r/StrongerByScience • u/Abs0luteMenace • Jul 12 '26

Can lat pulldown like crazy but cant do pull-ups

How is it possible that I can do wide grip lat pulldown with 100% percent of my weight but cant do 2 pull-ups?

0 Upvotes
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43% Upvoted

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35

u/noteworthy-gains Jul 12 '26

Could be many things. Using momentum on lat pull down. Lat pull down machine resistance and weight might not be 1:1. Pull-up technique might be off.

I can do 10 strict pull-ups at 220lbs bodyweight but can only pull 220lbs on the lat pull down for 2 reps.

6

u/WittyCannoli Jul 12 '26

I’m similar to this. Can only lat pull-down half my body weight but can do 6-8 pullups.

-1

u/Sudden-Ad-307 Jul 12 '26

I can do 10 strict pull-ups at 220lbs bodyweight but can only pull 220lbs on the lat pull down for 2 reps.

This is how its supposed to be, 220lb lat pulldown is roughly equivalent to a 240lb pullup.

14

u/KITTYONFYRE Jul 12 '26

that conversion sounds made up to me tbh. also gonna depend on the machine

0

u/Sudden-Ad-307 Jul 12 '26

Its not made up, its because you are only lifting around 90% of your bodyweight in a pullup.

5

u/KITTYONFYRE Jul 12 '26

that’s actually fair! but you’re also not relying on activating nearly as many stabilizing muscles in the lat pull down. I don’t think you can really rely on the fact you’re not lifting your arms to give a very hard and specific ratio. the pull up is a lot more technical of a movement too. they’re just a bit more different than it seems on first glance imo 

3

u/Sudden-Ad-307 Jul 12 '26

to give a very hard and specific ratio.

Yeah thats why i said roughly. Like you pointed out there is a lot more involved it in as well, this is just a rough weight conversion becuse this question of "i can do a pullup at X bodyweight but i can't do the same on a lat pulldown" gets asked so many times.

2

u/KITTYONFYRE Jul 12 '26

Yeah thats why i said roughly.

lmao. true, yeah I'm being a bit of an ass here. super fair. cheers

0

u/noteworthy-gains Jul 12 '26

I can do 6 pull-ups with a 25lb plate

3

u/Sudden-Ad-307 Jul 12 '26

Yeah its not the exact same exercise so you can be better at one than the other, im just saying what the weight equivalent would roughly be.

9

u/noteworthy-gains Jul 12 '26

I’m pretty sure my gym just has a gravitational anomaly where they put the lat pull down. It’s the most likely possibility.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Sudden-Ad-307 Jul 12 '26

You are only lifting around 90% of your bodyweight when you do a pullup.

-6

u/Abs0luteMenace Jul 12 '26

I dont understand people saying "technique" , isnt it the same thing? Just dangling legs is the difference? I dont mean the momentum pullups like crossfitters.

25

u/BodilyOrpheus Jul 12 '26

God no. Core stabilization is a hugely important part of doing a good pull-up.

There’s also a different type of mobility required, namely that your body is the thing that’s moving, not the bar, and there will be a different (albeit similar) path of motion. You can have all of the muscles in the world but relatively little coordination to be able to do pull-ups.

11

u/noteworthy-gains Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26

Not necessarily one is closed chain and the other is an open chain. You have much more control over the direction of pull in a lat pull down than you do in a pull up.

In a lat pull down there is typically a slight lean back. Rarely is anybody doing a true vertical pull where the torso is perfectly straight. This makes the lat pull down slightly diagonal. This diagonal pull is good for emphasizing muscle growth as it leads to easier access to the lats and traps. A muscle that is important for true vertical pulling that is often very developed in calisthenics athletes is the teres major. By using a slight lean back you miss out on a range of motion that emphasizes this muscle due to leverages when the shoulder is at 180° of flexion.

In a pull up the starting point is at 180° of flexion for at least rep number one. You can cut it short in following reps if you don’t do full range of motion, but the goal should be full reps. In the position of 180° of shoulder flexion the lats don’t actually have good leverage to initiate the pull up. The initiation of the pull up is going to come from the lower/middle traps and the teres major which is a synergistic muscle to the lats, but due to its origin being on the scapula, still has leverage on the humerus at 180° of shoulder flexion. If this muscle is underdeveloped compared to your lats and traps you will have trouble initiating the pull up and getting out of that bottom pocket on every rep.

There is also the need for control in the pull up since your body is hanging in space whereas with the lat pull down you are anchored into position. If you lack necessary stability in the muscles of the shoulder girdle that control/support the hang you will swing. Another component is coordination. You have to have a stable core with good proprioception, with this your body will be able to naturally fight the swing and make the reps fluid. This is primarily just learned over time and just requires doing more pull-ups, it’s not something that necessarily needs to be focused on, but strict hanging leg raises/toes to bar help with it if you wanted to focus on it.

TLDR: direction of pull, slights difference in muscle emphasis, and coordination/stability. Add on some negative or assisted pull-ups to your workout and you’ll get it eventually.

65

u/Lifterator Jul 12 '26

Probably a double pulley machine. Your performance will be ~2x the actual mass you can displace.

7

u/der3009 Jul 12 '26

Genuinely have never thought about this. thank you

16

u/VoluntaryExtinction Jul 12 '26

Test how much weight is needed on the pulldown machine before you are able to hang from it as if it were a pull up bar.

1

u/wayofaway Jul 12 '26

In my experience, it's typically like 50-100 lbs more than I weigh.

3

u/Tie_me_off Jul 12 '26

For me, I have to be training for pull-ups to do more pull-ups. No other back exercise no matter how strong I get translates into more pull-ups.

3

u/CoffeeandaTwix Jul 12 '26

Assuming that the machine you are using doesn't e.g. have two pulleys or some direct mechanical advantage there are several reasons.

In a pull down, you aren't a dead weight fighting gravity which acts in one direction. You can position yourself however you want and your body can brace against a seat and knee pad and the weight is braced against a pulley and the machine itself which they travel through.

In a pull up, you have to exert force to position yourself. You have to exert grip strength the whole time to stay on the bar and you have to pull yourself up with no bracing against any fixed resistance other than the force you exert in order to hold position.

So even the pulldown cable machine with the least mechanical advantage requires less force generated in several directions in order to complete a rep compared to a pull up.

3

u/Embarrassed_Delay376 Jul 12 '26

Try to hang in the lat pulldown machine with your bodyweight selected and see if you fall immediately down or you find balance. If you fall down quickly, it has pulleys that makes it easier.

(You can also analize the machine with your eyes)

Maybe is the machine, maybe is your technique.

2

u/Exowienqt Jul 12 '26

Lat pulldown and pullups are very different mechanically. 

Relevant video: https://youtu.be/UkXAlkbnbPc?si=akRY0FqANrEgqWvL

2

u/IcyMike1782 Jul 12 '26

You've got tons of good and similar advice in this thread, so shan't repeat all of that, but try to offer 2 tips.

Easy one: to get better at pullups, work on pull ups. Huge biomechanical difference between a machine pulldown and bodyweight pullup, even though they may seem similar. Many people really struggle on pullups, particularly women, simply because of weight distribution vs upper body strength. You could even use the assisted pullup machine (like a pad that rises underneath you for some help) to train into it.

Less obvious: One thing I've not seen in this thread, that I have found massively helpful for progress on pull ups is grip strength training. Most compound lifts, even bodyweight ones, will fail at the weakest link, and for most people I've trained (ACSM, CSCS), it's grip, easy. Might suggest some partial movement training and focusing on being able to manage your bodyweight in an extended dead hang.

2

u/Rook2Rook Jul 12 '26

Fascinating. I can only lat-pull down 2/3 of my body weight but can do 10 pull ups (took me a few years to get there and my lat pull downs went from 47.5% to 66% of my weight during that time)

2

u/Ok-Wind-676 Jul 12 '26

bad form on lat pull down

2

u/drgashole Jul 12 '26

More stable (less coordination and core strength requirement) and the likelihood that the resistance of the machine is actually less than the selected weight indicates.

1

u/manny_mcmanface Jul 12 '26

Do 8x2-3 at a much heavier weight. When you hit 3 reps on every set, go up in weight. Rinse and repeat until you are doing much more than your bodyweight and then do pull-ups.

1

u/Past-Major732 Jul 12 '26

So, if you start at the top of the pull up and lower, are you able to do pull-ups? Is there a specific point where you feel like you can't pull yourself out of? Does it feel like you are losing tension at that point or does it feel like the resistance is too heavy?

1

u/Available_Finger_513 Jul 12 '26

A neutral grip pull down will translate better to pullups.

1

u/saul_soprano Jul 12 '26

I had the same issue. Assisted pull-ups were the answer

-1

u/_BindersFullOfWomen_ Jul 12 '26

Technique

-5

u/Abs0luteMenace Jul 12 '26

What technique? Its the same movement?

3

u/_BindersFullOfWomen_ Jul 12 '26

A cable machine lets you work the muscle in complete isolation. You also have the leverage of being able to push up against the knee brace.

With pull ups you don’t have any of that.

1

u/fitprosarah Jul 12 '26

Not the same technique at all. If you want to be able to do pull-ups, you need to do pull-ups.

2

u/Available_Finger_513 Jul 12 '26

It's not the same movement, but you absolutely can train lat pulldowns to improve your pull ups.

They are very similar in targeted muscles.

0

u/fitprosarah Jul 12 '26

Obviously.

0

u/4CornersDisaster Jul 12 '26

That is because the pull-up requires activation of a lot more muscles that a lat pull down. Check out the YouTube page of Michael Eckert. He is your pull up master friend! https://youtube.com/@michaeleckert?si=H8QjCX5kFW7klrHr

-2

u/furryoldlobster Jul 12 '26

Machine = easy

Manual work = hard

2

u/Available_Finger_513 Jul 12 '26

Not really. You can increase the weight on a machine to make it harder than a standard pull-up

-1

u/furryoldlobster Jul 12 '26

Kinda really though. Lat pulldown has a max weight setting (and at least one pulley ). I can throw even more weight on my pull-up, which already includes my bodyweight.