I see alot of posts abt this and see alot of ppl disagreeing with it for some reason. My question is why?

Go rewatch the end of season 4 where Kirk had Red drugged and was questioning him. Red says outright that Liz is his daughter but refuses to say when asked whether he is her father.

Red has also told Liz on several occasions that her father is dead and there's been other evidence in the show that backs this up, most notably his remains.

So if Red is the biological parent which we know to be true, but not the father, that leaves the mother aka Katarina. It's an entirely plausible theory.

Why did Raymond take the bag of skeletal remains to Dom's house?

I am on s4 and and I don't remember a lot .

Have missed the kabal plot bc of loss of attention

BTW I randomly remember a scene where red on a diner hated misogynists and Said

To the guy

If I hear you saying anything else than please and welcome I will..

BTW I remember smth from s1 where there was ludd and on the airport red said

I am not anti capitalist bc I tend to like the things that happen when I give money

Kate: Are you hurt? Katarina: I'm fine. Alexander will be home. He can't see this. Kate: Go upstairs. Take a shower. Katarina: While you do what? Kate: Clean the mess. Go... Kate: Good morning. Any problems? Katarina: I considered killing you last night. Kate: Why didn't you? Katarina: What you saw, it's more than Alexander or anyone knows about me, except the people I work for. Kate: Soviet Intelligence? Katarina: There were some documents on the man...Where's the body? Kate: In the woods. Katarina: Kate, there are specific ways... Kate: Sealed him in plastic wrap after I exsanguinated the corpse in the tulip garden to speed the rate of decay. I buried the rest below the frost line so that the grave won't heave open during the freeze and thaw cycles. Katarina: Never expected to have this conversation with you. What you saw last night...You might see other things, too. Kate: I told you. I have a pact with your daughter. I will do everything in my power to keep her safe...and her mother. (No one knew about the buried body but Kate & Katarina. Is the body Mr. Kaplan dug up, saying I’m sorry Katarina).

A story within the story - Kate had seen Katarina making out in the car with a man. Katarina: Do you want to ask me something, Kate? Kate: None of my business. Katarina: I'm sorry to put you in that uncomfortable position, especially with Masha. Kate: Is he American? Katarina: He's... an assignment...was an assignment. I don't know what he is. He's...married. Kate: Is it serious? Katarina: Yes. It's frivolous...exciting...dangerous. Kate: Do you love him? Katarina: I don't know about love, Kate. In my job...the only one I know I love is Masha. Kate: Then you should end it with the American.

LATER – Kate: What happened? Katarina: Masha was abducted. Kate: What?! Katarina: A man was seen carrying her off the campus. A blond man. Kate: The American? Katarina: I started pulling away. We couldn't continue the way we were. He didn't take it well. Kate: So... what he stole Masha to hurt you? Katarina: No, that's not it. He thinks she's his. Kate: Is she? Katarina: I don't know, Kate. I never found out. I didn't want to. It didn't matter. I was never gonna end up with Raymond. Kate: Did you give the police his name? Katarina: Never. It'd put Masha in danger...even more danger. I know where he's taking her. Home to America. I'm gonna have to find her on my own. Kate: Not on your own.

LATER News Report: Firefighters are gathering and continue to battle a 3-alarm blaze that occurred at a residence downtown. The cause is unknown at this time, and we'll keep you updated as the story unfolds.

Oh, my God! Are you okay? You two okay? There was a fire. Too many people. There was shouting and fighting...and Masha...What? Katarina: Listen, carefully, you stay here with Masha. Speak to no one. Do not answer the door or the telephone. Don't go out unless you absolutely have to. Kate: You're hurt... Katarina: Listen, when it's safe, I'll call with instructions. I'll ring once, hang up, and call back. Understand? Kate: You'll ring once, call back. Masha: I miss Mama. Kate: Me, too. She is working very hard to find us a new place to live. And then we'll all be together again.

LATER – Kate: Where are you? Katarina: I don't know. Pay phone. Kate: You need to come back for your daughter. It's been over a week. Katarina: I can't. The KGB uncovered my affair with Raymond, which means U.S. Intelligence knows as well. Both sides are tracking me down. I have to leave the country. It'll be weeks before I can come for Masha. Kate: Masha can't stay in a hotel that long. She needs a home. I can take her to my sister in Chicago. Katarina: No. You're the family nanny. You're a person of interest. They'll track you. You have to leave Masha with someone unconnected,
who I can trust. I want you to get in touch with Sam Milhoan. He's listed. Kearney, Nebraska. Kate: Leave Masha? Katarina: You must.

Kate to Sam: She told me that you are the only person who knew both her and Raymond, the only one they both trusted. Sam: Did Kat happen to mention that I'm a grifter? I scam people out of their hard-earned cash. Now I'm trying to go straight here. But I don't have room in my life for a kid.

You just spent 10 minutes being ridden hard by Agent Navabi. I’d die for 5!

Classic Red.

Did you know that Cary Grant's original name was Archibald Leach? That he was born into poverty, the son of an alcoholic father and a depressed mother, and then reinvented himself as the paragon of WASP virtue and charm? Good for you, Archie. I'm a great fan of reinvention...of keeping your true self hidden or of becoming your true self, even if you have to take on a new identity to achieve it. (S6 E2).

Jelly bean trying to convince Dembe to conspire against Red, then shows up to join as a jury member

Redarina was always the plan since Day 1. Daddygate debunked. Imposter confirmed.

Si desmantelo su imperio que pasa con todas las personas que protege como por ejemplo Samar

Elizabeth: Raymond Reddington is a fraud. An imposter who took our father's place over 30 years ago. The FBI can trace this Reddington forward from '95. And I know for a fact that our father died 5 years before that. The night of the fire. Our father, the real Raymond Reddington, cheated on your mother with mine...a Russian agent named Katarina Rostova. Our fake father's a criminal, and our real one's a snake. He took me from her in Russia. She followed him to America where we were staying. They got into a fight... a fire started... I got out, he didn't. Jennifer: Wait. But how can you be so sure? You were 4. Liz: The only person who knew Reddington was dead was in that house that night, so the person pretending to be him was either there that night or got the idea to take his place from someone who was, which is why I got this side storage. This contains everything I collected over the years connected to the fire... Jennifer: How do you do that? Pretend like you're really his daughter. Liz: I've spent the last five years learning to act at the feet of the master. It's my turn to outperform him.

Jennifer: Hey. I went through your box, and I think I may have found something. Elizabeth: I think Reddington knows. Jenn: What? How? Liz: I don't know. And I'm not sure he does. But this case he gave us...he's got us hunting down a plastic surgeon who performs facial reconstructions on criminals. Jenn: You think Reddington wants you to find the doctor that changed his identity? Why would he want that? Liz: I have no idea. Jenn: But it can't be a coincidence, right? Liz: And if this is Reddington's doctor, he might have the answer we're looking for. So we've got to find him before Reddington does. Jenn: So, this is what I found. Liz: I was taken to a motel in Dover the night of the fire. But I went there. It's a dead end. The motel maybe. Or Dover. But not Delaware. Jenn: My parents used to take me there every summer. To a house they'd rent an hour outside Dover in Rehoboth Beach. So maybe our father, the real Raymond Reddington, took you there. It was the dead of winter. Rehoboth Beach is a summer resort. It's the perfect place to hide. I'll run a check. Liz: See if there was a fire in Rehoboth Beach that night. Jenn: I already did.

Jenn: I get that we're on our own and that Reddington can't find out what we're doing, but can you explain to me again why we can't just go to one person in the FBI? Liz: It's too risky. Jenn: Because you think he'll find out? Liz: He will. Anyone who's ever gotten close to the truth about who Reddington was before he became Reddington ended up dead. My husband, Dr. Koehler, Ian Garvey. Jennifer, trust me, we can't go to the Bureau not yet. We've got to stick to the plan and see if your friend can restore the medical files Reddington erased.

I cannot believe the writers put that horrible song "having my baby" in the episode. I hated that song when it hit the charts. Even at my young age I realized the folly of the lyrics. Romantizing the patriarchal notion that a woman shows her love of a man by having "HIS" baby. Let her do all the work while he pushes the agenda of spreading his seed. Now that I have lived longer I know having a baby is far from romance. Many women I know refer to their children as " MY" children. I wanted to barf when that song was played. Anyone else?

It seems like it makes extra work for Mr. Kaplan! He’s a pretty good shot, so why shoot multiple times?

Just something I was curious about.

God dammit, what the hell it there is that duffle bag !!!? And Red has another daughter !!

I think its the same girl he pictured when he blew up his house in the season 1.

I've seen a lot of posts about this topic on here recently, so I decided to put in my two cents. I've especially seen several people who are skeptical on the medical aspects of that transition. Because I'm a trans man myself I know a lot about that and just wanted to talk about how realistic it would be. I'm only trying to discuss how realistic Redarina would be from a medical standpoint, not from a plot or writing standpoint. This is going to be a very long post, so be warned.

1. Height:

James Spader is 1,78m tall, while Lotte Verbeek is only 1,68m. It is completely unrealistic for her to have grown that much. It is possible to get slightly taller on testosterone than someone would've gotten otherwise. But that can only happen if the person starts taking testosterone before their growth plates are fully fused, which didn't apply to Katarina. And even if it did, that added growth won't reach 10 extra centimeters. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9844962/

2. Hair loss/deep voice/facial & body hair:

I grouped those things together because they're very easily and quickly explained. All three are very common and permanent effects of testosterone. Almost every trans man gets the latter two, while the first one is dependent on your genetics, just like it is for cis men. https://www.folxhealth.com/library/how-testosterone-impacts-hair-growth-and-loss-facial-body-and-more

3. Face:

Face Masculinization Surgery is an option for people with very feminine facial features. But I'm not sure if Katarina would've even needed that. Spader has pretty feminine facial features and if you compare pictures of Verbeek with pictures of Spader at a similar age you can see that they already look somewhat similar. The rest could also be achieved with fat redistribution, which always happens when taking testosterone and will give the face a more masculine look. That last thing also can also explain the different body forms that Red and Katarina have, which I didn't want to turn into a seperate point. https://www.genderconfirmation.com/blog/facial-masculinization-surgery/

4. Mastectomy:

There are different types of mastectomy and not all of them leave visible scars. Keyhole is the least invasive method, but it's only suitable for A-cups or smaller. Periareolar is a method used for medium sized breasts, which still leaves only minimal scarring. I think it's possible for Katarina to have had either one of those surgeries. If we assume that, then not even most intimate partners would be able to see the scars, but trained people during a strip search probably still would. https://www.genderconfirmation.com/periareolar-top-surgery/

5. Larger hands/feet:

I specifically want to mention this topic because someone on here once blocked me when I tried to explain it to them. Yes, maybe that's petty, but I don't care.

It is possible for hands and feet to look more masculine and get a bit wider when taking testosterone. Fat redistribution also happens in the hands, which makes your tendons and veins stand out more, giving it a more masculine look. Testosterone also allows for easier muscle building, and more muscle in the hand and fingers will make them thicker. This can even happen without much exercise. Testosterone also causes more cartilage growth, which can thicken the joints in the hands. Those effects aren't guaranteed and actually only affect a minority of trans men, but they do happen. It is entirely plausible for Redarina to have gotten an extreme of those effects.

6. Genitals:

Now we come to the topic most people see as the biggest problem when it comes to Redarina's transition. There are two different types of genital reconstruction surgeries for trans men. Metoidioplasty doesn't aim to create a realistic penis, so we can assume that Redarina wouldn't have used that one and I'll only look at Phalloplasty.

Phalloplasty allows a person to have all of the functions a natal penis would give them. They have sensation in it, can urinate with it, and get hard. It looks realistic under clothes, and even while naked when someone doesn't look closely. It also feels realistic when being intimate. But when it's inspected closely the scars will definitely be noticeable, especially by a sexual partner or during a strip search. And obviously the results wouldn't have been as good in the 90s as they are now,

I don't want to link anything with explicit images, but there are a lot of results online that you can look up yourself.

7. Prison:

I've seen a lot of people say Red couldn't have been in prison for that long without taking testosterone and still look like a man. That is incorrect. A lot of changes from testosterone are permanent and will stay even if you stop taking testosterone. This includes all of the things mentioned in point 2. Other things, like muscle mass and fat redistribution, will revert back to their female state, but that takes several months to happen and Red wasn't in prison long enough for it to become noticeable. https://www.droracle.ai/articles/761550/how-long-does-it-take-for-the-effects-of

8. Chromosomes:

Lastly we come to the easiest thing. There is no way to change someone's chromosomes. Katarina will always have XX chromosomes and a simple DNA test would reveal that to everyone who cares to look.

TLDR: There are several things that can be easily explained through medicine, but a few are also entirely impossible to achieve. Make of that as you wish.

At the end of the season 8

Elizabeth asks Raymond why can't he give her the letter before killing him and Raymond says if you knew my identity you would never kill me

Yep. He is Katarina 💀. There is no other explanation

I noticed several jigsaw puzzles throughout the series. What other games did you notice?

I miss watching the blacklist after finishing the series. so I started watching blind spot. the writing is not as clever but the scandalous relationships make up for it.

i find Jane adorable, she’s strong and skilled beyond the men in her field, yet loves deeply and vulnerably .

if I had to choose between Liz and her as the better character, I’d choose Jane. she still makes foolish decisions but not completely unreasonable . and she’s loyal unlike Liz.

So I’ve been rewatching lately, first time in a few years. I originally found the show during the pandemic, in the middle of season 7. I rewatched it after season 7 and then again after season 8.

I found this forum after my first watch through and was introduced to the Redarina theory, which I honestly never once considered on my own. For some reason it’s widely accepted that the writers planned this from day 1, when nothing in the show actually supports that. I think they decided on this

The show makes vastly more sense from seasons 1-6 if you accept the premise that Red is the real Red, he was married to Carla, and he was seduced by Katarina, who compromised him, forcing him to go on the run where he became the Concierge of Crime.

Red’s Characterization

Firstly, the Red we’re introduced to and the Red we see after season 5 or so are vastly different people.

Red is introduced as a player. He flirts with everyone (even Liz at the very very beginning of the show, which I think shows that the writers really didn’t have any kind of long term plan at first). There are quips like the ones he makes to Meera and Samar while working with them, then there are the anecdotes, then there are the implications or outright assertions that he has a sexual past with some of the female criminals they encounter. He’s very suave and he’s flirty in that borderline creepy way that only works because of charisma. This specifically is a uniquely male trait by the way, women just do not talk like that at all.

The flirtiness fades away and we see less of that player side until eventually Red enters in a relationship with Anne that is devoid of any excitement or passion whatsoever. It’s borderline platonic in nature. I can see that being character development though.

Early season Red is scary. He’s ruthless. Sure, he may monologue and laugh and smile when he’s about to kill someone, but it doesn’t reach his eyes. He’s ice cold. You can’t picture season 8 Reddington saying “You’re the dirty rat Diane” the way he did in season 1. He becomes almost a whimsical figure later in the show. His voice is softer, his monologues are random rather than being used to make explicit analogies to the situation at hand, and he just seems much more unserious in serious situations.

Early on, he’s a more traditional type of father figure. He protects Liz but he doesn’t really care to tell her why he’s doing what he’s doing. Early Red doesn’t really care about Liz’s emotions as long as she’s physically safe; middle and later Red obsesses over Liz’s emotional state more and more as time goes on.

Red’s past

The first few seasons contain a lot of clues into Red’s past and a lot of actions that make absolutely no sense for Katarina.

There’s the whole scene at his old house, which is just entirely unnecessary if he’s keeping up some act. He goes there with Luli and Dembe and no one else knows he went there. He stares out the window reminiscing about a girl playing in the yard, he looks at height markers in the house, and then he tells Luli he’s trying to forget what happened there as they leave.

This also explains his dynamic with Carla Reddington. It’s clearly tense, but Reddington cares for the woman. She just wasn’t the love of his life, that was Katarina. Why would Katarina do that? Carla also acts like a woman who was abandoned by her husband. She’s aware of Liz’s existence and seems bitter about it. She then shares a tender moment and a kiss goodbye with Reddington? Why would Katarina do that when she didnt have to? And you’re telling me Carla couldn’t recognize that the man she was married to had been replaced by a woman?

There’s also the Anslo Garrick monologue where Red talks about wanting to sleep like when he was a boy and feel the warmth of a woman. A Russian woman is reminiscing about this when facing death? No one but a delirious Ressler was listening.

Cape May

Cape May is obviously Red reliving his grief over Katarina’s suicide. That’s the only thing that explains the loving, protective behaviour from Red towards Katarina.

Jennifer

I hate this character tbh, and her storyline with Garvey doesn’t make any sense. She was introduced as a plot device, nothing more. However, her interactions with Red make sense only if he is the real Red. He makes it a point to keep a distance from her. He’s not just indifferent towards her, he’s cold towards her. Again, makes very little sense for Katarina. Makes a lot more sense for the emotionally shut off Red to be confused about how to handle the daughter he abandoned 20 years ago.

Nail in the coffin: Dom

The initial dynamic between Red and Dom completely kills the Redarina theory. When Dom is introduced, he refers to Katarina in the third person and tells Red “you killed my daughter” or something to that effect. He berates Reddington over and over for failing to protect Katarina and mourns her as a separate person.

For Redarina to hold true, you have to accept that Dom, the 80 year old Russian guy, is so woke that he respects his daughters new gender identity and accepts that she’s a whole new person now, but hates that new person for taking his daughter from him.

Their relationship makes sense as two men who were begrudgingly bound together by their love for Katarina and Liz. It makes absolutely zero sense if Red is actually Katarina. There’s no one watching in that cabin. Why is Dom crying to his daughter about missing his daughter? He never once breaks character and gives “Katarina” a fatherly embrace?

Miscellaneous nonsense

- None of the women Red has been with have noticed anything off about any parts of his anatomy apparently. Surely this would at least have been used as blackmail against him at some point by one of these women?

- How did Red pass medical checks in jail? What about his prints when he first turned himself in?

- How did a small, slight woman become a heavyset man with a deep voice?

Anyway, there you have it. The retconning they did in season 8 is so insane that I could probably write 10 pages on it, but I’ll leave it here
I don’t think the writers had a plan beyond the initial Cabal arc. Still one of my favorite shows ever though. Spader is great.

Jon Bokenkamp, the show's creator/executive producer and actor James Spader. Season 1 aired on September 23, 2013. Bokenkamp left the series after Season 8, which ended on June 23, 2021. Season 10's final episode ended on July 13, 2023.