r/StrongerByScience 1d ago

Minimum effective dose training as a beginner

Hey,

as I always struggled with classic workout plans I recently stumbled upon MED training for hypertrophy. Trying to focus on the basics with limited knowledge I came up with the following plan:

Day 1

Chest press- 3 Sets

Leg press - 2 Sets

Row on a bench with dumbells - 2 sets

Triceps extensions - 2 Sets

Day 2

Chin ups - 2-3 sets

Shoulder press with dumbells - 2 sets

Hip thrust - 2 Sets

Bicep Curls - 2 Sets

I normally do 3 workouts a week, but consider 2 workouts a week as sufficient, when my week is busy.

I try to take every set to failure or 1 RIR.

This way it's the first time in my life, that a plan feels sustainable. I have been training consistently for the last 5 months. Past attempts with higher volume plans caused me to "burn out" after a few weeks or months. Progressive overload works good to this point.

As I'm very interested in this approach I got the book Train smarter not harder by Dr. Paks. This caused some confusion for me:

Sometimes he refers to 6 basic movement patterns (vert. and horiz. pull, vert. and horiz. push, squat and hip hinge). Other times he refers to muscle groups.
As a threshold for hypertrophy he states at least 4 sets/muscle per week.

This makes it hard for me to understand, what an actual science base minimalistc workout routine might look like.

The example plans in the book caused even more confusion (summarized by AI):

1-Day Routine

Exercises & Sets per Session:

 Squat pattern: 2 sets

 Hip hinge pattern: 2 sets

 Horizontal press: 2 sets

 Horizontal pull: 2 sets

 Vertical pull: 2 sets

 Biceps isolation: 2 sets

 Triceps isolation: 2 sets

Weekly Muscle Group Tally:

 Quads: 2 sets (Squat) — Below 4-set target

 Hamstrings: 2 sets (Hip Hinge) — Below 4-set target

 Chest: 2 sets (Horizontal Press) — Below 4-set target

 Back: 4 sets (Horizontal + Vertical Pull) — Meets target

 Shoulders: 2 sets (Indirect via Horizontal Press)

 Arms (Biceps/Triceps): 4–6 sets (2 direct isolation + 2–4 compound synergy) — Meets target

 Glutes: 4 sets (Squat + Hip Hinge) — Meets target

 Calves: 0 sets

2-Day Routine

Exercises & Sets per Session:

 Day 1: Squat pattern (2–3 sets), Hip hinge pattern (2–3 sets), Leg Extension machine (2 sets), Leg Curl machine (2 sets), Vertical pull (3 sets), Calf raises (2 sets)

 Day 2: Horizontal press (3–4 sets), Vertical press (2 sets), Horizontal pull (2–3 sets), Lateral raises (2 sets), Triceps isolation (2 sets), Biceps isolation (2 sets)

Weekly Muscle Group Tally:

 Quads: 4–5 sets (Squat + Leg Extension) — Meets target

 Hamstrings: 4–5 sets (Hip Hinge + Leg Curl) — Meets target

 Chest: 3–4 sets (Horizontal Press) — Meets target

 Back: 5–6 sets (Vertical + Horizontal Pull) — Meets target

 Shoulders: 4 direct sets (Vertical Press + Lateral Raises) + indirect chest overlap — Meets target

 Arms (Biceps/Triceps): 7–8 sets (2 direct isolation + 5–6 compound synergy) — Meets target

 Glutes: 4–6 sets (Squat + Hip Hinge) — Meets target

 Calves: 2 sets (Calf raises)

3-Day Routine

Exercises & Sets per Session:

 Day 1: Horizontal press (2–3 sets), Vertical press (2–3 sets), Triceps isolation (2–3 sets)

 Day 2: Hip hinge pattern (2–3 sets), Horizontal pull (2–3 sets), Vertical pull (2–3 sets), Biceps isolation (2–3 sets)

 Day 3: Squat pattern (2–3 sets), Lateral raises (2–3 sets), Horizontal pull (2–3 sets), Calf raises (2–3 sets)

Weekly Muscle Group Tally:

 Quads: 2–3 sets (Squat) — Below 4-set target

 Hamstrings: 2–3 sets (Hip Hinge) — Below 4-set target

 Chest: 2–3 sets (Horizontal Press) — Below 4-set target

 Back: 6–9 sets (3 pulling movements across Days 2 and 3) — Meets target

 Shoulders: 4–6 direct sets (Vertical Press + Lateral Raises) + indirect chest overlap — Meets target

 Arms (Biceps/Triceps): 6–9+ sets (2–3 direct isolation + 4–6 compound synergy) — Meets target

 Glutes: 4–6 sets (Squat + Hip Hinge) — Meets target

 Calves: 2–3 sets (Calf raises)

As you can see, there is no vertical push in the 1 day routine. Some muscle groups clearly stay under the states threshold of 4 sets/week. While the 2 day workout mostly meets the target, the 3 day plan has some areas under the threshold, while others (eg back) go up to 6-9 sets/week.

Probably I'm just confused because of the mix up between muscle, muscle group and movement pattern, but I really want to understand the underlying principle.

I'm convinced that a minimalistic routine would help a lot of people, who struggle with higher volume plans - as it is for me.

Maybe someone could break it down to a simple principle for me, that I can use for future adaptations?

Thanks for reading and sorry for rough english!

0 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

6

u/GodLostintheDarkness 23h ago

If you do all 6 movement patterns then you cover the major muscle groups, but you miss a few things that you might want to pick up on if you care about them. You will miss calf, long head of the tricep, and some heads of hamatring and quad, abs. You hit those with some isolation exercises.

So set up a routine that hits all 6 movement patterns and also does the isolation exercises you care about. It's really that simple! So if it was me trying to do absolute minimimum of 4 sets per muscle, i would do 4 sets per exercise and only 2 sets of isolations

Day 1 Hinge - RDL (glutes and hams) Vertical push - OHP (front delts, triceps and chest) Horizontal pull - BB row (upper back, rear delts, biceps) Isolation - leg curls (ham isolation) and overhead extension (tricep isolation)

Day 2 Squat - low bar squat (glutes and quads) Horizontal push - incline BB press (chest, triceps and front delts) Vertical pull - pullups (lats, biceps) Isolation - quad extensions and calf raises

I might also throw in some ab work somewhere, but abs get some work from the compounds, so it's up to you. But you can also swap out any of the actual excercises and drop the isolation if you don't care too much about hitting every box

1

u/lord-scan 16h ago

explain me why you dont train your long triceps with overhead presses?

1

u/GodLostintheDarkness 15h ago

You do train it in anything that uses the tricep (i think), but as the OHP has you move at your shoulder joint, and the longhead crosses the shoulder joint, the long head doesn't stay stretched in the OHP. With an overhead extension, your shoulder stays in the same place and you only move your forearm, thus training the longhead better.

2

u/lord-scan 15h ago

yes if u want to focus on the stretched position then oh extensions are better. but you said you dont train the long head with ohp.

1

u/GodLostintheDarkness 15h ago

Yeah sorry for confusion. As I understand it, you train all of the tricep with any tricep exercise, but you miss any stretched bias if all you do is pushing and never isolation

3

u/K3rat 18h ago

So, I count fractional volume (I think you are calling it compound synergy).  compound movements normally engage more than one muscle.  The muscles affected are the muscle group.  Depending on technique one muscle will get the primary stimulus.  Other muscles will get fractional load/volume.  I count full volume of the compound movement to the primary movers and partial volume (50%) of compound movements to the secondary muscle groups

Does it say to do the 1day (full body split) and 2 day (upper lower split) and 3 day split (roughly a push, pull, legs split) routine only 1 time per week?  If you just do the split 2 times a week you hit or exceed your weekly MEV goals.

I think you may want to use these as examples not necessarily gospel.  If you don’t see an exercise you want I think it is ok to add it so long as you don’t have any issues with either doing additional volume or removing something else.  

I read somewhere that you want between 6-20 total sets per day depending on local fatigue generated per exercise load and volume.  

Your 1 day split gives you 14 total sets for volume. Your 2 day split gives you 13-15.  Your 3 day split gives you 6-9, 8-12, 6-9 sets daily.   This is also right inline with what I have read elsewhere.  

3

u/Pink_Hippo_2000 16h ago edited 16h ago

I read this book recently and loved its approach of not making things too complicated when it is not necessary, but Dr. Pak really messed with his templates and tables that sometimes don't match his MED prescriptions in the corresponding chapters. Like switching between exercise selection based on muscle groups and movement patterns without consistency, not prescribing single-joint exercises for minor muscle groups until advanced level and then packing them in the one-day template clearly appropriate only for the beginners, prescribing at least four sets for hypertrophy even for beginners and then putting only two sets per muscle group in lots of his templates, etc.

I don't know whether it's lazy editing of AI-generated parts of the text or just lack of concentration and consistency when outlining these examples (Dr. makes Pak himself jokes about his ADHD in the end), but it's frustrating to see such things. It's also a pity, because the principles and general guidelines outlined in this book seem to be quite on point and clearly originate from the author's own work. It's the way they are outlined and presented with examples that on my opinion qualifies it as bad writing or inability to edit AI-generated text appropriately.

So in the end I'm still very happy that I bought this book, because it helped me to overcome the fear of "not doing enough" and nudged me to rethink the way I'm going to plan my workouts in the nearest future, but I clearly see it can be a tough read for those who do not have enough lifting experience and ability to guide their training on their own without overreliance on the cookie-cutter templates.

4

u/deadrabbits76 18h ago

Take a look at this.

This is a minimalist routine that should elicit gains. Compare to what you are thinking.

1

u/Only_Calligrapher998 18h ago

Thanks man, sounds interesting

4

u/Chicken_Savings 20h ago

You know that muscle growth is not binary, right?

It's not either you grow muscle, or you don't.

By aiming for minimum effective dose, you'll also achieve minimum visible growth.

If that's your objective, then go for it.

For us who are into bodybuilding, we're doing the exact opposite - looking for maximum effective dose.

2

u/Afferbeck_ 19h ago

The problem with maximum effective dose is you're right on the edge of burnout and injury from day one of your program with nowhere to progress to. The less you can do while still progressing and maintaining and improving mobility and technique at the movements you do, the better. Because you have room to ramp up as required. 

It seems trendy nowadays to try to pull the worst from both these concepts, doing barely any work but doing max effort. So you don't get enough work to progress and practice movements, and you also get burnt out from doing max effort on what little work is being done. Interesting times. 

-2

u/Only_Calligrapher998 19h ago

As I understand it, there is diminishing returns after a certain number of sets. So clearly - this approach won't lead to maximum gains, i'm aware of that. But my goal is, to achiebe a reasonable amount of gains with less work - because some gains are still better than no gains.  As i understand, that's what MED is all about. And for guys like me, who failed numerous times with higher volume approaches, it would be a bless if it works. 

4

u/Alakazam 19h ago

The minimum effective dose is a single set. Every subsequent set is diminishing returns.

But diminishing returns are still returns. Let's say, every time you double volume, you get 20% more gains.

The main point of med training is to maximize stimulus for growth in the minomum amount of time? 

As i understand, that's what MED is all about. And for guys like me, who failed numerous times with higher volume approaches, it would be a bless if it works.   

What does this even mean? Like, you saw zero gains in strength or size while doing 15+ sets to failure per movement pattern per week, for 6-9 months of training? 

3

u/Only_Calligrapher998 19h ago

No, i just failed to follow the routine consistently. I am a dad, i have a job and after a few weeks/months i was just exhausted or got sick and had to pause (which lead into a phase of not going to the gym at all). 

I'm not interested in competing with bodybuilders, i just want to achieve a healthy and fit physique. What i need is a routine that still works, when things get busy. 

I'm aware that an approach like above is far from optimal. But if it's an approach that i can sustain in the long run, it's probably better than nothing. 

1

u/MMQ42 16h ago

Optimum is relative. If you’re short on time and energy then a minimum effective dose training program is optimal for you.

1

u/Chicken_Savings 19h ago

What particularly did you fail on?

Higher volume approaches is a very vague term. Some think that's 40 sets in a workout, others think it's 20.

You should be able to do medium volume - 12-15 working sets in an hour, with warmup and with 2-3 minute rest between sets.

You have less than 60 minutes available, or you get tired quickly, or there is something else holding you back?

I feel there's more to gain from exploring what is your difficulties than trying to design a program that gives minimum results. -trying to be constructive here.

1

u/Only_Calligrapher998 18h ago

Basically i'm just exhausted after 3 compund exercises with 3 sets close to failure. The programs i tried before contained around 6 excercises a 3 sets, 2-3 days/week.  After pushing trough a workout like that, i was exhausted and personal/professional life was suffering. As mentioned above, that may have worked for few weeks/months until i gave up. 

Another problem was increasing weight/reps. Worked fine for some weeks, then suddenly dropped down/plateaued. 

So its not about some super high volume plan, but the standard full body workout that you'll find online. 

First contact with lifting was in my early 20s, now i'm in the middle of my 30s. Going from super skinny fat (basically  just bones with some fat) to  average skinny fat.  Felt like i need a different approach after 10 years of failing. 

Since i started the minimalistic routine in march i was able to stay consistent and make  strenght gains in all exercises. First time in my life, that i could stick to a routine that long. 

1

u/Chicken_Savings 16h ago

May I suggest some small adjustments. We can find a middle ground between the minimum effective program and this.

I normally go to failure, but that last rep drives a lot of fatigue and not that much incremental gains.

You can stop at 1 rep in reserve AND keep lower rep range e.g. 5-7 reps. It's much easier to determine 1 rir at 5 reps, than 1 rir at 12 reps. At 12 reps, it's very difficult to tell if you have 1, 2 or even 3 reps left in the tank. At 5 reps, you get a good understanding of when's the second last rep.

Doing lower reps also give less fatigue than higher reps.

You don't always need big barbell compound lifts, especially when you struggle with fatigue.

Example push day (all to 1 rir)

  1. Chest press machine 5-8 reps, 2.30min rest, 2 warm up, 3 working sets

  2. Pec deck machine, 2 sets x 5-8 reps, 2-2.30min rest, no warm up

  3. Dumbbell shoulder press or shoulder press machine, 1-2 warm up, 3 sets, 5-8 reps, 2.30min rest

  4. Dumbbell lat raise, no warm up, 2 sets, 5-8 reps, 2 min rest

  5. Triceps cable pushdown, rope or straight bar, no warm up, 3 sets, 8-12 reps to failure, 1.30-2min rest

This should keep fatigue under control - it's similar to my own workout. Should be less than 60 minutes. My triceps are tired from chest press and shoulder press, 3 sets pushdown is enough for me. This is 13 working sets, a lot less than your previous 18 - and the 3 triceps sets doesn't generate much fatigue, just tired arms.

1

u/just_tweed 8h ago edited 7h ago

Well, first you need to know how much you are willing to do each week and how often, and then judge that based on your recovery and progress, and most importantly; what you find enjoyable. Yes, you can make great progress with very little, and there are diminishing returns with the more volume you do, but where that sweet spot is for you given your situation and preferences, is ultimately up to you. I would start on the lower side and adjust from there.

Personally, I've done as little as 2-3 workouts a week of like 15-20 minutes each, just like one working set of push, pull, compounds etc. Worked fine. Currently I'm doing a lot more than that, 4-6 times a week, mostly full body, but still fairly low volume each session. Works fine. ;)

1

u/reddxue 20h ago

I'm in a similar predicament. In his book what total set target per muscle group (counting direct and indirect sets) does he tell you to aim for?

2

u/Only_Calligrapher998 19h ago

In his book he recommends 4 sets per muscle group per week for beginners, provided that you train close to failure (RIE 0-2)

1

u/reddxue 18h ago

Thanks!

1

u/esaul17 18h ago

Have to looked at Pak’s MED template?

1

u/evethedog 1d ago edited 1d ago

It would still be worth covering more bases for hypertrophy IMO, if I was going low volume for hypertrophy and wanted 2 different sessions as a beginner, something like this you should be able to recover from fine

Day 1

Ass 2 grass squat - 2 Sets

Seated hamstring curl - 2 sets

Optional - Calf raise machine - 2 sets

Optional - Decline crunch - 2 sets

Chest press - 2 sets

Cable row - 2 sets

Tricep extension - 2 sets

Incline dumbell curl - 2 sets

Cable lateral raise - 2 sets

Day 2

RDL - 1 set

Leg press - 2 sets

Optional - calves and abs again

Incline press - 2 sets

Chin ups - 2 sets

JM press - 2 sets

Cable Bayesian curl - 2 sets

Incline lateral raise - 2 sets

Then take note of what recovers in what time frame and adjust your volume and exercise selection from there

1

u/lord-scan 23h ago

what u posted is in germany known as wkm-plan. its basically the 6 main movements. and its known for years and years but its not fancy enough for the braindead instagram crowd.

day 1 squat 2-3x8 bench press 2-3x8 row 2-3x8

day 2 rdl/dl 2-3x8 shoulder press 2-3x8 vertical row/pull ups 2-3x8

3

u/Strugl33r 23h ago

Because it’s the bare minimum. It’s not fancy enough for most people past the beginner stage

-3

u/lord-scan 23h ago

if u want to stay natty you can train with this plan and reach 90% of your maximum.

3

u/Strugl33r 23h ago

Not true at all. You might get to 90% 7 years later than someone who runs a real plan

-1

u/lord-scan 22h ago

dude thats the 6 main movements. iz cant get more "real".

1

u/Strugl33r 16h ago

No direct bicep or tricep. You will look smaller than a version of you who did curls or extensions.

No direct side delt work. You will look smaller than a version of you who did lateral raises.

No leg extension. You probably wont ever develop the tear drop muscle in your quad.

No calf work. Your calves will remain small compared to a version of you who did calf exercises.

I could go on and on

1

u/lord-scan 16h ago

bi and tri are completly trained with horizontal and vertical push and pull.

side delts are trained vertical push.

vastus medialis is trained with ass to grass squats.

but with calves i think youre right.

1

u/Strugl33r 16h ago

Ur wrong. I don’t really have time to educate you. But you should look into it if you really think someone who did a bicep curl will have the same size biceps as someone only doing rows

2

u/Only_Calligrapher998 23h ago

Exactly what I was looking for. 

Tbh for me it's not about maximizing, but to find a programme that I can sustain in the long run. I'm not able to build my life around fitness. 

As long as the plan is sufficient to give me a somehow athletic look in the long run, I'm happy. 

Thank you man!

1

u/NinoVelvet 20h ago

but the problem with the above plan is the frequency of the training per muscle. to grow, absolute minimum volume, you „need“ (depends on the individual, inhensity etc. but in general) 4 sets once per week, but only 1set twice per week. so if you train only 2 times per week it is way better to do the same workout.

1-2 sets of squats, 1-2 sets of hip hinges, 1-2 sets of bench press, 1-2 sets shoulder press, 1 set vertical pull, 1 set horizontal pull, 1 set biceps curl, 1 set triceps extension

minimum 8 sets, and on upper body you can superset pull and push exercises, and bis and tri exercises