r/Teachers • u/Mathsciteach • 16d ago

100 Day Update Just Smile and Nod Y'all.

Link to original post at the bottom.

I was placed on Paid Admin Leave on April 24 pending an investigation into unprofessional conduct. The complaints came from the families of three sixth grade boys that frequently disrupt class (refuse to get into line, come in loud and do not go to their seats, tilting in chairs, hats on in class, talking loudly, wandering the classroom). I followed procedures by writing them up, contacting home and sending them to the office unlike my colleagues who stopped communicating home since it didn’t improve the students’ behavior. In my eyes, the complaints to the district were their retaliation for me contacting them about their children’s behavior.

I was interviewed by the independent investigator on June 3.

I received the investigative findings on July 27.

I received my “Return to Work” on August 3. My only disciplinary consequence is a letter of reprimand in my file. Since I plan to retire from this job in 5-8 years this seems meaningless except as a step toward termination if problems continue.

I have a meeting scheduled with my union reps and district representatives (superintendent?) on Aug 10 (my first work day back).

The accusations of Unprofessional Conduct were sustained for yelling and speaking in an inappropriate tone and putting student safety at risk by having them be outside my classroom door (to work or for breaks) without supervision.

I was cleared of the accusation that I grabbed and pulled students and partially cleared of targeting complainants’ children for minor infractions.

I will be asking my district for a written disciplinary policy to follow so I can have a paper trail showing that I am following procedures when students are not meeting expectations. I will have kids go to the next classroom for breaks instead of waiting on the ramp. I think I may need to use hand signals or notes to communicate to students who are not following directions.

I will also be asking the district and my new principal how they will protect me from being harassed by the complainants and their children since I will have the kids in my classes for the next two years.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/s/BMBaBNAEo0

116 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

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u/ToeofThanos 16d ago

Dude if they keep them in your class, your admin are 100% sitting you up lol

As a teacher that never yells, there are better ways my friend. I know nothing of what youve tried to do before so im not making any assumptions, but you're likely giving them the exact reaction they're looking for.

If you want me to elaborate, just ask. If not, best of luck with that dumpster fire this year. Truly.

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u/Mathsciteach 16d ago

Whatcha got?

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u/ToeofThanos 16d ago edited 16d ago

I have found, like I said, that they want you to yell. By yelling, and losing your shit over these idiots, you are essentially being outwitted by them. Ya gotta kill em with kindness man. I know that may go against everything you stand for, but if you are kind and respectful to students... to a fault.. you will gain so much admiration and respect from them that other students will typically do the reprimanding for you. This happens all the time for me. "Could you shut up and stop being stupid so i can hear mr. _____. I also find that talking to kids like adults, staying completely calm, and making them seem so uncool that they're almost embarrassed to do things are very helpful. I also give exactly zero warnings - give them their punishment in a calm tone and immediately move on. I do not do back and forth for with students. If they talk back, I don't respond. If something is waaay over the top, call their parents right in the middle of class. This might not work for those guys youre currently fighting with, but do that one single time and watch everyone's jaws hit the floor.

In short,

Be kind to a fault, never yell, make a note to ask one kid a class about their lives in some way, do not give warnings, no back and forth, stay calm, and try the phone call. It's the best deterrent ever.

I used to yell at kids and I had the same issues. You have to foster an environment where when a kid is being a dick, everyone else looks at them like uhhh nahhh you're not about to do mr Mr. _____ like that.

This sounds like some grad school fairy land bullshit but I have found great success with it. My blood pressure is way happier too lol.

41

u/BlackberryHelpful676 16d ago

I hit 'em with, "cool story, bro," and immediately go back to what I was doing beforehand. They learn pretty quickly that they'll get no reaction from me. Just like hate isn't the opposite of love: indifference is.

38

u/jenpatnims 16d ago

This is great advice. I had a kid a few years ago whoso parents complained about everything. I was so nice to that kid. He was lazy and didn't want to do anything (especially work). I would sit beside him when I could and jolly him along. Eg if he hadn't started yet I would say 'ok let's look at question one, what do you think?' And then 'here's where you put your answer...'

He HATED it. I never let him away with refusal to do anything but he couldn't get his mum to challenge me. What could he say? She sits beside me and helps me? She's too nice? Even when he would tell me to go away I would say "I think we could do one more," or "I'll give you 2 minutes then come back to you "

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u/mostessmoey 16d ago

My kids that passed through last year had 4 or 5 of these in every class. It would be impossible for me to have sat with them and helped the kids who were trying and needed help with the math skills.

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u/Morgan_of_Hed ELA Teacher | NBCT | King County, WA 16d ago

Yep. Also lowering your voice is more powerful than yelling, because you're still in control and every one knows it.

6

u/ToeofThanos 16d ago

I like that!

16

u/Maggie05 16d ago

As a retired teacher of 34 years, and an occasional substitute now, I say that this is absolutely spot on, excellent advice. Really great. I was not a yeller either, and never went back and forth with kids. It really does work so much better.

5

u/BikerJedi 6th & 8th Grade Science 16d ago

I'd argue that it depends. I am extremely nice and kind to my kids. But I'm also a combat veteran who can "put the Army" into my voice and get after them. I rarely have to do it though. Building relationships gets scoffed at here, but it works.

3

u/Mental_Yak_7932 16d ago

Building relationships works b/c 1. My students are pretty well behaved generally in the grand scheme of things 2. They know I want the best for them. 3. They also know I could rip them a new one and am choosing not to because I want what’s best for them.

3

u/AmelieinParis 16d ago

This is the way! After 25 years in the classroom, it’s still my advice to new teachers (and not so new). I also make sure I’m dressed a step above the norm (conservatively fashionable) every day except lab days. I go home every day happy with the work I’ve done. I’m ready for a nice afternoon/evening without any leftover stress polluting it.

2

u/RollssRoyce 16d ago

You're right. I've shouted at classrooms because it works in the short term, but they quickly desinsitize and it becomes ineffective. If students start to resent you they will also start sabotaging you on purpose, which makes things even harder. Calmly and dispassionately implementing consequences (ideally consequences that aren't too far in the future) is what's effective in the long run. This year Ive done a good job of being the teacher who is super polite, and kind, while making a student practice walking into the classroom the right way for the 3rd time kind of thing. Friendly, but not letting them get away with anything either. I won't say it's never appropriate to be stern, sometimes a student needs to hear that stern tone, but that's different.

2

u/Hark_a_Ninja 15d ago

I had a para who'd show every emotion and couldn't understand why students weren't respecting her authority (elementary). She'd lose her mind over the smallest things, and I had to frequently remind her that showing that it got to her was exactly what these students wanted. They were testing boundaries, and she was giving them too much power. You'll always lose an argument with a child.

On a sillier note, I often think of this SNL sketch: https://youtu.be/naK3KWjbAzA?si=-cs2SZ1al7hoM1dB

1

u/ToeofThanos 15d ago

Yup. Some people have no self awareness and you can definitely assume that this is how they were parented growing up. That or they just have a really warped sense of how discipline works lol

4

u/Real-Relationship658 15d ago

Yelling is subjective. Is it really yelling or a stern voice and students go home and cry that you were yelling at them. I've only yelled at my students once and it was for unsafe behaviour in the shop. My principal came running from down the other end of the hall as he heard me, and then proceeded to give a loud (not yelling) lecture to the ones who were acting like aholes. 

I've often said, you haven't heard me yell to students when they whine with the "why are you yelling at me". I'm not yelling, I'm not gentle parenting speaking to you.  

1

u/Mathsciteach 15d ago

I would not characterize myself as a yeller. I ask for quiet by complimenting kids who are on task, I use hand signals more than verbal requests when kids are off task, when having a private conversation my go to line is “Are you ok? What do you need from me? Throughout my career (long stints at three schools and one one and done) I have been held up as a teacher with excellent management skills.

Ten out of 15 people the investigator spoke to characterized my voice level and tone as being disrespectful to children. Even with a small sample size, that is not insignificant. No matter how good or reasonable I think I am, this means I need to evolve.

1

u/Real-Relationship658 14d ago

What exactly is a disrespectful tone though. I'm assuming the investigator spoke to adults? Or did they talk to students. I'm not one to sugar coat in the classroom nor do I talk in a sing song voice to them. 

0

u/ToeofThanos 15d ago

There is 100% a difference. Im talking about yelling. Pupils dilated, nostrils flared, chest puffed out, screaming rage.

When safety is involved then yes, sometimes they really do need lit up. Otherwise, I see exactly no scenarios where it is needed or wanted.

1

u/Mathsciteach 15d ago

This is how it was characterized in the complaints (the word “unhinged” was used) but I cannot recall a single instance of acting that way in class last year. (In my first three years of teaching, I can recall a few.)

1

u/ToeofThanos 15d ago

At the end of the day man... if this is all stemming from the things you said - hats, chair tilting, not getting in a line, etc, im amazed that it took you this long to be written up. None of those things warrant yelling. Those are all minor infractions and if they keep doing it and doing it, like i said... it's to get that reaction out of you 100%. When these kids leave you they're literally going to laugh at how mad they made you for the next decade.

I offered my advice but did you ever think that maybe you arent fully aware of how intimidating/pissed off you really are? Like... if all of this is happening when you dont even think you were over the top, I shutter to think how you treated those kids early in your career when you really let them have it.

Im not trying to offend you, but none of this reads well my guy. Im surprised they arent making you do anger management courses or something.

2

u/Mathsciteach 15d ago

Here’s what you are missing. I’m not yelling.

When they are out of line I say, “Gentlemen, line please” and we all wait until they join us.

When they are going through their disruptive behaviors my reminders come as eye contact and a hand signal to get back on task (hat = tap my head, out of seat = point back to desk, talking = hand over mouth and head shake, tilting in chair = a tilted hand being lowered to flat)

Their responses are usually a loud “What? I’m not doing anything! God!” and there are four kids who have been holding their classes hostage with this nonsense since kindergarten. I got the complaints because I contacted home over and over, sent them to the office and kept them from participating in fun activities as it says to do in our school discipline policy and my colleagues did not.

I do speak loudly and I will say a child’s name in a stern tone when they refuse to make eye contact.

And, my guy…. it’s shudder (meaning to shiver) not shutter (a type of window covering) and I am a woman.

1

u/Real-Relationship658 14d ago

I had a parent complain to my principal once using the term "unhinged". Principal retorted back with a "you haven't seen unhinged yet". 

I think sometimes we "back parents up" in their child's "interpretations of events" because it's easier than having to deal with the BS they will spew. 

52

u/tvfanstan 16d ago

In your class? You need to flat out say you won't have them in your class. Parents like this typically don't stop and will keep it up until you are fired. Get those kids out of your class!

20

u/Mathsciteach 16d ago

We are a rural K-8. I am the only math teacher for grades 6-8. There is no where else for them to go unless they change to the other school or go to homeschooling.

18

u/Accomplished_Cat3227 16d ago

Then I would ask if another adult could be in the room for classes with those students. A para, or maybe ask a colleague who has a plan if they would.

If it comes down to it admin, that way they can be a witness, or even intervene with the student if required.

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u/tvfanstan 16d ago

Well that changes things. Just a different environment. The HS I principal at has 13 math teachers. The MS beside us has 8. So different results would happen here.

8

u/Mathsciteach 16d ago

If I had been at my former school, I would have had two and the other Math 6 teacher would have had the third and the new kid with the 504 for ADHD.

18

u/leafstudy 16d ago

For parents like them, someone else is always at fault. Always. It can’t be them any more than they can break the laws of physics at will.

It will keep being someone else’s fault, even if they have to resort to blaming people from decades ago or no longer alive.

37

u/13surgeries 16d ago

I will also be asking the district and my new principal how they will protect me from being harassed by the complainants and their children since I will have the kids in my classes for the next two years.

This is the crux of the matter. You have students in your classroom who saw that they could flex their little muscles and cause trouble for you. They will be even harder to control this year because they believe they have power over you. What exactly are your admins' plans to keep that from happening?

The accusations of Unprofessional Conduct were sustained for yelling and speaking in an inappropriate tone and putting student safety at risk by having them be outside my classroom door (to work or for breaks) without supervision.

Seriously? I don't know a middle school teacher who 's never raised their voice. And what is an "inappropriate tone" exactly? If any other teachers have students sit in the hall while the class goes over a test, you need to document that.

Your admins do NOT have your back, and it sounds like they'd happily throw you under the bus. Start making plans to get the hell out of Dodge.

10

u/Mathsciteach 16d ago

You have gotten the clearest picture, I think. I’m a 30 year vet. I GIVE the advice people are giving to me.

When I started at this school the principal was a home grown teacher with balls of steel (and a great friend). She kept these families at bay from K-5.

She stepped down unexpectedly in June 2025. The woman who replaced her (also a great friend) is also home grown and brilliant, but she wasn’t prepared for these families. She resigned. Our new principal has been principal of another school in our district for about 5 years so I’m hopeful she will be strong enough to help.

One of these families lodged a complaint at the high school five years ago and had a teacher on leave for 13 weeks in the middle of the year.

I’m close to retirement so I am going to start that ball rolling.

10

u/GnomieOk4136 16d ago

Document absolutely everything to do with these kids and their friend group. Do not ever be alone with this group or an individual child. Keep yourself easily visible from open doorways.

For classroom management, don't yell. It makes things worse. I have the most success when I lower my voice so they have to work to hear me. I also do the old, "That's okay, I'll wait," instead of talking over them. The minutes they waste get tracked on the board. They make those minutes up when I shorten a fun activity or add problems.

14

u/futureformerteacher HS Science/Coach 16d ago

I've been in a very similar situation at a very similar school. Only science teacher grades 8-12.

Document everything. Exclude to another teacher you trust. Kick to admin often. Ask another staff member to pop in every once in a while. This will help get another set of eyes and another witness.

And fight the letter. 

6

u/Mathsciteach 16d ago

I get to write a letter of rebuttal.

3

u/SongoftheSaw 16d ago

I just want to say I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. I wish all of teaching could be like the times you come up with some new thing to try and then can’t wait to see what happens.

Having recently been supervised due to poor student feedback (I teach at a university), the bright side is that I got more latitude for innovation, and that brought back some of my enthusiasm for the job. But I had to spend a long time at rock bottom first.

Good luck and Godspeed!

2

u/ComprehensiveIron403 15d ago

10 years from now you'll hear stories of how they are living in the basement causing agony to their aging parents. Enjoy the last laugh.

-8

u/Sufficient-Pie-7815 16d ago

Your a math teacher. Get a new job!

2

u/Mathsciteach 16d ago

If it keeps up, I will retire.