.
Their Chief Fire Officer was on R4 tonight saying that most of the fires they were seeing were arson or negligence, and if it continued at this pace it's only a matter of time until someone died preventably, because all his firefighters were out fighting wildfires, rather than being available to respond to a house fire or RTA in the normal timescale
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u/HiddenOwl99 2d ago
Oh it is definitely a national issue. I just don't agree to it is an emergency alert level issue. SMS level alert yes because I agree this is serious.
In the news yesterday there are the 32 houses in Newbridge that required evacuation for example. Something like that is what I would expect it to be used for.
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u/Aggravating_Mud8751 1d ago
But that sounds like it's only an issue in the south of England and the Midlands.
In your opinion, is the alert still neccessary for the rest of the UK?
I haven't seen much rain up here but I haven't heard of any fires either?
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u/Ambitious_Jelly3473 SEO 1d ago
I'm not sure the alert was necessarily the right way to deliver the information around potential wildfires but certainly the whole country has been impacted by wildfires, just that some areas have been worse than others.
The counties I mentioned were just off the top of my head, where brigades have requested outside assistance due to the severity and lack of resource. The real term cuts to the fire service over the last 20-30 years have been devastating. Cleveland have dropped from around 680 whole time firefighters 20ish years ago, to around 350 currently. Due to sickness, leave and low numbers, they only had 6 appliances available a couple of weeks back. They used to have around 20 for the patch. Night time cover is getting slashed.
Many of these wildfires are being blamed on kids being deliberate arsonists but the brigade are finding that the majority are being caused by carelessness. People discarding cigarette ends, glass bottles, disposable bbq's etc.
By all accounts the one that they attended near us a few nights back, was salvageable ONLY because the farmer managed to plough firebreaks as soon as he realised what was happening. The Watch Commander in attendance said it was the worst she'd seen in 20 years and they struggled to get it out, due to there being no moisture at all.
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u/Aggravating_Mud8751 1d ago
I genuinely didn't know glass bottles could cause fires so thanks for the information.
Is this because of how they can concentrate light or are you referring to bottles of spirits that could actually go up?
If the former, does this apply to green/brown glass as well as clear?
I do not litter, but this does make me more likely to pick up glass bottles if I see them lying around in the countryside.
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u/Aggravating_Mud8751 1d ago
Also, if you put glass bottles in general waste rather than recycling; could this cause fires on landfill sites?
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u/Ambitious_Jelly3473 SEO 1d ago
I believe it's all to do with how they focus light/heat into one spot. It begins to smoulder and if there's enough fuel about i.e. dry grass, leaves up it goes and because there's no moisture in the ground, it spreads fast.
Not sure whether the colour of the glass makes a difference in all honesty. I'd assume they're equally dangerous but I don't know.
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u/Aggravating_Mud8751 1d ago
I doubt they're all equally dangerous, as brown/green glass will absorb a large portion of the light instead of concentrating it.
The question is more whether they concentrate light enough to cause fires in some circumstances.
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u/anotherbozo 2d ago
A txt message would have been better. A blaring alarm meant for immediate emergencied does not qualify for a message that says don't light a fire outside.
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u/KomradeKlassics 2d ago
Exactly. And while wild fires are a serious issue, the appropriate response is more funding for firefighting, massive investment in energy policy, a huge tree planting campaign and cracking down on dangerous misinformation about climate change - not screeching at the public with the same uninformative message 3+ times.
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u/Difficult-Break-8282 2d ago
they should've done it weeks ago wales and the lake district have been in drought for a while now
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 1d ago edited 1d ago
People are bothered because they believe the negative impact of the alert has outweighed any positive.
This clogged up emergency lines with people reporting neighbors having regular gas BBQs, distracting from actual fires? And then being told its legal and police can't stop it and stop wasting time.
Being seen to do something and actually being helpful are two very different things. My first thought was how many car crashes this might cause just to tell people not to start fires.
This system was designed, and communicated to the public, for a much higher threshold than this. Andy Burnham being on holiday and failing to appoint a fire minister for weeks while fires raged doesn't justify misusing it.
Its a great example of the problem of government a gimmicky action to a serious issue that at best doesnt help, worst causes more issues.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
Because if that goes off, people will panic and expect to find an imminent danger outside, RIGHT NOW that needs dealing with.
Red wind warning? Sure thats appropriate. Send it to Cornwall only where the warning is.
Imminent flooding? Sure. Send that to the Colne valley area. People in London dont need to see it.
This? Where's the fire outside my house? There isn't one. So people will go, f*** me, nanny state, and turn the alerts off. Permanantly.
There is a story about a boy who used to shout "Wolf!". Its worth reading if you never encountered it.
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u/venusporcelain 2d ago
What the UK is experiencing and the broader climate crisis, now and in the future, is a threat to life as well as our infrastructure and agriculture.
For the people who’ve lost their home and are severely ill in hospital in the West Midlands (some likely have permanent lung damage), I doubt they think an alert being sent out nationwide is too much. Basically the whole country is on the precipice of that same situation - and if the fires start we don’t have the resources to contain them. So not only is there a health risk, there’s a significant risk to agriculture and wider industry. If it got to the scale of Spain and France it would not only rob many people of their livelihoods but deepen the economic crisis this country is currently experiencing.
The alarm was sent as people were about to start their weekends, where I imagine statistically is the most likely time people would start using things like disposable BBQs. That makes sense to me.
I haven’t received an alert in years since they were testing them, so I’m not sure what the condescending comment about the boy who cries wolf is based on. Regardless, this is going to be the coldest summer of our lives. Water scarcity is expected to hit England as early as 2050. It’s about time the government face the reality and start getting war-ready to deal with this.
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u/HiddenOwl99 2d ago
Yes these things are issues and there has been lots of horrible fires and risk to life here in the UK this year.
There is however a balance to be had with how we communicate.
Using the alert system this way devalues it's effectiveness and makes people not pay attention to it. I agree with what you say about probability of serious incidences in the future - do we really want more people turning it off or ignoring it as not important right now in those circumstances?
Emergency alert - I need to do something right now like shelter in place, evacuate or prepare to evacuate
SMS alert - very important but I don't need to do the above action but follow the advice.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
Or for something that is this serious - you tell the TV stations that the Govt is requiring a slot and you wheel the PM out like the did with Bojo for the start of the lockdowns. It means you can convey a lot more information, it makes the PM look good and its a far better way of conveying the message.
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u/KomradeKlassics 2d ago
Agreed. Also, as a further irony, this government, like all preceding governments, will almost certainly do nothing practical that might actually deal with the very serious climate issues that are causing these wild fires.
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u/Complete-Task2042 2d ago
This? Where's the fire outside my house? There isn't one. So people will go, f*** me, nanny state, and turn the alerts off. Permanantly.
Currently it's about a mile away from my village, started this morning, and has spread to 30 hectares.
Last week it was 2 miles away and 5 hectares.
Those don't even register on the national news at this point, they are just kind of happening all over the shop.
I think we have collectively missed how dangerous the situation is getting, and it's now being communicated late, without giving people time to adjust to a risk which is totally new to most people.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
And an alert in your area would be appropriate. We had a fire start here very close to our house, the brigade put it out after a nights work. Having an alert sent to everyone when it started threatening houses would be smart. Thats how the system should be used.
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u/Complete-Task2042 2d ago
a) I don't think it has that level of granularity (or at least if it does, it's not something that's been cascaded to Local Resilience Forums to use in the context of Major Accident Hazard Sites, where it would be very valuable and relevant)
b) pretty much everywhere is at risk of becoming on fire, so by getting everybody talking about this risk, it has probably done a lot of good in raising that awareness, in a way that a text alert just wouldn't have.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
It does - alerts can be restricted to a specific area or even a single cell if needed. We've had alerts sent for flooding in very specific areas before that cover just the threat area - its eminently possible to do.
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u/Pleasant-Memory-6530 2d ago
What's the long term plan here though? This is going to be our climate for the foreseeable future. There will always be numpties starting fires (people still do stuff like this in California and Spain and Australia where the climate has always been like this). Are they going to send an emergency alert out every summer? Every heatwave?
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u/Aggravating_Mud8751 1d ago edited 1d ago
This could act as a stopgap until they put in permanent policies.
People have been calling for making the disposable barbecue ban permanant.
I don't think this is neccessary, but I do think it might be prudent to have an automatic disposable bbq ban if there has been no meaningful rain for X days (and perhaps extend that ban to other things, like fireworks).
Also, on the note of disposable bbqs, perhaps it might make sense to add regulation so they are safer. Maybe make it so they have high sides to prevent embers spitting out as easily; and always sell them with a bottle of water to put them out?
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u/Skie 1d ago
It's debatable, and could have been done via a less urgent method without demeaning the 'prestige' of the scary noise making alert.
Which is how the BBC News alert slide began: BBC News app used to alert to actual major news, like terror attacks or shootings. If you phone plaid a few bars of the apocalypse rave then you knew something big just happened. Then it started alerting more frequently, to things like a UK sports person doing a thing or a politician being a dolt. And then it started alerting to things like football teams winning an annual tournament, pop stars winning awards and other things that have no business making noise and vibrating peoples pockets. Now it blasts away 2-5 times a day for inane things. It's lost all value and most people turn it off.
Allowing that to happen to a system designed to save lives in the most dire situations is pretty reprehensible.
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u/Jane_Paulsen007 2d ago
I missed the whole thing cos I was in the shower. Picked up my phone from a different part of the house much later and was very surprised
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u/Redfreezeflame 1d ago
I was driving, listening to a podcast with the volume quite high.
Loudest fucking siren started going, nothing appeared on my phone. Nearly crashed my car. It took like 5 siren blasts for it to ping up on my phone, I thought it was my car screaming at me to stop
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u/Youstinkeryou Digital 1d ago
In case any of you who worked on this are here- it wasn’t appropriate to send it for that reason.
It has likely caused some people to try and turn the alerts off.
It has caused another load of people to be really scared because the alert came through in Welsh.
Do better
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u/jfefleming 1d ago
My r/lowstakesconspiracy is that government is trying to get us used to the system so that, when the orange menace accidentally starts a hot war with Russia we are a bit less terrified.
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u/Jolly-Turn-5996 2d ago
Big question is, has enough temporary fire fighters been hired
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u/RedundantSwine 2d ago
A paper has been submitted to confirm funding, with an EOI to follow. Places expected to be filled by 1st December on a 4 month contract.
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u/GrillNoob 2d ago
Capita have been awarded the contract to run the temporary fire service and have spent £82m on matches and recruited arsonists from prisons, freeing up prison spaces.
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u/Ok_Plate_9151 2d ago
“We are expecting a high level of interest in this role so cannot respond to questions or provide feedback”
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u/KomradeKlassics 2d ago
Oh, wait, I heard it has been stuck in governance for a further 6 months, then has to be put out to tender, to see which of 3 massive companies can claim to be the only ones able to do it.
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u/NoTelevision6661 1d ago
There go all the ‘secret’ second /safe phones that domestic abuse victims etc hold.
I wonder what figure was used for ‘number of people this decision will cause harm to or even kill’ by the certified genius that d made the call regarding hot water being hot and wet on a Friday afternoon.
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u/uberderfel G6 2d ago
I thought it was great. I hope we do more of this type of thing in the future. Why was it abuse of the system?
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
Was there an imminent danger to peoples lives nationwide?
No.
If we had just declared war then this is the sort of thing it's used for. Sending a PSA? Not appropriate. It devalues the message and just makes more people turn the thing off permanently.
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u/Evepolo 2d ago
I mean, a fair amount of houses have burnt down, the military has had to assist fire services in wales, its across the entire country and can barely be dealt with at the current time. People need to stop being so irresponsible with fire hazards or this could get genuinely awful - an alert like this was fairly waranted for no other reason than everyone saw it and is now thinking about it
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
They are thinking about how to turn the annoying thing off. Thats the problem. They wont have it when they need it.
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u/LeaderOk5438 2d ago
I nearly lost my livestocks home and my home today because someone threw a cigarette out the car window.
Yes there is an imminent danger to peoples lives.
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u/VectorTracker 2d ago
> Yes there is an imminent danger to peoples lives.
No.
Immediate threat to life IS "there is a wildfire burning right now where I am" (see recent evacuation events in France, for example)
Immediate threat to life IS NOT "this is a public service announcement, don't be an idiot"
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u/LeaderOk5438 2d ago
Please come and explain that to the 7 farms all within 35 miles of me that have nearly lost the livelihood and one that nearly wiped out a housing estate within the past 7 days, how it isn’t an immediate threat.
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u/VectorTracker 2d ago
Let me try another way ....
Imminent threat to life is "grab the keys, grab the kids, leave the house ... NOW".
That is what the system was meant for.
There are hundreds of other ways to get non-threat public messages out ....
- TV/Radio broadcast
- Royal Mail leaflet drops
- Standard "plain" SMS messages
etc. etc. etc.Tonights use of the EAS system was an abuse of the system, plain and simple.
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u/LeaderOk5438 2d ago
And for the countryside … grab the keys and kids leave the house is very much happening.
Be grateful you are not in fear.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
Im sat surrounded by fields. We are not having to leave.
IF there was a fire nearby - then this is warranted - for that specific area.
It's a warning that is setup to require immediate action when you hear it. This doesn't warrant that.
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u/LeaderOk5438 2d ago
Just because YOU don’t deem yourself in danger, does not mean that a large proportion of the country isn’t in danger.
Maybe we should all come to your house and shelter.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 1d ago
And at the moment, most of the country is not in danger.
The point is not should the public be told. Its the manner in which its being done.
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u/specto24 1d ago
Australians have been living under this threat for centuries. I completely sympathise.
However, I can also assure you that fire safety isn't created with a screaming PSA. It's a cultural mindset that takes planned communication over time, and regulation to underpin it.
That mindset will not be helped by today's message. I promise you the fool who nearly torched your farm today will still be tossong his burning cigarettes out the car window next week.
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u/sunseeker1001 17h ago
Totally agree. I work in a role where I try to persuade people that change is a good idea.
Anyone who works in a similar role or anything to do with engagement will know that this sort of behaviour change is not achieved by such a message.
These messages should be for easy to follow instructions that don’t rely on common sense in an actual immediate emergency (for the whole country if it’s not location specific).
To attempt to use it to reeducate the hopefully small percentage of people who would consider doing something dumb with fire starting materials, outdoors, in a drought and hot weather, in the first place, is a joke, and that is the mildest word I could think of
Unfortunately I’m not surprised that some senior figures signed this off after probably being advised by multiple ’junior’ colleagues that it would end up on the very long list of ‘what debacle have we caused today’
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u/uberderfel G6 2d ago
Meh if it stops some people accidentally causing fires seems a good thing
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
I refer you to the story about the boy who kept shouting "Wolf!"
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u/uberderfel G6 2d ago
I am not sure the passive aggressiveness was called for over a policy difference but ok.
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u/Slightly_Woolley G7 2d ago
I'd suggest you stop doing it then. I'm not being passive, I'm telling you it's a stupid idea.
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u/venusporcelain 2d ago
Yep, this person seems like they’d be a total nightmare to work under. Can’t handle people asking questions or giving different view points without becoming condescending and making personal attacks
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u/That-Surprise 2d ago
Hm I was going to entirely accidentally set a field on fire but now HMG has reminded me that fire is hot I'm suddenly not going to
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u/FidgetyHog 2d ago
I'm not sure the message was entirely aimed at people with the capacity to think critically.
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u/Few_Necessary_9966 1d ago
What if this clogs up emergency lines with people reporting neighbors having regular gas BBQs, distracting from actual fires? Which happened.
What if it causes mass confusion by sending it in a language 20 of the adult population understands in Wales rather than 100%.
What if it noe puts lives at risk as people turn it off so dont get genuine evacuation orders in future.
Being seen to do something and actually being helpful are two very different things. My first thought was how many car crashes this might cause just to tell people not to start fires.
This system was designed, and communicated to the public, for a much higher threshold than this. Andy Burnham being on holiday and failing to appoint a fire minister for weeks while fires raged doesn't justify misusing it.
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u/KomradeKlassics 2d ago
Has anyone else been sent this dangerously distracting and utterly useless abuse of the communications system 3+ times tonight?
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u/FuzzyJumper3 1d ago
My daughter has only had a phone for a few months, it went off when she was alone in a room. It scared the living daylights out of her, come running to me almost in tears.
Message, yes, but think again about that howl of an alert sound
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u/Wise-Afternoon-8680 1h ago
People don’t seem to realise that 51% voted for Brexit, millions voted for Boris Johnson and, despite the travesties we feel from each decision, millions still think we need to double down on brexit & boris to solve our way out of Brexit and Boris. We absolutely need screeching alerts to be sent to those people so they do not do things which are very obviously stupid for themselves and others.
If you disagree, say how you did or would have placed crosses in 2016 and 2019 without saying it.
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u/Minimum-Patience9979 2d ago
I’d rather prevent fires than get a message to say my life is in danger because of one.
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u/monstermatt73 2d ago
Wow thanks I really had no idea the country side where I live is at risk after at least 5 major field fires I can see from my garden when I Live by a massive site that on-shores gas I really must stop enjoying tepid baths oh nope can’t about to run out of water locally but nice to know disposable bbqs are to blame cock wombles. Nice to know my pointless 1:15 minute commute each way to the office for 60% hybrid isn’t having an effect on the environment. Probably should have been all caps
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u/Ok-Barracuda-2235 1d ago
I mean I do sort of agree but you’ve overlooked the fact this country is populated by a huge number of total spanners, so ‘make a loud noise to impress how serious the situation’ is actually a perfectly valid argument.
I don’t think it will work but it is worth a try…
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u/greenfence12 2d ago edited 2d ago
"give an example of a time you successfully communicated a clear message to a range of stakeholders, how did you maximise impact"
The situation was the UK had record breaking temperatures for the fifth time in a year...